Political Crossfire Forums

[feederband]

In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

[mojo]

feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

Yes . Religion gives guidance to many peoples lives. I can cite many examples in my personal life where people look to a higher power for guidance. What they are seeking is not really God so much as they are seeking truth and happiness. But they find in their quest for truth that God is truth.

Religion is a bedrock of principle. Religion won't fall into the trap of relativism. Relativism is dangerous because it would allow for the destruction of the family. The family is the one thing that truly matters in this world.

[Darth Tiberius]

feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

[feederband]

politicalmojo wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

Yes . Religion gives guidance to many peoples lives. I can cite many examples in my personal life where people look to a higher power for guidance. What they are seeking is not really God so much as they are seeking truth and happiness. But they find in their quest for truth that God is truth.

Religion is a bedrock of principle. Religion won't fall into the trap of relativism. Relativism is dangerous because it would allow for the destruction of the family. The family is the one thing that truly matters in this world.

I understand your points...But if you were to look at my personal life as a ATHEIST you would see a family of five..Two people that have been married for 16 years yet I have no use for religion...And yes my family is truly all that matters...

And as far as religion being use for guidance..I tend to agree...And I think it to be mentally beneficial to many..But maybe our failures are because we rely on this to much instead of just handling what ever may arise..

[feederband]

Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

[Gilbert1908]

feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?

[Darth Tiberius]

feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Well people must always have something to describe what they cannot explain or understand. That's what religion is. Religion is also a opiate of the masses. A thing to pursuade those from reason and logic. I know what you mean when you see it as a mind cocoon. Religion has created more trouble then good.

[feederband]

Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?


A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

[Gilbert1908]

feederband wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?


A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

By being a Catholic I AM REQUIRED to believe in life with NO physical boundries.

I MUST view ALL LIFE is PRECIOUS.

I MUST love both my neighbor AND my enemy as myself.

I MUST believe that EACH human being is my equal because EACH human being is loved by God

I MUST live a life based upon service to others.

I sin if I live a life of selfish self centeredness.

Now explain to me how that differs in any substantive way with your lovely sentiment which I obviously share.

[Carlin]

feederband wrote:

A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

Totally. I asked in another thread what was so awful about life that we have to withdraw into make believing there is a heaven in the clouds waiting for us? I feel that the more people begin to look at life and the possibility (just the possibility) that it might be all we have, then the more we can learn and the more suffering we can lessen.

[eynon]

feederband wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?


A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

no war or starvation or poverty?!

:lol: this is getting stupid.....athiest utompianism, what a joke!

look I know many, many Christians for which their faith is the only thing holding them to any standard of what you would characterize as "moral decentcy"......I'm one of them.

Without something to raise me out of the mud, s**t, and cum that is this reality all I am is a monkey with my tribe.....my tribe is all that matters because it keeps me alive. I have no connection to those outside my tribe because their intrests are not my intrests.

Basically I'd become very Roman in my perceptions of reality, because they had it figured out better then anybody else. Humans are tools, just like animals, they are mearly a mean to your end.......my intrests are what matters, how can you help me serve my intrests?

I know some are going to say "THAT'S HORRIBLE" or "NOT ALL ATHIESTS ARE LIKE THAT" or "YOU NEED GOD TO MAKE YOU MORAL, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!"

Frankly I don't care, you're not my judge, your fools to consider the intrests of other, or your just too weak to realize what you are and to take what you want in life.

Many, many people I know, including myself would feel this way without religion.......what impact would that have on the world(shrug), without God I wouldn't care.

[feederband]

Eynon81 wrote: feederband wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?


A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

no war or starvation or poverty?!

:lol: this is getting stupid.....athiest utompianism, what a joke!

look I know many, many Christians for which their faith is the only thing holding them to any standard of what you would characterize as "moral decentcy"......I'm one of them.

Without something to raise me out of the mud, s**t, and cum that is this reality all I am is a monkey with my tribe.....my tribe is all that matters because it keeps me alive. I have no connection to those outside my tribe because their intrests are not my intrests.

Basically I'd become very Roman in my perceptions of reality, because they had it figured out better then anybody else. Humans are tools, just like animals, they are mearly a mean to your end.......my intrests are what matters, how can you help me serve my intrests?

I know some are going to say "THAT'S HORRIBLE" or "NOT ALL ATHIESTS ARE LIKE THAT" or "YOU NEED GOD TO MAKE YOU MORAL, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!"

Frankly I don't care, you're not my judge, your fools to consider the intrests of other, or your just too weak to realize what you are and to take what you want in life.

Many, many people I know, including myself would feel this way without religion.......what impact would that have on the world(shrug), without God I wouldn't care.

I have read this 10 times and I still don't get your point...Please summarize this post...

[Carlin]

[quote="Eynon81]
no war or starvation or poverty?!

:lol: this is getting stupid.....athiest utompianism, what a joke!

look I know many, many Christians for which their faith is the only thing holding them to any standard of what you would characterize as "moral decentcy"......I'm one of them.

Without something to raise me out of the mud, s**t, and cum that is this reality all I am is a monkey with my tribe.....my tribe is all that matters because it keeps me alive. I have no connection to those outside my tribe because their intrests are not my intrests.

Basically I'd become very Roman in my perceptions of reality, because they had it figured out better then anybody else. Humans are tools, just like animals, they are mearly a mean to your end.......my intrests are what matters, how can you help me serve my intrests?

I know some are going to say "THAT'S HORRIBLE" or "NOT ALL ATHIESTS ARE LIKE THAT" or "YOU NEED GOD TO MAKE YOU MORAL, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!"

Frankly I don't care, you're not my judge, your fools to consider the intrests of other, or your just too weak to realize what you are and to take what you want in life.

Many, many people I know, including myself would feel this way without religion.......what impact would that have on the world(shrug), without God I wouldn't care.[/quote]

Yeah, please explain what you mean a little more clearer.

[eynon]

feederband wrote: Eynon81 wrote: feederband wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: feederband wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: feederband wrote: In a earlier thread I asked what would the world be like if religion never existed...

Now I ask the question what if today everyone in the world decided there is no need for religion?

We no longer have the issues of the dark ages..Do we need religion in today's world for us to survive..?

We no longer need religion since as man's knowledge grows more and more in the developed world are falling away from any religion. the more developed we get the more secular we get. But the world will never be totally free from religion. But if we ever did we could finally understand the world with logic and reason. Not with superstition.

To me its really amazing that it has lasted this long...I wish people would open their eyes and minds and break out of the mind cocoon the live in....
They have no reason to live in the fear they do...

Why do you describe religious people as have their eyes and minds closed to?

What is it you think I will see if I opened my eyes (assuming mine are closed)?

And what would I find out if I opened my mind (assuming it is closed)?


A world with no boundaries...A world where all life are connected and with meaning... Probably a life without wars or poverty or starvation ...Life is truly amazing...More than any of your gods could possibly conceive..Yet most of us live in our little boxes oblivious to the world around us...Some are just doing as they told and waiting for their award in their afterlife ...

no war or starvation or poverty?!

:lol: this is getting stupid.....athiest utompianism, what a joke!

look I know many, many Christians for which their faith is the only thing holding them to any standard of what you would characterize as "moral decentcy"......I'm one of them.

Without something to raise me out of the mud, s**t, and cum that is this reality all I am is a monkey with my tribe.....my tribe is all that matters because it keeps me alive. I have no connection to those outside my tribe because their intrests are not my intrests.

Basically I'd become very Roman in my perceptions of reality, because they had it figured out better then anybody else. Humans are tools, just like animals, they are mearly a mean to your end.......my intrests are what matters, how can you help me serve my intrests?

I know some are going to say "THAT'S HORRIBLE" or "NOT ALL ATHIESTS ARE LIKE THAT" or "YOU NEED GOD TO MAKE YOU MORAL, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!"

Frankly I don't care, you're not my judge, your fools to consider the intrests of other, or your just too weak to realize what you are and to take what you want in life.

Many, many people I know, including myself would feel this way without religion.......what impact would that have on the world(shrug), without God I wouldn't care.

I have read this 10 times and I still don't get your point...Please summarize this post...

10 times? dude my rants are never worth that much of a read :lol:

ok in summation.....religion makes me and a lot of other Christians I know, nicer people.....

[Carlin]

I hope so. I just don't know why some people HAVE believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that when we die, we will float up to unadulterated bliss in order to function. Why is life that difficult? My point is that it doesn't need to be. Most of what we kill and die for are just constructs in our mind. If we understood to a degree that there was a possibility this existence is all we have, then we wouldn't be so hyped for war, murder, and hate. Then when we do die and there happens to be a magical place of an adulterated bliss, then we can say, "holy s**t, there is an afterlife! That's pretty cool! And that whole life on Earth thing was pretty cool too."

[Gilbert1908]

Carlin wrote: I hope so. I just don't know why some people HAVE believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that when we die, we will float up to unadulterated bliss in order to function. Why is life that difficult? My point is that it doesn't need to be. Most of what we kill and die for are just constructs in our mind. If we understood to a degree that there was a possibility this existence is all we have, then we wouldn't be so hyped for war, murder, and hate. Then when we do die and there happens to be a magical place of an adulterated bliss, then we can say, "holy s**t, there is an afterlife! That's pretty cool! And that whole life on Earth thing was pretty cool too."

As a Catholic I would agree that to believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that we live in the sky after death is about as silly a religion as one could make up. I would never believe such nonsense.

Most wars are not fought over concepts but over TANGIBLE material earthly things, like LAND and MONEY which both equal earthly power.

And as far as murder, hate and war go, Christianity as a theology could not be more clear on all three. What people do as a matter of their own free will is another story altogether.

To blame Christianity for the evil action of a man who claims to be Christian you must ignore the essence of both.

[Carlin]

[quote="Gilbert1908"] Carlin wrote: I hope so. I just don't know why some people HAVE believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that when we die, we will float up to unadulterated bliss in order to function. Why is life that difficult? My point is that it doesn't need to be. Most of what we kill and die for are just constructs in our mind. If we understood to a degree that there was a possibility this existence is all we have, then we wouldn't be so hyped for war, murder, and hate. Then when we do die and there happens to be a magical place of an adulterated bliss, then we can say, "holy s**t, there is an afterlife! That's pretty cool! And that whole life on Earth thing was pretty cool too."

Quote: As a Catholic I would agree that to believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that we live in the sky after death is about as silly a religion as one could make up. I would never believe such nonsense.

As a lapsed Catholic, regardless of where the God or heaven is and to the extent to which it's involved in reality doesn't make much sense to me. Hardly matters though.

Quote: Most wars are not fought over concepts but over TANGIBLE material earthly things, like LAND and MONEY which both equal earthly power.

And as far as murder, hate and war go, Christianity as a theology could not be more clear on all three. What people do as a matter of their own free will is another story altogether.

To blame Christianity for the evil action of a man who claims to be Christian you must ignore the essence of both.


Religion takes center stage at the core of ethnocentrism. People believing the way they live is better than the way others live is a major factor in war, murder, and genocide. Why wasn't there enough land for Colonists to share with the Native Americans? Why is there no compromise in sight to the Isreal and palestine conflict? I see it firstly people believing their ways are better, their religion is right, and God is on their side. This mentality empowers people to kill and destroy others; believing full well God approves of them. Maybe "no God" would mellow out a lot of these tendencies tremendously?

[Gilbert1908]

[quote="Carlin"] Gilbert1908 wrote: Carlin wrote: I hope so. I just don't know why some people HAVE believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that when we die, we will float up to unadulterated bliss in order to function. Why is life that difficult? My point is that it doesn't need to be. Most of what we kill and die for are just constructs in our mind. If we understood to a degree that there was a possibility this existence is all we have, then we wouldn't be so hyped for war, murder, and hate. Then when we do die and there happens to be a magical place of an adulterated bliss, then we can say, "holy s**t, there is an afterlife! That's pretty cool! And that whole life on Earth thing was pretty cool too."

Quote: As a Catholic I would agree that to believe there is a magical entity controlling everything and that we live in the sky after death is about as silly a religion as one could make up. I would never believe such nonsense.

As a lapsed Catholic, regardless of where the God or heaven is and to the extent to which it's involved in reality doesn't make much sense to me. Hardly matters though.

Quote: Most wars are not fought over concepts but over TANGIBLE material earthly things, like LAND and MONEY which both equal earthly power.

And as far as murder, hate and war go, Christianity as a theology could not be more clear on all three. What people do as a matter of their own free will is another story altogether.

To blame Christianity for the evil action of a man who claims to be Christian you must ignore the essence of both.


Religion takes center stage at the core of ethnocentrism. People believing the way they live is better than the way others live is a major factor in war, murder, and genocide. Why wasn't there enough land for Colonists to share with the Native Americans? Why is there no compromise in sight to the Isreal and palestine conflict? I see it firstly people believing their ways are better, their religion is right, and God is on their side. This mentality empowers people to kill and destroy others; believing full well God approves of them. Maybe "no God" would mellow out a lot of these tendencies tremendously?

If one places his ethnic group above all others he is sinning as a Christian, regardless of what he claims to the world.

The American expansion had NOTHING to with religion and EVERTHING to do with LAND, POWER and CONTROL.

No doubt the Palestinian-Israeli issues have a variety of levels but again the issues are NOT religious but historical land claims and the right for a country to exist or govern its own people etc..

And again speaking as a Catholic comfortable with the theology of Christianity there is NO Christian dogma or beliefs that support any form of murder or destruction, quite the contrary love of enemy and neighbor as well as the required belief that ALL life is precious and MUST be protected are an obvious message even to those unfamiliar with more specific examples.

So your assertion about religion (again speaking for Christianity) supporting such things murder etc. etc. is patently false.

[Carlin]

Quote:
If one places his ethnic group above all others he is sinning as a Christian, regardless of what he claims to the world.

The American expansion had NOTHING to with religion and EVERTHING to do with LAND, POWER and CONTROL.

No doubt the Palestinian-Israeli issues have a variety of levels but again the issues are NOT religious but historical land claims and the right for a country to exist or govern its own people etc..

And again speaking as a Catholic comfortable with the theology of Christianity there is NO Christian dogma or beliefs that support any form of murder or destruction, quite the contrary love of enemy and neighbor as well as the required belief that ALL life is precious and MUST be protected are an obvious message even to those unfamiliar with more specific examples.

So your assertion about religion (again speaking for Christianity) supporting such things murder etc. etc. is patently false.

I don't think Christianity, Islam, Judiasm or any religion essentially supports violent triumph over others. I'm saying that as an aspect of the human psyche, it is our first inclination to think what we believe is better than what others believe. Religion is pulled into that. The religions may not say to be violent, but it is often used to justify horrific acts.

And yes, the Native Americans were viewed as Godless savages and Israel is proclaimed to be holy land. The colonists also thought they were doing the Africans a favor by rescuing them from their "primitive" existence and converting them to Chrisitianity. It's all rooted in intolerance and intolerance of religion is right there with it.

[eynon]

Carlin wrote: Quote:
If one places his ethnic group above all others he is sinning as a Christian, regardless of what he claims to the world.

The American expansion had NOTHING to with religion and EVERTHING to do with LAND, POWER and CONTROL.

No doubt the Palestinian-Israeli issues have a variety of levels but again the issues are NOT religious but historical land claims and the right for a country to exist or govern its own people etc..

And again speaking as a Catholic comfortable with the theology of Christianity there is NO Christian dogma or beliefs that support any form of murder or destruction, quite the contrary love of enemy and neighbor as well as the required belief that ALL life is precious and MUST be protected are an obvious message even to those unfamiliar with more specific examples.

So your assertion about religion (again speaking for Christianity) supporting such things murder etc. etc. is patently false.

I don't think Christianity, Islam, Judiasm or any religion essentially supports violent triumph over others. I'm saying that as an aspect of the human psyche, it is our first inclination to think what we believe is better than what others believe. Religion is pulled into that. The religions may not say to be violent, but it is often used to justify horrific acts.

And yes, the Native Americans were viewed as Godless savages and Israel is proclaimed to be holy land. The colonists also thought they were doing the Africans a favor by rescuing them from their "primitive" existence and converting them to Chrisitianity. It's all rooted in intolerance and intolerance of religion is right there with it.

it wasn't intolerance, it was economics......colonists needed land, sugar planations needed labor......