Political Crossfire Forums

[Enoch]

The world is filled with stereotypes and misconceptions surrounding religion and the religious. Some of these are positive, such as that Buddhists are kind and gentle. Some of them are negative, such as that Muslims are terrorists. However, all religions have unique stereotypes and misconceptions that surround it.

The two biggest misconceptions I have had to deal with, as a Wiccan, come in terminology and beliefs. First, there is a misconception that male Witches, such as myself, are called Warlocks. That is not true. The term "Warlock" actually comes from either an Old English or Latin (unsure as to which) phrase meaning "vow breaker." It was a term used to describe Witches, both male and female, who betrayed the secrets of their coven. In the times of early Witchcraft, each coven had their own rituals, spells, and practices which were considered special and secret. To divulge those to another person outside the coven was a betrayal and the warlock (vow breaker) was shunned.

Second, there is the misconception that Wiccans worship Satan. This, I believe, comes from the notion that our religious symbol (as seen in my avatar) is satanic in origin. In actuality, it is a very old symbol that predates satanism or devil worship. However, some satanic groups have taken the pentacle and inverted it to use as their own emblem; thus causing confusion.



Has anyone else had to deal with misconceptions regarding their beliefs? If so, what were they?

[Carlin]

I had a boss once who said nobody can be an Atheist if their dying. I thought that was the stupidest thing I ever heard. Each day brings us closer to death. A lot of Atheists understand the reality of death and its immenence. Two years later I had a different boss at another job who was religious and volunteerd at a hospice. As he was telling me about it, he said, "man, and I can't believe how many of these people do it without God." I keep a lid my beliefs in the work place (which is something these guys didn't do). I just don't feel it's the place.

[feederband]

There is alot of Misconceptions with Atheism..

[Aqualung]

I have some pretty big ones. I'll enumerate as many as I can think of.
All of the following are not beleifs the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints
We worship Joseph Smith.
We don't use the Bible.
The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.
The Book of Mormon is more important than the Bible.
We have blood oaths in the temple.
Women can't get to heaven unless they're married.
We don't believe in Christ.
We kill gay people.
We are polygamous.
A woman cannot be saved if she is not married.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure more will come to me.

[feederband]

CrossEyedMary wrote: I have some pretty big ones. I'll enumerate as many as I can think of.
All of the following are not beleifs the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints
We worship Joseph Smith.
We don't use the Bible.
The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.
The Book of Mormon is more important than the Bible.
We have blood oaths in the temple.
Women can't get to heaven unless they're married.
We don't believe in Christ.
We kill gay people.
We are polygamous.
A woman cannot be saved if she is not married.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure more will come to me.

Yeah but it made a real good South Park episode.

[Aqualung]

So I've heard. I've never seen it, but I would like to. People bring it up A LOT and it's always when you know what other people are talking about. :lol:

[Darth Tiberius]

feederband wrote: There is alot of Misconceptions with Atheism..

Oh hell yeah. For instance th main misconception of religious people (Christians in particular) to athiests is that you have to be religious to be moral. Basically then leading to the arrogant assumption that athiests are void of morals and would commit crimes whenever and wherever. Also that athiests are just hedonistic playboys that don't have any set morals when athiests (virtually all) have their own set morals and they follow it much better since they don't live out of fear of a "hell" and they don't do good because they "need to do it".

[mendosan]

There was a Great BBC series on the history of Atheism called a "Brief History of Disbelief" which helped me to undersand more about Atheism and how it streched back to Ancient Greece it was very intresting, but for some reason they won't release it as a DVD im not sure why.

[Darth Tiberius]

mendosan wrote: There was a Great BBC series on the history of Atheism called a "Brief History of Disbelief" which helped me to undersand more about Atheism and how it streched back to Ancient Greece it was very intresting, but for some reason they won't release it as a DVD im not sure why.

In a nutshell what did it basically describe or say. I'm intruiged.

[Gilbert1908]

Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: There is alot of Misconceptions with Atheism..

Oh hell yeah. For instance th main misconception of religious people (Christians in particular) to athiests is that you have to be religious to be moral. Basically then leading to the arrogant assumption that athiests are void of morals and would commit crimes whenever and wherever. Also that athiests are just hedonistic playboys that don't have any set morals when athiests (virtually all) have their own set morals and they follow it much better since they don't live out of fear of a "hell" and they don't do good because they "need to do it".

You point out two very significant flaws, one within human beings the other within the "philosophy" of Morals created by the self.

1-No Christian nor anyone else should judge a person without knowing about that person.

2-Any philosophy which supposes that each individual can and should make up their own morality is in support of anarchy.

While there is little doubt that one DETERMINES his or her morality since we all have free will, morality is by definition behavior or action that nearly always includes OTHER people or (if you are a believer) God. So to suggest that everyone can MAKE up their own morality while certainly possible, is simply not practicle to create and maintain a functional society.

There is no atheist "morality" as such since atheism does not proscribe behavior but disbelief. This is not to say an atheist can not be very moral indeed, it is simply that atheism itself has no particular hints on such behavior.

So it is absolutely wrong to say or even suggest that an atheist has no morals but perfectly accurate to say that ATHEISM has no set moral structure and therefore no morals.

[Enoch]

I think everyone has to deal with misconceptions based on what they believe. As for atheists, I have seen many people claim that if you aren't religious you aren't moral. I really don't understand how they can believe that. Morality is a sense of right and wrong, and you don't need religion to teach that.

[VBach37]

CrossEyedMary wrote: The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.

No, the crazy thing about Mormons is that you believe that it wasn't written by Joseph Smith! :roll:

[Aqualung]

VBach37 wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.

No, the crazy thing about Mormons is that you believe that it wasn't written by Joseph Smith! :roll:
You should start a thread about that. I'd love to discuss it with you. If not, I guess I will have to conclude that you really have no real basis to conclude that except your own biases and prejudices, and that you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

Though, I must say, the question was, "What do people think you believe, but you don't" and that's one of them.

[Iandefor]

I encounter misconceptions about agnosticism all the time. People seem to believe it's just a handy label for people who haven't picked a religion yet.

Agnosticism is it's own stance- that we can never prove the existence of any divinity, nor may we disprove it. Since it can't be proven either way, it's pointless to worry about it and more productive to live life instead.

[Gilbert1908]

Iandefor wrote: I encounter misconceptions about agnosticism all the time. People seem to believe it's just a handy label for people who haven't picked a religion yet.

Agnosticism is it's own stance- that we can never prove the existence of any divinity, nor may we disprove it. Since it can't be proven either way, it's pointless to worry about it and more productive to live life instead.

I doubt you can prove these misconceptions anyway so what's the point???


Sorry I couldn't resist.

[Iandefor]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Iandefor wrote: I encounter misconceptions about agnosticism all the time. People seem to believe it's just a handy label for people who haven't picked a religion yet.

Agnosticism is it's own stance- that we can never prove the existence of any divinity, nor may we disprove it. Since it can't be proven either way, it's pointless to worry about it and more productive to live life instead.

I doubt you can prove these misconceptions anyway so what's the point???


Sorry I couldn't resist. Umm...what? Sorry, just the format of your statement confuses me.

[John Galt]

feederband wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: I have some pretty big ones. I'll enumerate as many as I can think of.
All of the following are not beleifs the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints
We worship Joseph Smith.
We don't use the Bible.
The Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.
The Book of Mormon is more important than the Bible.
We have blood oaths in the temple.
Women can't get to heaven unless they're married.
We don't believe in Christ.
We kill gay people.
We are polygamous.
A woman cannot be saved if she is not married.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure more will come to me.

Yeah but it made a real good South Park episode.

Actually the SP episode was quite accurate. He DID "translate" the book of Mormon out of a hat.

http://www.i4m.com/think/southpark/

"South Park's depiction of the translation of the Book of Mormon is more accurate than most Mormons realize. It shows Joseph Smith putting two seer stones into a hat, then burying his face in the hat and dictating words to Martin Harris.

" Mormon Church Apostle Russell M. Nelson explained the real translation process:

“The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. [Oliver Cowdery's brother-in-law] David Whitmer wrote:”

‘Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.’ (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 1887, p. 12.)”

- Elder Russell M. Nelson, A Treasured Testament, Ensign, July 1993, 61

Joseph Smith's first wife, Emma, was an eye-witness to Joseph Smith's use of a seer stone during the transcribing of the Book of Mormon. She testified to her son:

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."

- History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols, "Last Testimony of Sister Emma," 3:356."

The SP episode was quite accutate on other things, even though it did poke fun. ALot. But in the end they said Mormons were good folk, even if they believe what they do.

[drobforever]

Gilbert1908 wrote:

1-No Christian nor anyone else should judge a person without knowing about that person.


Actually no Christian should judge a person even if he/she knows that person.

Quote:
2-Any philosophy which supposes that each individual can and should make up their own morality is in support of anarchy.


But that's not the philosophy of Atheism. It's a common misconception that if we don't believe in God, morality is just relative/subjective and we have to make up our own morality. Many people, especially conservatives, have this misconception, e.g. Dennis Prager just made this mistake this Friday.

Just because there's no God to guarantee what's right or wrong, doesn't mean that human beings don't have the ability to reason/understand what's right/wrong. But more importantly, God doesn't guarantee what's right or wrong unless you can prove that God really exists. A believe that God exists is not enough to guarantee objective morality, since it's just your 'subjective opinion' that God exists.

[Darth Tiberius]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: There is alot of Misconceptions with Atheism..

Oh hell yeah. For instance th main misconception of religious people (Christians in particular) to athiests is that you have to be religious to be moral. Basically then leading to the arrogant assumption that athiests are void of morals and would commit crimes whenever and wherever. Also that athiests are just hedonistic playboys that don't have any set morals when athiests (virtually all) have their own set morals and they follow it much better since they don't live out of fear of a "hell" and they don't do good because they "need to do it".

You point out two very significant flaws, one within human beings the other within the "philosophy" of Morals created by the self.

1-No Christian nor anyone else should judge a person without knowing about that person.

2-Any philosophy which supposes that each individual can and should make up their own morality is in support of anarchy.

While there is little doubt that one DETERMINES his or her morality since we all have free will, morality is by definition behavior or action that nearly always includes OTHER people or (if you are a believer) God. So to suggest that everyone can MAKE up their own morality while certainly possible, is simply not practicle to create and maintain a functional society.

There is no atheist "morality" as such since atheism does not proscribe behavior but disbelief. This is not to say an atheist can not be very moral indeed, it is simply that atheism itself has no particular hints on such behavior.

So it is absolutely wrong to say or even suggest that an atheist has no morals but perfectly accurate to say that ATHEISM has no set moral structure and therefore no morals.

It is not always right to just blame peoples' human natures. Sometimes belief and bias are reasons for why people act the way they do een if it is not how they acted before. Just because Christianity "tells" others not to judge others that still doesn't stop anyone. People act the way they do. When they consider themselves "saved" and in "god's graces" then they sense of pride comes in and then the person can twist logic and say they aren't judging by saying they are not moral because they are "trying to lead them to what's right by example" and that is often a trait of religion.

Gilbert1908 wrote: Any philosophy which supposes that each individual can and should make up their own morality is in support of anarchy.

Simply not true. Sentient beings are free thinkers and free thinkers choose what is right to them. Otherwise we'd all have the exact same ideas and morals which isn't possible. Obviously virtually all agree that certain crimes and actions are wrong (a.k.a. murder, rape, etc..) and that stems from the human nature we have. Also different societies have different ideas on what's moral. Islamic societies, secular and Christian. And these morals can be influenced by things like religion which connects to my earlier point. Logic.