Political Crossfire Forums

[topnut]

Go to hell?

This part of the whole God thing has confused me.

He says he loves us but we have to worship him.

My parents love me, but I don't WORSHIP them, I respect them. I don't think you can love someone and then force them to WORSHIP you.

It's pretty simple logic.

It's like saying I love you but kiss my ass or you're going to hell.

Oh well, Christians never use common sense when they think about their religion. Hell, Christians never think period.

[Hyde]

i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

[Askim]

ya straight up!! Its like... Hey you gimme your s**t!!! If you dont you will be sorry!! Straight up scare tactics. thats what its all about. Being subjegated by fear and suspending rational thought and common sense in exchange for faith based beliefs.

[Hyde]

Askim wrote: ya straight up!! Its like... Hey you gimme your s**t!!! If you dont you will be sorry!! Straight up scare tactics. thats what its all about. Being subjegated by fear and suspending rational thought and common sense in exchange for faith based beliefs.

tru dat. i know first hand how they try to scare you into joining them by using things like "you'll go to hell if you dont". what kind of bases for a relgion is fear? not a very good one i'll tell you that.

[topnut]

Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

[Hyde]

topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

[Praetorian]

Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

Wow. Make that statement a little more grammatically accurate, and it is exactly what I would say. :wink:

I guess it depends on your personal definition of worship.
Personally, I believe that God is like an extention of my parents. Of course someone is going to say "Your parents are the extention of God." Yeah, but that doesn't serve my explanation as well as the former statement. Anyway, I see God as a father who helps me, shields me, loves me. In return, I love him back as I do my earthly father. I tell my dad I love him all the time, just like I tell God. And I personally believe that is what He wants.

I think the bible, though reflective of God's wishes, is skewed. I believe it reflects the times in its wording. The point of religion in those times (and now) is to get as many followers as possible. Back then, it meant greater numbers and more ways to be powerful. Now, it equates to money. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You need money to run a church, and if you don't have the member numbers, it gets hard to support a church. I know. I was fourth generation in a New Orleans church that was expensive to maintain and there were only about six or seven regular members. But that is a complicated story for another discussion.

So I follow the teachings of the bible, but I keep it in perspective. Otherwise, if I take each passage literal and verbatim, I feel like I am studying Greek and Roman mythology.

[Hyde]

Praetorian wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

Wow. Make that statement a little more grammatically accurate, and it is exactly what I would say. :wink:

sorry :!oops: i was in a rush.

Quote:
I guess it depends on your personal definition of worship.
Personally, I believe that God is like an extention of my parents. Of course someone is going to say "Your parents are the extention of God." Yeah, but that doesn't serve my explanation as well as the former statement. Anyway, I see God as a father who helps me, shields me, loves me. In return, I love him back as I do my earthly father. I tell my dad I love him all the time, just like I tell God. And I personally believe that is what He wants.

i have to disagree. i think that God is more than a "father figure".

Quote: I think the bible, though reflective of God's wishes, is skewed. I believe it reflects the times in its wording. The point of religion in those times (and now) is to get as many followers as possible. Back then, it meant greater numbers and more ways to be powerful. Now, it equates to money. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You need money to run a church, and if you don't have the member numbers, it gets hard to support a church. I know. I was fourth generation in a New Orleans church that was expensive to maintain and there were only about six or seven regular members. But that is a complicated story for another discussion.

i sort of agree with that. the only thing is that it is not only the time that skewed it but the people who rewrote it. think about all of the scribes who wrote and rewrote the bible and its books before printers where invented. some of them had to have changed certain parts to fit either their beliefs or their goverments beliefs.

Quote: So I follow the teachings of the bible, but I keep it in perspective. Otherwise, if I take each passage literal and verbatim, I feel like I am studying Greek and Roman mythology.

dito. i don't think the bible was meant to be taken as literal text.

[LetsGetReal]

Praetorian wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

Wow. Make that statement a little more grammatically accurate, and it is exactly what I would say. :wink:

I guess it depends on your personal definition of worship.
Personally, I believe that God is like an extention of my parents. Of course someone is going to say "Your parents are the extention of God." Yeah, but that doesn't serve my explanation as well as the former statement. Anyway, I see God as a father who helps me, shields me, loves me. In return, I love him back as I do my earthly father. I tell my dad I love him all the time, just like I tell God. And I personally believe that is what He wants.

I think the bible, though reflective of God's wishes, is skewed. I believe it reflects the times in its wording. The point of religion in those times (and now) is to get as many followers as possible. Back then, it meant greater numbers and more ways to be powerful. Now, it equates to money. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You need money to run a church, and if you don't have the member numbers, it gets hard to support a church. I know. I was fourth generation in a New Orleans church that was expensive to maintain and there were only about six or seven regular members. But that is a complicated story for another discussion.

So I follow the teachings of the bible, but I keep it in perspective. Otherwise, if I take each passage literal and verbatim, I feel like I am studying Greek and Roman mythology. Such jaded perspectives I see from so many people. No one has tried to scare me into believing it just happened. No one forces me to give money but I want to. No one forces me to obide by every law, but I try to. You guys truly don't understand what the spirit of christianity is. You don't know too much about the bible or the message it portrays and for you guys to go along(except prae) bashing it, is to just show your ignorance. I really would like you guys to speak on a personal level with John and Cap you will learn so much it will overwhelm you. I use to think that giving money to church was somehow bad so I didn't, but when I started to do it I've felt so much better, and happier in my life. Now I'm not telling you go give your paycheck to the church, all I'm saying is that I once thought that same way, but after taking a step back God showed me the error of my ways. And trust me I already know your responses it wouldn't be the first time I've heard them and I'm sure not the last.

[LetsGetReal]

Hyde wrote: dito. i don't think the bible was meant to be taken as literal text. So as a fictional story to portray truth? Where did this truth come from but real life experiences of it?

[Hyde]

LetsGetReal wrote: Hyde wrote: dito. i don't think the bible was meant to be taken as literal text. So as a fictional story to portray truth? Where did this truth come from but real life experiences of it?

no. i am talking about things that were metophorical but people take literal. things like revelations. i guess i worded that wrong. my bad.

[topnut]

LetsGetReal wrote: Hyde wrote: dito. i don't think the bible was meant to be taken as literal text. So as a fictional story to portray truth? Where did this truth come from but real life experiences of it?

So Jonah lived in a whale for three days, right? LMAO :shifty:

[topnut]

Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship.

[Hyde]

topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship. so your saying our creator is insucure or that people have it wrong?

[topnut]

Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship. so your saying our creator is insucure or that people have it wrong?

People are obviously wrong when it comes to religion.

[Praetorian]

topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship. so your saying our creator is insucure or that people have it wrong?

People are obviously wrong when it comes to religion.

Oh dude, OBVIOUSLY! I mean, who can argue with such sound examples of why people are OBVIOUSLY wrong. Actually, no one can argue at all since you haven't stated why they are wrong...

topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship.

Have you read the thread? Why would anyone need to explain why God is insecure if no one believes God is insecure. That is like saying grape jelly is superior to strawberry jelly, and when everyone disagrees, you say, "Nobody has attempted to explain why grape jelly is superior to strawberry jelly." ...think about it. If no one is explaining it, maybe it is because grape jelly bows down to strawberry jelly.

LetsGetReal wrote: Praetorian wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

Wow. Make that statement a little more grammatically accurate, and it is exactly what I would say. :wink:

I guess it depends on your personal definition of worship.
Personally, I believe that God is like an extention of my parents. Of course someone is going to say "Your parents are the extention of God." Yeah, but that doesn't serve my explanation as well as the former statement. Anyway, I see God as a father who helps me, shields me, loves me. In return, I love him back as I do my earthly father. I tell my dad I love him all the time, just like I tell God. And I personally believe that is what He wants.

I think the bible, though reflective of God's wishes, is skewed. I believe it reflects the times in its wording. The point of religion in those times (and now) is to get as many followers as possible. Back then, it meant greater numbers and more ways to be powerful. Now, it equates to money. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You need money to run a church, and if you don't have the member numbers, it gets hard to support a church. I know. I was fourth generation in a New Orleans church that was expensive to maintain and there were only about six or seven regular members. But that is a complicated story for another discussion.

So I follow the teachings of the bible, but I keep it in perspective. Otherwise, if I take each passage literal and verbatim, I feel like I am studying Greek and Roman mythology. Such jaded perspectives I see from so many people. No one has tried to scare me into believing it just happened. No one forces me to give money but I want to. No one forces me to obide by every law, but I try to. You guys truly don't understand what the spirit of christianity is. You don't know too much about the bible or the message it portrays and for you guys to go along(except prae) bashing it, is to just show your ignorance.
Wait...you quoted me, so are you addressing me? Cause that statement has little relevance to my post.

[topnut]

Praetorian wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship. so your saying our creator is insucure or that people have it wrong?

People are obviously wrong when it comes to religion.

Oh dude, OBVIOUSLY! I mean, who can argue with such sound examples of why people are OBVIOUSLY wrong. Actually, no one can argue at all since you haven't stated why they are wrong...

topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship.

Have you read the thread? Why would anyone need to explain why God is insecure if no one believes God is insecure. That is like saying grape jelly is superior to strawberry jelly, and when everyone disagrees, you say, "Nobody has attempted to explain why grape jelly is superior to strawberry jelly." ...think about it. If no one is explaining it, maybe it is because grape jelly bows down to strawberry jelly.

LetsGetReal wrote: Praetorian wrote: Hyde wrote: topnut wrote: Hyde wrote: i wouldnt call it "kissing ass". i would call it love. like you said, you love your parents. just love God and be a good person. and calm down a little bit. not all christians "never think" just most.

You seem like a pretty liberal Christian..that's cool, but it doesn't say to love God it says to WORSHIP him.

Now if you answer me by saying, "well, the bible really means love and respect God". Then you're opening up a whole new can of worms by saying the bible isn't 100% accurate. It says worship and if you're a Christian than that's what it means.

Like I said..you seem liberal so this probably won't apply to you anyway.

well...im not a christian anymore but i used to be one back in the day. i had to disagree with christ is the only way to get to heaven thing and i have huge disagreements with pretty much all organized religion. i beleive that people start beleiveing things just because there church says its true. but i am pretty liberal. :-D and i dont think the bible is 100% accurate because, it was passed down from scribe to scribe and i think somethings had to have been changed. but like you said, a whole new can of worms.

Wow. Make that statement a little more grammatically accurate, and it is exactly what I would say. :wink:

I guess it depends on your personal definition of worship.
Personally, I believe that God is like an extention of my parents. Of course someone is going to say "Your parents are the extention of God." Yeah, but that doesn't serve my explanation as well as the former statement. Anyway, I see God as a father who helps me, shields me, loves me. In return, I love him back as I do my earthly father. I tell my dad I love him all the time, just like I tell God. And I personally believe that is what He wants.

I think the bible, though reflective of God's wishes, is skewed. I believe it reflects the times in its wording. The point of religion in those times (and now) is to get as many followers as possible. Back then, it meant greater numbers and more ways to be powerful. Now, it equates to money. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You need money to run a church, and if you don't have the member numbers, it gets hard to support a church. I know. I was fourth generation in a New Orleans church that was expensive to maintain and there were only about six or seven regular members. But that is a complicated story for another discussion.

So I follow the teachings of the bible, but I keep it in perspective. Otherwise, if I take each passage literal and verbatim, I feel like I am studying Greek and Roman mythology. Such jaded perspectives I see from so many people. No one has tried to scare me into believing it just happened. No one forces me to give money but I want to. No one forces me to obide by every law, but I try to. You guys truly don't understand what the spirit of christianity is. You don't know too much about the bible or the message it portrays and for you guys to go along(except prae) bashing it, is to just show your ignorance.
Wait...you quoted me, so are you addressing me? Cause that statement has little relevance to my post.

GET OVER YOURSELF M RON.

You're pulling the classic Christian tactic. Run from the question. You still haven't even made an attempt to explain why God needs us to worship him or go to hell.

If he's all powerful, why does he need our worship?

[toddytodd]

topnut wrote: Go to hell?

This part of the whole God thing has confused me.

He says he loves us but we have to worship him.

My parents love me, but I don't WORSHIP them, I respect them. I don't think you can love someone and then force them to WORSHIP you.

It's pretty simple logic.

It's like saying I love you but kiss my ass or you're going to hell.

Oh well, Christians never use common sense when they think about their religion. Hell, Christians never think period.

Personally, I think the requirement to worship is a human addition to Christianity. That being said, once you come into a personal relationship with God, you want to thank Him for what he has done with your life, what you have, etc. I think that is a form of worship that is given, not required.

[Gilbert1908]

topnut wrote: Nobody has eve attempted an explination to why God is so insecure he needs our worship.

As is usually the case you (meaning most people who state such a blatently incorrect premise) have the theology backwards.

God does not NEED our worship since God NEEDS nothing from us at all.

It is OUR need that is at issue.

It is self evident that an all powerful God who Christians believe to the Creator of time and matter is not in NEED of our worship for if that is what we believed it would be in obvious contrast of His gift of free will. Which is at the center of Christianity.

In fact your entire personification of God as being insecure and having needs shows a complete lack of understanding of the actual Christian concept of God, but you don't care about what the reality of that understanding is, you only care about your SELF DEFINED version in order to support your own self aggrandizing position of being beyond such silliness.

I really wish you people would simply get to the point and just state clearly that you believe in your own intellectual superiority rather than attempting to using bits information about the Christianity you WANT to believe exists so it justifies your unerlying belief that religious people are nitwits and fools.

I will say again, I can do a far better job of demeaning something if I have even a cursory understanding of it, instead of creating my own skewed version to prove a point that only those who lack any substantial knowledge of the subject can agree with.

If you are going to attempt to demean the Christian God you hate, at least do so based on something which Christians ACTUALLY believe, not things YOU believe they believe because it makes you feel superior, at least then you actually might have a reason to feel a little superior.

[MJB]

topnut wrote: Go to hell?

This part of the whole God thing has confused me.

He says he loves us but we have to worship him.

My parents love me, but I don't WORSHIP them, I respect them. I don't think you can love someone and then force them to WORSHIP you.

It's pretty simple logic.

It's like saying I love you but kiss my ass or you're going to hell.

Oh well, Christians never use common sense when they think about their religion. Hell, Christians never think period.

God does not need us to worship him. Nor do we have to worship him. He forces nothing on us.

But the first and great commandment is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. This we would certainly call worship. So why does God give this commandment? Is it because he's some kind of egomaniac that needs adoration? Heck no! God needs nothing from us.

God gives this commandment for man's sake, and he does so because it is this kind of love that enables man to have the implicit trust in God necessary, to follow all the rest of his commandments.

So why does God give man commandments anyway? Are they just arbitrary rules God makes up in order to make slaves of us? No! Does he give commandments so he can then take delight in punishing us if we don't obey them? No again!

God's work, and his greatest desire, is for man to, one day, live where He lives, and have the kind of existence He does. So God gives man commandments. These commandments are the instructions, the road map, if you will, that, if followed, will bring us into that existence.