Political Crossfire Forums

[Canada_Rocks]

I will be attending the NDP convention is Quebec city in September and I wrote a policy resolution concerning firearms. I plan on arguing that in a free and democratic society, if the government is am red the people should be as well. The debate will be over whether hand guns should be banned or not. I am obviously talking the position of not banned. The resolution lays out a few keys principles and steps. The debate will be tough. I plan on writing about 4000 words in possible rebuttals. I also plan on syphoning some very well made arguments from this forum.

wish me luck gun lovers!

[Winchester]

Good luck.

Post some of your rebutals here and maybe we can critique them.

[mathurin]

handguns will be the tough side, since most modern militaries consider handguns as nothing but backup, at best good for room clearing

[leftneckredwing]

GoGo, I applaud your stance. And Quebec city is a great place to do it. I think if one could actually do it, it wouldn't be difficult to prove that Quebec City has more illegal hand guns per capita than most other cities in North America.

I will be looking for your proposal.

[britboy]

My advice would be as follows:

1) Never, ever personally insult anyone you're arguing against. If you lose you cool and come back with 'Well, you're just a dumb idiot' you've effectively lost.

2) Have stats that counter-act any stats the opposition is likely to bring up. BUT try not to get your stats from places like the NRA. Whether the stats the NRA drags up are true or false, people's pre-conceptions of the organisation will mean they are not taken seriously. For a similar reason avoid organisations called things like 'The San Diego Gun Rights Group'. Stats sounds a hell of a lot better if quoted from a 'neutral' source. Also MAKE SURE YOU QUOTE where you got your stats from. Otherwise people will presume you made them up / got them from 'Weloveguns.com'. Avoid quotes (apart from maybe the 'forefathers' but most of these are cliched and so well known people will presume you can't think of anything else to say).

3) Don't say things like 'but my friend Geoff got attacked and without his gun he may have been raped'. They don't know Geoff. So they'll think you're making the story up. Also stats based on one individual 'friend of a friend' are the worst of all.

4) Have good answers to words like 'Columbine'. 90% of the answer should be how sorry you feel for the victims and how your heart goes out to their families. Saying 'the victims would still be around if desert eagles were allowed into schools' would not be clever!

5) Just try and sounds reasonable. Don't try and sound like a nut. If the opposition say a point, don't immediately think you have to try and discredit everything they say -- this will turn people off you. Start the sentence 'Firstly I would like to say I understand and appreciate your opinions, however'. This will make everyone think 'This person is worth listening to'. If you start the retort 'You're speaking out of your a$$ you moron' people will think 'how rude, I don't like this person. Now lets see what people who I don't like believe'.


Good luck. I love debating, but hate mud-slinging! Hence the above ...

[Boneman]

What is this NDP thing? Sort of like a model united nations? I remember doing that a while ago, I had a resolution passed forcing all member states to have nukes, which was rather surprising seeing as the majority of people there were the bleeding heart liberal type. If youve got a good argument and the evidence to back up your case, you can make people change their opinions on something pretty rapidly.

[Lucky Luke]

britboy wrote: My advice would be as follows:

1) Never, ever personally insult anyone you're arguing against. If you lose you cool and come back with 'Well, you're just a dumb idiot' you've effectively lost.

2) Have stats that counter-act any stats the opposition is likely to bring up. BUT try not to get your stats from places like the NRA. Whether the stats the NRA drags up are true or false, people's pre-conceptions of the organisation will mean they are not taken seriously. For a similar reason avoid organisations called things like 'The San Diego Gun Rights Group'. Stats sounds a hell of a lot better if quoted from a 'neutral' source. Also MAKE SURE YOU QUOTE where you got your stats from. Otherwise people will presume you made them up / got them from 'Weloveguns.com'. Avoid quotes (apart from maybe the 'forefathers' but most of these are cliched and so well known people will presume you can't think of anything else to say).

3) Don't say things like 'but my friend Geoff got attacked and without his gun he may have been raped'. They don't know Geoff. So they'll think you're making the story up. Also stats based on one individual 'friend of a friend' are the worst of all.

4) Have good answers to words like 'Columbine'. 90% of the answer should be how sorry you feel for the victims and how your heart goes out to their families. Saying 'the victims would still be around if desert eagles were allowed into schools' would not be clever!

5) Just try and sounds reasonable. Don't try and sound like a nut. If the opposition say a point, don't immediately think you have to try and discredit everything they say -- this will turn people off you. Start the sentence 'Firstly I would like to say I understand and appreciate your opinions, however'. This will make everyone think 'This person is worth listening to'. If you start the retort 'You're speaking out of your a$$ you moron' people will think 'how rude, I don't like this person. Now lets see what people who I don't like believe'.


Good luck. I love debating, but hate mud-slinging! Hence the above ...

I wish some people would follow your advice here.

:-D
:-D

[lilwolf]

In other words suck up real good to attempt to get you point across. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

[Canada_Rocks]

Winchester wrote: Good luck.

Post some of your rebuttals here and maybe we can critique them.

I will. :wink:

Mathurin wrote: handguns will be the tough side, since most modern militaries consider handguns as nothing but backup, at best good for room clearing

My main stance will be on hand guns. I am not going to bush for automatic arms because there is pretty bad sentiment about those here in Canada.

leftneckredwing wrote: GoGo, I applaud your stance. And Quebec city is a great place to do it. I think if one could actually do it, it wouldn't be difficult to prove that Quebec City has more illegal hand guns per capita than most other cities in North America.

I will be looking for your proposal.

Thanks dude. I have been searching thru the National firearms association for statistics on various subjects from illegal/legal gun fatalities etc. I haven't been able to find any yet but I am sure if I email the administrator he would be HAPPY to help since they are fighting for the same thing.

britboy wrote: My advice would be as follows:

Thanks!. I am pretty civil in real life :lol: I was actually thinking about getting brochures printed up, something I can hand out at the event. My friend (who is the other delegate for our riding) is looking into getting a board a train the Via Rail has offered to the NDP to transport delegates from Montreal to Quebec city. If I can hand out brochures to the big wigs like the caucus etc I think that would be a good idea.

Boneman wrote: What is this NDP thing? Sort of like a model united nations? I remember doing that a while ago, I had a resolution passed forcing all member states to have nukes, which was rather surprising seeing as the majority of people there were the bleeding heart liberal type. If youve got a good argument and the evidence to back up your case, you can make people change their opinions on something pretty rapidly.

LOL, No. This is the real deal. The NDP is a large political party in Canada. www.ndp.ca. Traditionally It goes The Green - NDP - Liberals - Conservatives (Left to Right on the political compass)
The NDP however has a much more democratic internal process and I have found in my dealings with many of it's members they are pretty open...They aren't Liberal wieners...Like the Liberals. :lol:

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Please give us an after action report. :)