Political Crossfire Forums

[Dustferret]

Hello, it is me; Dustferret, the heathen ass, that owns Christian doctrine right and left. A new thing Christians are saying, is that we need the Bible in schools.

What they say: We want god in the schools! Bring back the Bible!
Translated into English: Force children to become Christians, make them read the Bible!

Misconception 1: The Bible was taken out of schools.
Truth: The Bible is still in schools, it just isn't taught as the truth. To do so is proaganda, brainwashing, and a bigger moral vacuum tna a roomful of atheists watching an XXX film.

Misconception 2: Reading the Bible or Praying during school is against rules.
Truth: It just isn't condoned or forced, as it used to be. Do your research.

Misconception 3: This country was founded on chrsitianity! WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Truth: Wrong. It is disputed if many of the founding fathers were Christian at all. In fact the "god" referred to in the constitution, is in fact the "Universal Force of Life" that many of the founding fathers believed in. Christians are just so arrogant, they assumed it was them. Not only that, but their morals were based off the ten commandments, but were made of FREE WILL by non-christians. Athiests and non-christians have stronger moral fiber, because they do it out of will, not out of greed for reward or fear of punishment.

Don't tell the government we're "Raging war against Christianity." You're waging war against us![/code]

[Doowstados]

Yes well i'm sure theres a drug for that, theres a drug for everything.

Actually, anything you have to do pertaining to religion can be done in schools as long as your beliefs aren't forced on other students or, it doesn't interupt the classroom.

[genitalrage]

I see nothing wrong with the Bible in schools, as long as it is labeled as a book of fables.

[Dustferret]

Shane, that's forcing Atheism. While I agree with it's philosophy, you're no worse than people who shove the bible down peoples throats. It should be kept, in the Reference section. As a religous book. Do that, or take it out alltogether.

[genitalrage]

removing it sounds good. they don't carry Mein Kampf in schools.
Or the Satanic Bible.

[Aqualung]

Dustferret wrote: Hello, it is me; Dustferret, the heathen ass, that owns Christian doctrine right and left. A new thing Christians are saying, is that we need the Bible in schools.

What they say: We want god in the schools! Bring back the Bible!
Translated into English: Force children to become Christians, make them read the Bible!
Misconception 1: If somebody reads the Bible, they will necessarily become Christian.

Quote: Misconception 1: The Bible was taken out of schools.
Truth: The Bible is still in schools, it just isn't taught as the truth. To do so is proaganda, brainwashing, and a bigger moral vacuum tna a roomful of atheists watching an XXX film.

Misconception 2: Reading the Bible or Praying during school is against rules.
Truth: It just isn't condoned or forced, as it used to be. Do your research.

Misconception 3: This country was founded on chritianity! WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Truth: Wrong. Jefferson, Franklin, AND Madison, were raving atheists. In fact the "god" referred to in the constitution, is in fact the "Universal Force of Life" that Jefferson believed in. Christians are just so arrogant, they assumed it was them. Not only that, but their morals were based off the ten commandments, but were made of FREE WILL by atheists. Athiests have stronger moral fiber, because they do it out of will, not out of greed for reward or fear of punishment.
Agreed. :tu:

[Dustferret]

Religious text should be kept in school libraries. Religion has shaped our society in such a big way, taking it out, is like taking out a chunk of history. You don't see the Satanic Bible for obvious reasons, and yes, you do see Mein Kampf.

[Doowstados]

If you were to put a manuscript worshipping Lucifer in a school, I guarantee you they would not allow it. This is because every christian family who has a son/daughter who goes to the said school would sign a petition to force down someone elses beliefs, and yes, that is how America works, even though it clearly says we have freedom of speech in the constitution, but if you look at things like the Mt. Soledad cross in San Diego CA. The athiests are petitioning to take it down, and are winning. What happened to freedom of speech?

[Dustferret]

What kills it is the ambiguity. People are always trying to find exceptions to a rule, and then contradicting it later. My two cents is that people get too uptight. They fight for what the government tells them to or their parents.

I don't fight because I'm uptight, I fight because I believe.

[Aqualung]

Doowstados wrote: If you were to put a manuscript worshipping Lucifer in a school, I guarantee you they would not allow it.
I wouldn't guaruntee such a thing. My school would have allowed it. In fact, my school allowed the students to pass around flyers asking students to go on strike (which, I'll admit, is kind of a retarded thing to ask, but the fact that it was allowed is what's important).

[Doowstados]

Yes well if you lived in San Diego you would understand everyone around here is uptight as hell.

[Dustferret]

Dude, move anywhere else, and tell me San Diego is uptight. This is like the 3rd most Liberal city in the world. (I'm looking at you San Francisco!), just because of my mom, Mr.Mangan, and a few other people, it's still SoCal.

[genitalrage]

It's true. Our Vice Principal denied us a Dungeons & Dragons club because he claimed "It encourages Satanism". That's just total ignorance.

[Dustferret]

We ended up better off, playing it at your house. However let's not get off track.

[MJB]

Dustferret wrote: Hello, it is me; Dustferret, the heathen ass, that owns Christian doctrine right and left. A new thing Christians are saying, is that we need the Bible in schools.

What they say: We want god in the schools! Bring back the Bible!
Translated into English: Force children to become Christians, make them read the Bible!

Misconception 1: The Bible was taken out of schools.
Truth: The Bible is still in schools, it just isn't taught as the truth. To do so is proaganda, brainwashing, and a bigger moral vacuum tna a roomful of atheists watching an XXX film.

Misconception 2: Reading the Bible or Praying during school is against rules.
Truth: It just isn't condoned or forced, as it used to be. Do your research.

Misconception 3: This country was founded on chritianity! WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Truth: Wrong. Jefferson, Franklin, AND Madison, were raving atheists. In fact the "god" referred to in the constitution, is in fact the "Universal Force of Life" that Jefferson believed in. Christians are just so arrogant, they assumed it was them. Not only that, but their morals were based off the ten commandments, but were made of FREE WILL by atheists. Athiests have stronger moral fiber, because they do it out of will, not out of greed for reward or fear of punishment.

Don't tell the government we're "Raging war against Christianity." You're waging war against us![/code]

"Jefferson, Franklin, AND Madison, were raving atheists?"

:rotf:

(Thanks. I needed that.)

[Dustferret]

Last but not least, in the words of our Forefathers...


In 1787, when the framers excluded all mention of God from the Constitution, they were widely denounced as immoral and the document was denounced as godless, which is precisely what it is. A good many people important to this nation's formation were Deists. Here are quotes from some of the forefathers of the United States of America:

Benjamin Franklin:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his religion...has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, by Benjamin Franklin (Dover 1996)

Thomas Paine:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbeliefe [sic]; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
--from The Age of Reason

He also had a few thoughts in regards to the Bible: "It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel."

John Adams, the 2nd Constitutional President:
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!'"
(John Adams, A Biography in His Own Words)


"We can never be so certain of any Prophecy or the fulfillment of any Prophecy; or of any miracle as We are, from the recelation of nature i.e. natures God that two and two are equal to four. Miracles or Prophecies might frighten Us out of our Witts; might scare us to death; might induce Us to lie, to say that We believe that 2 and 2 make 5. But We should not believe it. We should know the contrary."
-- The Adams-Jefferson Letters, ed. Lester Cappon (Chapel Hill 1959)


"the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
John Adams, from the Treaty of Peace and Friendship (Article XI)

Thomas Jefferson:
"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
--from Notes on Virginia, 1784

James Madison, fourth president of the U.S.:

If Religion be not within the cognizance of Civil Government how can its legal establishment be necessary to Civil Government? What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people.
--Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments


"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
--Letter to William Bradford

Ethan Allen made possible the capture of Fort Ticonderoga and that lead to the belief that maybe the war for our Independence was possible to win. He described himself as "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian." (Reason, the Only Oracle of Man, by Ethan Allen)


and finally...

George Washington had his own thoughts on how to deal with religious diversity in society.
All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunity of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens.
--Letter to the Jewish community of Newport, Rhode Island, 1790.
Think about that one for a bit.

Good job ignoramus. Believe the christian lie?

[Doowstados]

MJB = Owned.

Although I didn't check those quotes to see if they are really quotes, lol.

[MJB]

Ignoramous? Owned?

Oh please! :roll:

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson

"Here is my creed: I believe in one God, the Creator of the universe. That he governs it by his providence. That he ought to be worshiped. That the most acceptable service we render him is doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this." Benjamin Franklin

"The belief in God all powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it." James Madison

:P

[Dustferret]

Who here is right eh? Did you cite your documents? No. Who says they refer to the christian god anyway. Many founding fathers were known for belief in a Universal Lifeforce.

[LetsGetReal]

Dustferret wrote: Hello, it is me; Dustferret, the heathen ass, that owns Christian doctrine right and left. A new thing Christians are saying, is that we need the Bible in schools.

What they say: We want god in the schools! Bring back the Bible!
Translated into English: Force children to become Christians, make them read the Bible!

Misconception 1: The Bible was taken out of schools.
Truth: The Bible is still in schools, it just isn't taught as the truth. To do so is proaganda, brainwashing, and a bigger moral vacuum tna a roomful of atheists watching an XXX film.

Misconception 2: Reading the Bible or Praying during school is against rules.
Truth: It just isn't condoned or forced, as it used to be. Do your research.

Misconception 3: This country was founded on chritianity! WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Truth: Wrong. Jefferson, Franklin, AND Madison, were raving atheists. In fact the "god" referred to in the constitution, is in fact the "Universal Force of Life" that Jefferson believed in. Christians are just so arrogant, they assumed it was them. Not only that, but their morals were based off the ten commandments, but were made of FREE WILL by atheists. Athiests have stronger moral fiber, because they do it out of will, not out of greed for reward or fear of punishment.

Don't tell the government we're "Raging war against Christianity." You're waging war against us![/code] What we say: Believing in Evolution is just as big a guess as Creationism.
What they say: No its not we have bones...

Misconception 1: If you read the bible you will automatically be indoctrinated into the belief that Jesus Christ died for your sins.
Answer: Even though Jesus Christ died for your sins, you don't have to believe it. We would just like to show a different point of view that is widely held in the general public.

Misconception 2: Prayer is allowed in school.
Answer: Prayer is only allowed if not initiated by a employee of the state or forced upon any student. Which is fine just if the employee wants to pray he should be allowed to.

Misconception 3: That we weren't founded on Christianity.
Answer: In the Declaration of Independence it plainly says "inalienable rights given to us by our Creator". Also Jefferson was very religious even though he was a deist. He believed that God no longer took a role in everday life after Jesus died for everyones sin. He also held Church service in the White House on sundays done by him. Jefferson actually abridged the bible, naming it the Jeffersonian Bible. For all those that think Madison wasn't religious, then why was he so adamant about Religious freedom. Here is a link to the Heritage Foundation which does an awesome write up on Madisons Views http://www.heritage.org/Research/PoliticalPhilosophy/EM729.cfm. Here is also an another link that describes Religion and the Founding of our country http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html.