Political Crossfire Forums

[Boneman]

mendosan wrote: Boneman wrote: Ssushi wrote: LONDON, England (AP) -- One in six British Muslims believes the London Tube and bus bombers were motivated by a just cause, according to an opinion poll.

Sixteen percent of respondents to the poll conducted ........ felt the July 7 bombers' cause -- although not their actions -- was just.

Thirteen percent said the bombers should be regarded as martyrs, and 7 percent felt suicide attacks on British civilians were justified in some circumstances.

HOw can we be in a position where this sort of opinion is felt withing the country?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/04/uk.muslims.just.ap/index.html
Unless it asked Britains several million muslims what tehy thought of the bombing, i really don't see how it can be used as evidence of muslims hating our guts. Opinion polls are pathetically easy to manipulate, one poll means absolutley nothing. I am positive I can go and do a poll which stated that 99% of english people were in fact the queen. And as for your last sentence, its that we allow them to think these things which differentiates britian from whichever middle eastern **** they origonally come from.

He means what have we done and what have they not done for some people to feel that way, you can't just discredit polls if the poll said the opposite thing you would be supporting it, look at the questions asked then point out the bits you think were leading the participant on.
I never trust opinion polls, they are ridiculously easy to manipulate.

[Lucky Luke]

mendosan wrote: Quote: What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

What was the motivation of the IRA? what were there aims? what were the reasons they comitted there crimes? their motiation wasn't based on a perverted religious ideoligy, they had a political aim (a united Ireland). so you can't compare the two.

What make you think Al-Qaeda hasn't got a political aim or that the IRA was a multi-faith movement that did not believe in the Catholic religion being the official religion for the whole of Ireland?

:-D
:-D

[De Bhaldraithe]

I stopped reading this thread from about 4 or 5 posts in because it brought up the usual ****.

But can I ask a serious question?

Who defines terrorism?

Can someone tell me the difference between a man going into a tube station and akilling say thirteen people and a mann or four going into a village of maybe 30 people (those being women and children), raping them and killing them, cold blooded.

Is there a proper definition for terrorism? Is the Bristish and US terrorism legal?

[bob.appleyard]

mendosan wrote: Quote: What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

What was the motivation of the IRA? what were there aims? what were the reasons they comitted there crimes? their motiation wasn't based on a perverted religious ideoligy, they had a political aim (a united Ireland). so you can't compare the two.

You can argue that the establishment of a new caliphate is a poltical aim. The perversion in their religion is that they consider politics and religion to be one and the same thing.

[bob.appleyard]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: I stopped reading this thread from about 4 or 5 posts in because it brought up the usual ****.

But can I ask a serious question?

Who defines terrorism?

Can someone tell me the difference between a man going into a tube station and akilling say thirteen people and a mann or four going into a village of maybe 30 people (those being women and children), raping them and killing them, cold blooded.

Is there a proper definition for terrorism? Is the Bristish and US terrorism legal?

There is a definition of terrorism that, at least nominally, the US and Britain subscribe to. However, seriously contemplating this defintion would require a cold, hard look in the mirror for our leaders (exclusive our, damn the English language).

[Lucky Luke]

bob.appleyard wrote: mendosan wrote: Quote: What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

What was the motivation of the IRA? what were there aims? what were the reasons they comitted there crimes? their motiation wasn't based on a perverted religious ideoligy, they had a political aim (a united Ireland). so you can't compare the two.

You can argue that the establishment of a new caliphate is a poltical aim. The perversion in their religion is that they consider politics and religion to be one and the same thing.

Some would consider that the IRA was about making the whole of Ireland a Catholic nation, Al Qaeda is certainly not the only group to consider politics and religion to be one and the same thing. Bliar and Bush always claimed that at the end of the day they are guided by god and ultimatly only answerable to that god for their political actions on earth.
:-D
:-D

[bob.appleyard]

Lucky Luke wrote: Some would consider that the IRA was about making the whole of Ireland a Catholic nation, Al Qaeda is certainly not the only group to consider politics and religion to be one and the same thing. Bliar and Bush always claimed that at the end of the day they are guided by god and ultimatly only answerable to that god for their political actions on earth.

Yeah, urgh, absolutist codswallop. Though Blair does sometimes put a secular spin on it: "history" will judge him. Yeah, it'll judge him to be an idiot.

[DSwain]

De Bhaldraithe wrote: I stopped reading this thread from about 4 or 5 posts in because it brought up the usual ****.

But can I ask a serious question?

Who defines terrorism?

Can someone tell me the difference between a man going into a tube station and akilling say thirteen people and a mann or four going into a village of maybe 30 people (those being women and children), raping them and killing them, cold blooded.

Is there a proper definition for terrorism? Is the Bristish and US terrorism legal?

Age old problem of one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. If you ever listen to the BBC World Service (which I do) you rarely - if ever - hear the word 'terrorist' or 'terrorism' used.

I would define terrorism as an act or acts of violence committed to subvert the rule of law. In that way there is a difference between the murders in London on July 7th and murders committed by Coalition forces in Iraq.

What acts of American and British 'terrorism' do you refer to btw?

[mendosan]

Lucky Luke wrote: mendosan wrote: Quote: What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

What was the motivation of the IRA? what were there aims? what were the reasons they comitted there crimes? their motiation wasn't based on a perverted religious ideoligy, they had a political aim (a united Ireland). so you can't compare the two.

What make you think Al-Qaeda hasn't got a political aim or that the IRA was a multi-faith movement that did not believe in the Catholic religion being the official religion for the whole of Ireland?

:-D
:-D

First your assuming that the London bombers were part of Al-Qaeda, second your Ignoring the fact that the IRA was had a secular political aim (a united Ireland) attempts to say IRA terrorism and Islamic terrorism are similar is pathetic.

[mendosan]

Quote: There are those who in the interests of community relations denounce linking the word Islamic to “violence” or “extremism”. They object that we did not call the IRA “Catholic terrorists”, nor do we speak of “Christian extremism” or link Christian fundamentalism to violence.

There are good reasons for that. Although the IRA is rooted in the Catholic community, its aims are political and secular. Although there certainly are Christian extremists today, just now they are not murdering people in the name of purifying the world. By contrast, across the globe human beings are being slaughtered in large numbers by Muslims quoting from the Koran and vowing death to infidels, including other Muslim sects. Their objectives are political and religious.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,24392-2261812,00.html

This is sort of what I meant but worded better.

[AKAMad]

mendosan wrote: Quote: There are those who in the interests of community relations denounce linking the word Islamic to “violence” or “extremism”. They object that we did not call the IRA “Catholic terrorists”, nor do we speak of “Christian extremism” or link Christian fundamentalism to violence.

There are good reasons for that. Although the IRA is rooted in the Catholic community, its aims are political and secular. Although there certainly are Christian extremists today, just now they are not murdering people in the name of purifying the world. By contrast, across the globe human beings are being slaughtered in large numbers by Muslims quoting from the Koran and vowing death to infidels, including other Muslim sects. Their objectives are political and religious.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,24392-2261812,00.html

This is sort of what I meant but worded better.

This Historical Analogy game that everyone insists on playing always comes unstuck if it is pushed too far.

[Lucky Luke]

mendosan wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: mendosan wrote: Quote: What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

What was the motivation of the IRA? what were there aims? what were the reasons they comitted there crimes? their motiation wasn't based on a perverted religious ideoligy, they had a political aim (a united Ireland). so you can't compare the two.

What make you think Al-Qaeda hasn't got a political aim or that the IRA was a multi-faith movement that did not believe in the Catholic religion being the official religion for the whole of Ireland?

:-D
:-D

First your assuming that the London bombers were part of Al-Qaeda, second your Ignoring the fact that the IRA was had a secular political aim (a united Ireland) attempts to say IRA terrorism and Islamic terrorism are similar is pathetic.

First the London bombers were associated with Al Qaeda, that we know now and second Ireland is no secular country. The IRA and AL Qaeda have a religious agenda even if the IRA was always closer to the PLO than any other Muslim organisation.

:-D
:-D