Political Crossfire Forums

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

The cover up is in your face and yet some refuse to accept it.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/020723nytimes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4574366633014832928&q=fireman+bombs+in+the+building

Knight · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 838

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Multiple threads already about cover ups for 9/11.... try posting that information in those threads. Either that or just keep increasing your post count.

Straudos · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 466

This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

how is debunked that there is a gag order on fireman and how do you debunk the fireman saying there are bombs in the building?

Free Thinkr · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:09 am Post subject:

topnut wrote: Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

how is debunked that there is a gag order on fireman
Because, it's freaking ridiculous that hundreds of firemen are willingly keeping silent, despite supposedly holding knowledge that their government was involved in events that took the lives of their peers.

Quote: and how do you debunk the fireman saying there are bombs in the building?
I defy you to find a single quote of a fireman claiming there were bombs in the building. They did report hearing "explosions," but then, explosions aren't caused exclusively by bombs.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7869 Location: On the Run.

Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

saying its debunked dosnt debunk it. :wink:

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Gremlin wrote: Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

saying its debunked dosnt debunk it. :wink:

Yet you somehow can say there is no proof when there is proof all over the place. Your hypocricy knows no bounds.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7869 Location: On the Run.

Patriot911 wrote: Gremlin wrote: Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

saying its debunked dosnt debunk it. :wink:

Yet you somehow can say there is no proof when there is proof all over the place. Your hypocricy knows no bounds.

missquote, i never said that.

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

Free Thinkr wrote: topnut wrote: Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

how is debunked that there is a gag order on fireman
Because, it's freaking ridiculous that hundreds of firemen are willingly keeping silent, despite supposedly holding knowledge that their government was involved in events that took the lives of their peers.

Quote: and how do you debunk the fireman saying there are bombs in the building?
I defy you to find a single quote of a fireman claiming there were bombs in the building. They did report hearing "explosions," but then, explosions aren't caused exclusively by bombs.

See this is the problem...how can we ever get anyware if you ask me such a moronic question?

You defy me to give you a single quote of a fireman claiming there were bombs in the building!

Did you not watch the second link?

"clear out, there are bombs in the building".

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Show me proof that there is a gag order on the firemen. That is a copout to explain why no fireman has come forward to validate the conspiracy theories. I guarantee you that if a fireman knew of a conspiracy such as there truly being bombs in the buildings and he knew it was responsible for 400 fellow firefighter deaths, there isn't a gag order made that would shut him up short of death. You might get some firemen to be quiet, but no way you could shut even a majority of them up.

As for the video link, there was a lot of misinformation going around on 9/11 due to the chaos and confusion. People didn't know the extent of what was going on. There were news reports of possible bombs that turned out to be incorrect as well. No bombs were found. No bombs exploded. No firefighter has come forward to say they think bombs were used.

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Gremlin wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Gremlin wrote: Straudos wrote: This was already addressed a while ago. That's the problem with these things. You thoroughly debunk one point and it pops back up a few weeks later like nothing ever happened.

saying its debunked dosnt debunk it. :wink:

Yet you somehow can say there is no proof when there is proof all over the place. Your hypocricy knows no bounds.

missquote, i never said that.
Wrong again. You've repeatedly dismissed testimony proof as invalid because the stories don't match up perfectly. You've done it on flight 93. You've done it on WTC 7. You've done it on flight 77. In each instance the vast majority of the witnesses claim to have seen the same thing yet in each instance you've summarily dismissed everything without consideration. In the case of WTC 7 you dismiss everyone even though EVERYONE says the same thing.

Your tactic of dismissing eyewitness testimony due to the fact it destroys your theory completely is both dishonest and shows your complete lack of integrity.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7869 Location: On the Run.

The character assassination continues.

i have not dismissed anything as you continue to claim.
Testimony is evidence of the fact and when there is conflicting testimony further evidence will be required to prove the case.

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Gremlin wrote: The character assassination continues.

i have not dismissed anything as you continue to claim.
Testimony is evidence of the fact and when there is conflicting testimony further evidence will be required to prove the case.

There is no character assassination. For you it is more like character suicide. I am doing nothing but pointing out your dishonesty and double standards.

Testimony is evidence. The more testimony you have, the stronger the evidence. Simple as that. If you have two people and they both say something completely different, then I agree you need to have other evidence to show who is telling the truth. When you have 100 people saying 1 thing and 1 person saying another, it should be pretty obvious to anyone but a patently dishonest person who has the more accurate testimony.

And then again you have WTC 7 and the firefighter testimony. They all say basically the same thing, yet you dismiss them all as "dudes" who don't know what they are talking about when they are expert witnesses. Not a single firefighter says there was no structural damage, yet you claim there is no proof of structural damage. And you say you don't dismiss proof? I call you a liar and this is the proof.

Straudos · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 466

Nobody ever claimed to have seen a bomb in the WTC on 9/11, not then and not today.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7869 Location: On the Run.

Straudos wrote: Nobody ever claimed to have seen a bomb in the WTC on 9/11, not then and not today.

:lol: ... yea they would just leaving a bomb laying around for someone to see.

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http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/oralhistories/index.html wrote: On August 12, 2005, the New York Times announced the release of more than 12,000 pages of oral histories in the form of transcripts of interviews with 503 firefighters and emergency medical responders. New York City's fire commissioner at the time of the attack, Thomas Von Essen, gathered oral histories. 1

The New York Times published the oral histories, and provides an index of PDFs of the interviews here. 2 The Times converted a subset of the interviews into text files. 3 The following pages excerpt passages from the accounts pertaining to the observation of aspects of the collapses.*

Witnesses Report Bombs/Explosions In The WTC

Firemen recall "detonations" in South Tower:

fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out ..
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det..
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom ...
fireman1: All the way down, I was watchin it, and runnin'

(60 second video clip, right click save target as):
http://911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

Member of the FDNY:

"We were trying to get some of the people out, but then there was secondary explosions and then subsequent collapses."

Video: http://www.911blimp.net/videos/FDNY-explosions.mov

FDNY Firefighter:

"As we were getting our gear on and making our way to the stairway, there was a heavy duty explosion."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/heavy.duty.explosion.wmv

MSNBC Reporter:

"At 10:30 I tried to leave the building, but as I got outside I heard a second explosion and another rumble and more smoke and more dust. I ran inside the building and the chandelier shook and again black smoke filled the air. Within another five minutes we were covered again with more soot and more dust. And then a fire marshal came in and said we had to leave, because if there was a third explosion this building might not last.."

Video: http://www.terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.ann.thompson.intermediate.explosions.wmv

Reporter:

"45 minutes into the taping we were doing, there was an explosion. It was way up where the fire was and the whole building at that point bellied out in flames and everybody ran."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.2.wmv

NBC reporter Pat Dawson

Video clip of Pat Dawson reporting on the comments made by Albert Turi, Chief of Safety for the New York City Fire Department, claiming there were bombs planted in the WTC:

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.1.wmv

Eye-witness:

"I was about five blocks away when I heard explosions... three thuds and turned around to see the building that we just got out of... tip over and fall in on itself."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.1.wmv

Eye-witness:

"...and then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and then all of a sudden three big explosions."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.2.wmv

Quote: September 12, 2001, New York City, People.com

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem.

We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck. I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building...

Source:
http://prisonplanet.com/louie_cacchioli.htm
Quote: Terror in the City, September 12 , 2001, Notes from Robert Ivy, FAIA Editor-in-chief

...we felt a rumble like faraway thunder and turned. The impossible was happening. The south tower of the World Trade Center shook, and in what resembled an elemental act, fell to earth in a mighty shout. The entire dissolution, the changeover from solid elements to ash, took only seconds, and it was gone...

http://www.archrecord.com/news/fromTheField/archives/0109terror.asp
Quote: An Eye-Witness Account of the World Trade Center Attacks
from Neil deGrasse Tyson

The following is the text from an email Neil deGrasse Tyson sent to his family and friends on 12 September 2001. Neil witnessed the attacks on the twin towers from his apartment only six blocks from the World Trade Center. He is Director of the Hayden Planetarium of the American Museum of Natural History, which is located in New York City. Neil also serves as The Planetary Society's Vice President...

From: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sent: 10AM, Wednesday, 12 September 2001
Subject: The Horror, The Horror

...4) As more and more and more and more and more emergency vehicles descended on the World Trade Center, I hear a second explosion in WTC 2, then a loud, low-frequency rumble that precipitates the unthinkable -- a collapse of all the floors above the point of explosion. First the top surface, containing the helipad, tips sideways in full view. Then the upper floors fall straight down in a demolition-style implosion, taking all lower floors with it, even those below the point of the explosion...

...6) I decide it's time to get my daughter, who was taken by the parents of a friend of hers to a small office building, six blocks farther from the WTC than my apartment. As I dress for survival: boots, flashlight, wet towels, swimming goggles, bicycle helmet, gloves, I hear another explosion followed by a now all-too familiar rumble that signaled the collapse of WTC 1, the first of the two towers to have been hit. I saw the iconic antenna on this building descend straight down in an implosion twinning the first...
Quote: Tuesday, 11 September, 2001, Eyewitnesses tell of horror, BBC News

"...I saw everything from my balcony in Soho. The first plane tried to veer off the tower but slammed straight into it, followed by the second plane," Nadine Keller of New York City wrote in an e-mail to BBC News Online.

"There was smoke everywhere. I heard the bomb and saw both buildings crumble like biscuits," Ms Keller said.

The BBC received more than 1,300 e-mails from witnesses and other concerned readers within the first few hours after the attack.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1537500.stm
Quote: 9/11 Survivor Describes Multiple Explosions

"There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street toward Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."

Source: "Teresa Veliz: A Prayer to Die Quickly and Painlessly," in September 11: An Oral History by Dean E. Murphy (Doubleday, 2002), pp 9-15. http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/veliz-bombs.htm

CBS News Channel Eyewitness Describes 'Secondary Explosions' in WTC:
The following clips originate from CBS Channel 2 in New York. The reporter is in a helicopter as the WTC Towers collapse:
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/april2004/042704secondaryexplosions.htm

The entire interview can be streamed at the link below without having to download it. However, the download version from above doesn't have commercial breaks. The stream below does:
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/270605truthexpose.htm

for further investigation...
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/eyewitnesses.html
Googled 911 bombs, 22,500,000 results

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

Straudos wrote: Nobody ever claimed to have seen a bomb in the WTC on 9/11, not then and not today.

what does that say then for all the people who said there were bombs in the buildings. did they suffer a case of temporary retardation. professional fireman with training became idiots for a short time? good thing we have all these people who claim there were bombs in the buildings so we can just call them retards, idiots or as you like to do, tell them there life experience of that day is wrong and somehow what they heard and saw has been debunked!

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Bombs explode. All explosions are not caused by bombs. It is a patently absurd idea that everyone who mentions hearing an explosion is talking about a bomb.

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

fireman; i saw and heard a bomb

straudos and patriot; no you didn't, it's been debunked

fireman; no, i saw and heard a bomb

S and P; no, no trust us, its been debunked, you never saw or heard anything...research shows you were mistaken

fireman; huh?

S and P; ya the gov't told us what you didn't hear and see already, it's official now!

fireman; oh, thanks for clearing that up!

Knight · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 838

Ever hear a tree snap in half because of massive weight on it? Sounds like a rifle crack
Ever hear a sonic boom? Sounds like an explosion
Ever hear a floor pancake onto the one below it? Sounds like an explosion

Tell people enough times that there was an explosion and they will believe it. Do you know about 'crowd mentality'? Stand on a corner and look up at a building... soon people will be looking up next to you wondering what you are looking at... tell them that you see a guy ready to jump and given time, they will make themselves see it when in reality, there is no such thing.

topnut · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 220

Patriot911 wrote: Bombs explode. All explosions are not caused by bombs. It is a patently absurd idea that everyone who mentions hearing an explosion is talking about a bomb.

you guys are ridiculous!

people hear explosions, fireman say there are bombs in the building and then buildings come down like controlled demo...what is WRONG with you people!

If you will never concede anything, can I ask you one question then.

Do you atleast see why people would think there is more to the collapse of the twin towers than the official story and why it looks like controlled demo?