Political Crossfire Forums

[bob.appleyard]

A year ago today, Britain was hit by a terrorist attack from homegrown Islamic militants. A police report leaked today showed that, as Londoners at the time feared, it was primarily our foreign policy which made us a target. A video of one of the bombers, released by Al Qua'ida, underlined this fact by claiming that his act was "only the beginning of a string of attacksthat will continue and become stronger until you pull your forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq." Since that day last year, several warnings have emerged, police have attempted to foil several other plots (though it appears, at least in their last publicised attempts, that they have not produced anything but some angry innocent Muslims), and we continue to be a target.

Meanwhile, websites such as www.julyseventh.co.uk have demanded a public enquiry into the day, due to the alleged holes in the official story. These incongruities have led to conspiracy theories along the lines of all the 9/11 nonsense that the 'net has produced.

One thing that the authorities will not admit publicly, however, is that these attacks are not an "assault on our way of life," but an attack on the government, using the cowardly, and thus far inneffective route, of threats and attacks on the British population.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1814684,00.html
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_21226847.shtml
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1612892

[Boneman]

If it was caused by our foreign policy, I think the public would reinforce their backing of it, if only to piss off the terrorists.

[bob.appleyard]

Boneman wrote: If it was caused by our foreign policy, I think the public would reinforce their backing of it, if only to piss off the terrorists.

That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face, though, surely?

[mendosan]

I don't think our foreign policy was the sole reason for the attacks, but it defiantly contributed to it. I think we all know why it happend and the inqury would just point out the blindingly obvious.

I think that the people calling for Inquires are only doing it for there own conceited purposes, The victims want someone or something to blame (totally understandable), Lib dems want political capital from a Iraq link, Muslim community want to blame the government instead of admitting some crazy stuff is happening in there community, Torys want to discredit the government (because they can't make capital out of Iraq link).

[Boneman]

bob.appleyard wrote: Boneman wrote: If it was caused by our foreign policy, I think the public would reinforce their backing of it, if only to piss off the terrorists.

That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face, though, surely?
The sun reading public is like that.

[DSwain]

Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

[Lucky Luke]

DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

[DSwain]

Lucky Luke wrote: DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

Nor does the government now. Try to read what the Prime Minister actually says as opposed to what Shalloway tells you to think.

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

KEEP SMILING!!!

[AKAMad]

DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

Of course, terrorists are criminals and murderers, but understanding the motivation of your enemy is good strategy. It is only frightened Americas that call it treason. We should avoid that trap.

[AKAMad]

Lucky Luke wrote:
The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

That it not quite true, remember Ireland in the 1960s & 70s wasn't as secular as it now.

[DSwain]

AKAMad wrote: DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

Of course, terrorists are criminals and murderers, but understanding the motivation of your enemy is good strategy. It is only frightened Americas that call it treason. We should avoid that trap.

I take your point - just so long as understanding their motivation as a means to defeat terrorists is the order of the day, and not a means of offering justification for their actions (which I'm not suggesting you are but some do).

[Lucky Luke]

DSwain wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

Nor does the government now. Try to read what the Prime Minister actually says as opposed to what Shalloway tells you to think.

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

KEEP SMILING!!!

I think Galloway is on holidays but Bliar clearly stated that the Muslim community has a duty to sort out the problem and not Bliar's government.

Never such request has been made to the Catholic community during the troubles, never.

:-D
:-D

[Lucky Luke]

AKAMad wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

That it not quite true, remember Ireland in the 1960s & 70s wasn't as secular as it now.

I was talking about the Muslim community in Britain to be compared to the Catholic community in Britain, not abroad AKAMad.

Pakistan isn't secular.

:-D
:-D

[AKAMad]

Lucky Luke wrote: AKAMad wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

That it not quite true, remember Ireland in the 1960s & 70s wasn't as secular as it now.

I was talking about the Muslim community in Britain to be compared to the Catholic community in Britain, not abroad AKAMad.

Pakistan isn't secular.

:-D
:-D

That was because the IRA didn't go to Church, they knew their position on blowing up children, and so did the English.

The Irish experience is the reason why Britain is the best 'white' country in the World to be a Muslim.

[Lucky Luke]

AKAMad wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: AKAMad wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
The governments at the time never claimed that the IRA wanted to take over the way we live or blamed the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and the Catholic community each time a bomb went off.

:-D
:-D

That it not quite true, remember Ireland in the 1960s & 70s wasn't as secular as it now.

I was talking about the Muslim community in Britain to be compared to the Catholic community in Britain, not abroad AKAMad.

Pakistan isn't secular.

:-D
:-D

That was because the IRA didn't go to Church, they knew their position on blowing up children, and so did the English.

The Irish experience is the reason why Britain is the best 'white' country in the World to be a Muslim.

The IRA did go to church to hide their weapons and yet nobody blamed the church, the faith or the community.

The UK is not secular, I wish for Scotland to be.
:-D
:-D

[mendosan]

Quote: The IRA did go to church to hide their weapons and yet nobody blamed the church, the faith or the community.

The UK is not secular, I wish for Scotland to be.

I think you will find that they blamed all three at some point, or do you think the Muslim community should do nothing to get rid of the Cancer they have so far let grow?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

[Lucky Luke]

mendosan wrote: Quote: The IRA did go to church to hide their weapons and yet nobody blamed the church, the faith or the community.

The UK is not secular, I wish for Scotland to be.

I think you will find that they blamed all three at some point, or do you think the Muslim community should do nothing to get rid of the Cancer they have so far let grow?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

What did the Catholic community do during the troubles Mendosan and what did we ask them to do, I can't recall.

:-D
:-D

[bob.appleyard]

DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

It's not to misrepresent the terror attacks as an "assault on our way of life," however. The actions of these terrorists are cowardly and disgusting, just like those of the IRA. To pretend that the bombings would have been perpetrated had we not participated in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq is lunacy, though Blair continues to do so.

He also insists on it being a problem for the "Muslim community" to sort out on its own, when he is as responsible for its occurence.

I do remember participating in the largest peaceful disagreement (both in terms of numbers and in terms of proportion) this country has ever seen, before the invasion took place. This act was totally inneffective in curbing their rush to war.

[Showboat]

bob.appleyard wrote: DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

It's not to misrepresent the terror attacks as an "assault on our way of life," however. The actions of these terrorists are cowardly and disgusting, just like those of the IRA. To pretend that the bombings would have been perpetrated had we not participated in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq is lunacy, though Blair continues to do so.

He also insists on it being a problem for the "Muslim community" to sort out on its own, when he is as responsible for its occurence.

I do remember participating in the largest peaceful disagreement (both in terms of numbers and in terms of proportion) this country has ever seen, before the invasion took place. This act was totally inneffective in curbing their rush to war.

Blair went to war because it gives him a bigger chapter in the future's history books. Quite simply he's a cnut. And now he's blaiming everyone else for the backlash because he's a cnut. Blair loves sucking up to America because it makes him feel more important and because of that he's a cnut. Although we live in a democracy Blair will go against the will of the people because he thinks we are incapable of knowing what's good for us and he knows better, that makes him a cnut.

Oh and did I mention he's a cnut?

[DSwain]

bob.appleyard wrote: DSwain wrote: Well if we conducted policy on the basis of how many bombs are going off, then we'd have left Northern Ireland a long time ago. The job of government is to conduct what it feels to be the right policy and then to employ police and intelligence services to combat those who violently disagree. Those who wish to make legal and peaceful protest have lots of opportunity. The July 7th bombers were criminals and murderers, not misunderstood youth or trenchant political commentators.

It's not to misrepresent the terror attacks as an "assault on our way of life," however. The actions of these terrorists are cowardly and disgusting, just like those of the IRA. To pretend that the bombings would have been perpetrated had we not participated in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq is lunacy, though Blair continues to do so.

He also insists on it being a problem for the "Muslim community" to sort out on its own, when he is as responsible for its occurence.

I do remember participating in the largest peaceful disagreement (both in terms of numbers and in terms of proportion) this country has ever seen, before the invasion took place. This act was totally inneffective in curbing their rush to war.

Government doesn't do its work and make decisions according to how many people go on a demonstration and nor should it. Peaceful demonstration plays an important part in the democratic process - but it's only one part and it isn't the sole factor. I didn't join your demonstration because I didn't agree with you and as some 58 million people also didn't join I can only assume that at least SOME of them agreed with me - who speaks for us?

I cannot disagree with you more fundamentally - Tony Blair is not responsible for the murder of 52 people on July 7th, the bombers were.