Political Crossfire Forums

[DSwain]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/06/israel-plans-to-buy-over-100-f35s/index.php

Someone else on the order books for JSF. Wonder how the Israelis will do with technology transfer?

[Plato & Socrates]

Dig deep into your pockets my American cousins, and help supplement Israeli armed forces with more Aid, which is'nt paid back. With your Medicare falling to pieces, its comforting to know your hard earned tax dollars are going abroad and bringing you added grief.

[Duchifas]

Plato & Socrates wrote: Dig deep into your pockets my American cousins, and help supplement Israeli armed forces with more Aid, which is'nt paid back. With your Medicare falling to pieces, its comforting to know your hard earned tax dollars are going abroad and bringing you added grief.

Speaking of unpaid American help, are you talking as a Brit or as a European? :lol:

[Trent Steel]

Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: Dig deep into your pockets my American cousins, and help supplement Israeli armed forces with more Aid, which is'nt paid back. With your Medicare falling to pieces, its comforting to know your hard earned tax dollars are going abroad and bringing you added grief.

Speaking of unpaid American help, are you talking as a Brit or as a European? :lol:

Are you speaking of the bankrupt state the US left the UK in after its war profiteering? If you don’t know your history the UK did empty its gold vaults to pay its debts back
No fish and chips and no tea can make people crazy =]

[superskippy]

We are footing the bill for these planes Plato, and if you read the article one of the main reasons we didnt look into the F-22 aside from the US upgrade of it's airfleet and thus need for them, was the high price tag.

We get military grants just as Egypt and other nations do, but it would take years for all the grants to help us pay for this massive purchase.

Also contrary to what you may beleive the vast bulk of what we have been given have been loans or contractural loans etc, and we have yet to default on any of them.

The rest are from specefic agreements such as the Wye agreement or the FMF which allocates funds all over the world. We have also been trying to wean it down and supported the American congress when it cut down grants, and by 2010 we will have completely phased out the economic grants.

[mendosan]

We finnish off paying a US war loan in December.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm

[DSwain]

Britain's good for the money! Glad we've finally paid for the use of FDR's garden hose!

SuperSkippy - how do the Israelis usually do with technology transfer with the US? The UK is having a few problems with the JSF at the moment, though hopefully there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

[Plato & Socrates]

Trent Steel wrote: Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: Dig deep into your pockets my American cousins, and help supplement Israeli armed forces with more Aid, which is'nt paid back. With your Medicare falling to pieces, its comforting to know your hard earned tax dollars are going abroad and bringing you added grief.

Speaking of unpaid American help, are you talking as a Brit or as a European? :lol:

Are you speaking of the bankrupt state the US left the UK in after its war profiteering? If you don’t know your history the UK did empty its gold vaults to pay its debts back
No fish and chips and no tea can make people crazy =]

You got in there before me Trent Steel. We Brits busted our guts to pay back for WW2 our loans from the Yanks.
Will Israel? I bloody doubt it, the frigging leeches! They'll suck America dry first and drag them down with them.
Dont forget this money is most urgent to continue the occupation, for such a jaunt is an expensive hobby not only in monetary form but also in lives.

[superskippy]

Quote: SuperSkippy - how do the Israelis usually do with technology transfer with the US? The UK is having a few problems with the JSF at the moment, though hopefully there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

We're having the same problam you guys are, the Americans wont release the software or source codes for the aircraft to us or you or many of the other participants. We're all hoping it becomes available soon or after development is finalized.

I do want to make a proud mention that the new aircraft helmets being used for JSF are being developed in Israel for the use of all joint nations.

Quote: Will Israel? I bloody doubt it, the frigging leeches! They'll suck America dry first and drag them down with them.

Please find a loan we defaulted on. As more than 90% of all US aid has been in the form of business, military, and open loans and contractural loans.

What makes our grants unique is not the funds, but the way it is given. It goes directly to our government not to any special department.

[DSwain]

superskippy wrote: Quote: SuperSkippy - how do the Israelis usually do with technology transfer with the US? The UK is having a few problems with the JSF at the moment, though hopefully there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

We're having the same problam you guys are, the Americans wont release the software or source codes for the aircraft to us or you or many of the other participants. We're all hoping it becomes available soon or after development is finalized.

I do want to make a proud mention that the new aircraft helmets being used for JSF are being developed in Israel for the use of all joint nations.

Quote: Will Israel? I bloody doubt it, the frigging leeches! They'll suck America dry first and drag them down with them.

Please find a loan we defaulted on. As more than 90% of all US aid has been in the form of business, military, and open loans and contractural loans.

What makes our grants unique is not the funds, but the way it is given. It goes directly to our government not to any special department.

I didn't know about the helmets! Well, Israelis have always made good kit so am sure they will be well up to the job. Does the IDF do its own maintenance on your F14's/F15's? Maintenance is one thing that the Australians are very keen on keeping in-house.

And Plato - what's the problem? That we've paid back the loans we took out? Or that US military assistance is given to third nations? Or is it just predictable Israel bashing? If it's the latter, why don't you join any one of the hundreds of anti-Israel threads that litter these forums and spout there to your heart's content. You're taking us off-topic.

[Straudos]

Last I checked, only Finland paid back the WW2 loans. Even if Britain pays back the loans now, I'm guessing inflation wasn't factored in.

EDIT: Also, it looks like Britain never fully paid back the WWI loans either.

[superskippy]

Quote: I didn't know about the helmets! Well, Israelis have always made good kit so am sure they will be well up to the job. Does the IDF do its own maintenance on your F14's/F15's? Maintenance is one thing that the Australians are very keen on keeping in-house.

Yep, I dont recall what the British are working on but I beleive they have technicians and developers on site right alongside the Americans.

Yes we maintain our own aircraft, infact the bulk of our F model aircraft are upgraded and changed to custom made Israeli models. Though this is more apparent with our older French planes that we retooled to make modern.

We also have what is often more important than our planes, our pilots. We have the modern "Ace of Aces" for the 20th century Giora Epstein who has shot down more Jet Fighters than any other person on the planet thus far. A total tally of 10 Mig-21's, 2 Mig-17's, 4 SU-17's, 2 SU-20's, as well as an MI-8 Hind. Following we also hold the next number 2,3,4 and 5 slots for top aces.

Sorry about that rather off topic paragraph... it's just a bit of pride that gets through sometimes. :lol:

[DSwain]

Straudos wrote: Last I checked, only Finland paid back the WW2 loans. Even if Britain pays back the loans now, I'm guessing inflation wasn't factored in.

EDIT: Also, it looks like Britain never fully paid back the WWI loans either.

Britain is still owed loans we made to other countries during the First World War. I'm surprised some enterprising debt collectors don't get in on this action.....

[DSwain]

superskippy wrote: Quote: I didn't know about the helmets! Well, Israelis have always made good kit so am sure they will be well up to the job. Does the IDF do its own maintenance on your F14's/F15's? Maintenance is one thing that the Australians are very keen on keeping in-house.

Yep, I dont recall what the British are working on but I beleive they have technicians and developers on site right alongside the Americans.

Yes we maintain our own aircraft, infact the bulk of our F model aircraft are upgraded and changed to custom made Israeli models. Though this is more apparent with our older French planes that we retooled to make modern.

We also have what is often more important than our planes, our pilots. We have the modern "Ace of Aces" for the 20th century Giora Epstein who has shot down more Jet Fighters than any other person on the planet thus far. A total tally of 10 Mig-21's, 2 Mig-17's, 4 SU-17's, 2 SU-20's, as well as an MI-8 Hind. Following we also hold the next number 2,3,4 and 5 slots for top aces.

Sorry about that rather off topic paragraph... it's just a bit of pride that gets through sometimes. :lol:

That's close enough to the topic IMO. How many Mirages is the IDF still flying?

Yes, it's easy to forget that there really have been relatively few conflicts between nations deploying jet fighters. That's a very impressive tally from Epstein - picked up during the Yom Kippur war?

[Duchifas]

DSwain wrote: Britain's good for the money! Glad we've finally paid for the use of FDR's garden hose!

:wink:

I was just addressing P & S, who for some reason loves to count other people's money.

[superskippy]

Quote: That's close enough to the topic IMO. How many Mirages is the IDF still flying?

Lets see... I dont think we fly any complete Mirage models, I think all of the French models have been converted to Nesher and Kfir models. Those are the equivalent of later period fighters than the Mirage.

Quote: Yes, it's easy to forget that there really have been relatively few conflicts between nations deploying jet fighters. That's a very impressive tally from Epstein - picked up during the Yom Kippur war?

Started in 1970 during the war of attrition.

Quote: I was just addressing P & S, who for some reason loves to count other people's money.

:lol:

[jimmyz]

mendosan wrote: We finnish off paying a US war loan in December.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm

I would have forgiven the debt,or at least any interest.Not many friends in the world as good as the Brit's.

[Kt]

More weapons for a terrorist nation to enforce it's supremacy.

[DSwain]

Duchifas wrote: DSwain wrote: Britain's good for the money! Glad we've finally paid for the use of FDR's garden hose!

:wink:

I was just addressing P & S, who for some reason loves to count other people's money.

I quite agree - didn't see the point of their posts either as we're not talking about British taxpayers' money but rather a sovereign government buying warplanes.

[cap'n queasy]

I don't see what the big deal is. The important thing is that Israel gets the aircraft it needs.

The STOVL issue craft would have been sweet for Israel. Should have maybe got a few of the F35B series, as well. .