Political Crossfire Forums

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

This question is directed to Mormons...

Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what he was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?

name · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 144

The Bible was written and rewritten by humans.

eynon · Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject:

name wrote: The Bible was written and rewritten by humans.

\/ ah-ah.....no thread hyjacking...it's rude.

Saf · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 377

Eynon81 wrote: name wrote: The Bible was written and rewritten by humans.

\/ ah-ah.....no thread hyjacking...it's rude.
That's a legitimate answer. What did your post contribute?

My answer: while the Bible is at least historically based on the personage of Jesus, the book of Mormon is clearly a fabrication.

Todd D. · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:03 am Post subject:

Quote: Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what I was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?
Saying that "God" wrote the Bible but "Joseph Smith" wrote the Book of Mormon is a bit unfair in addressing a Mormon. Wouldn't that be like a Jew saying to you "Did you really need the New Testament, or do you need the Tanakh? How is the Tanakh incomplete that it needed Paul or Luke or Mark to come along later and finish it up?"

To a Mormon, as far as I know, the Book of Mormon was inspired in the same way that the New Testament was inspired, so suggestig that the Bible was written by God whereas the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith, is an entirely incorrect way to phrase the question.

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2597

Todd D. wrote: Quote: Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what I was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?
Saying that "God" wrote the Bible but "Joseph Smith" wrote the Book of Mormon is a bit unfair in addressing a Mormon. Wouldn't that be like a Jew saying to you "Did you really need the New Testament, or do you need the Tanakh? How is the Tanakh incomplete that it needed Paul or Luke or Mark to come along later and finish it up?"

To a Mormon, as far as I know, the Book of Mormon was inspired in the same way that the New Testament was inspired, so suggestig that the Bible was written by God whereas the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith, is an entirely incorrect way to phrase the question.

That is really funny since that was what I was thinking when I read the original post :lol: 8:)

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:

Todd D. wrote: Quote: Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what I was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?
Saying that "God" wrote the Bible but "Joseph Smith" wrote the Book of Mormon is a bit unfair in addressing a Mormon. Wouldn't that be like a Jew saying to you "Did you really need the New Testament, or do you need the Tanakh? How is the Tanakh incomplete that it needed Paul or Luke or Mark to come along later and finish it up?"

To a Mormon, as far as I know, the Book of Mormon was inspired in the same way that the New Testament was inspired, so suggestig that the Bible was written by God whereas the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith, is an entirely incorrect way to phrase the question.

Exactly. Isn't the story that Joseph Smith "found" the books anyway, after an Angel dictated them?

Hyde · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Mormons do you need...

LetsGetReal wrote: This question is directed to Mormons...

Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what I was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?

God didnt write the bible, man did. and what is so wrong about another look at Jesus's teachings. as long as it gets the point across, whats wrong with it?

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Actually Todd I would say its quite different, since Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ so for them to say its wrong is a basic belief they have. However Mormons believe in Christ, so for them to say that the Book of Mormon is just as important is inherently different than your little comparison with the Jews.

Also Central an angel did not talk to Joseph Smith because Jesus told us his teachings quite well when he was here.

papershredder · Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 54

LetsGetReal wrote: Actually Todd I would say its quite different, since Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ so for them to say its wrong is a basic belief they have. However Mormons believe in Christ, so for them to say that the Book of Mormon is just as important is inherently different than your little comparison with the Jews.

Also Central an angel did not talk to Joseph Smith because Jesus told us his teachings quite well when he was here.

right. why do we need 2 of the same story.

Hyde · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:

papershredder wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Actually Todd I would say its quite different, since Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ so for them to say its wrong is a basic belief they have. However Mormons believe in Christ, so for them to say that the Book of Mormon is just as important is inherently different than your little comparison with the Jews.

Also Central an angel did not talk to Joseph Smith because Jesus told us his teachings quite well when he was here.

right. why do we need 2 of the same story.

why dont we need one. if some people prefer a diffrent version of jesus's teachings, why not let them. as long as it gets his point across, i see no problem with it.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

LetsGetReal wrote: This question is directed to Mormons...

Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible?
No. You don't need it. You're not lookoing at the book of mormon correctly. It's not something that completely the Bible. It's seperate. The Bible is the record of a people living in the area of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Cannaan, Palestine, Jerusalem. The Book of Mormon is a record of a people living in North America.

Quote: Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?
Did God write the Bible, or did man? Why would you say that if the Bible is incomplete, that this means GOD is the one at fault, and not the people were were writing/assembling the Bible?

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

Hyde wrote: God didnt write the bible, man did. and what is so wrong about another look at Jesus's teachings. as long as it gets the point across, whats wrong with it?
True dat. But that brings up the question - Does it get the point across? There are thousands of seperate Christian denominations, all believing things different, sometimes radically different, than each other. Some beleive you must be baptised by immersion. Some believe sprinkling is okay, and other believe baptism isn't necessary at all. Some believe it is faith alone that saves, others beleive those who do good works but have no faith are saved. Some believe the Bible is 100% correct, while others do not. Some believe you must take sacrament every week, some every month, others every year. Does the NT get the point across?

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Exactly. Isn't the story that Joseph Smith "found" the books anyway, after an Angel dictated them?
The "story" is that in 600BC, some people started keeping a record of their dealings with the Lord, their prophecies, etc., and the kings or the prophets of those times wrote the stories down. Then, around 400 AD, another prophet summarized many of the writings, and buried them in the ground. Then, this same man, now an angel, appeared to Joseph Smith, and after a few years told Joseph Smith where he had buried the writings.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24198

Todd D. wrote: Quote: Do you need the Book of Mormon to go to heaven or do you need the Bible? I don't understand how Jesus's teachings weren't enough. How were they so incomplete they needed Joseph Smith to finish it up. Where in the bible does it express a man will come later on and finish what I was trying to convey. Was god not smart enough to explain in his own words what he wanted?
Saying that "God" wrote the Bible but "Joseph Smith" wrote the Book of Mormon is a bit unfair in addressing a Mormon. Wouldn't that be like a Jew saying to you "Did you really need the New Testament, or do you need the Tanakh? How is the Tanakh incomplete that it needed Paul or Luke or Mark to come along later and finish it up?"

To a Mormon, as far as I know, the Book of Mormon was inspired in the same way that the New Testament was inspired, so suggestig that the Bible was written by God whereas the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith, is an entirely incorrect way to phrase the question.

Have you read the OT?

It doesn't have closure....and does speak of another that would come with that closure.

Todd D. · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:44 am Post subject:

Quote: Actually Todd I would say its quite different, since Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ so for them to say its wrong is a basic belief they have. However Mormons believe in Christ, so for them to say that the Book of Mormon is just as important is inherently different than your little comparison with the Jews.
Not really. I don't recall Jesus ever speaking over the Canonical nature of the New Testament books (probably because, oh, you know, he ascended long before any of the books were written), so the issue is one of interpretation.

Quote: Also Central an angel did not talk to Joseph Smith because Jesus told us his teachings quite well when he was here.
Oh, the old "Nuh uh because I said so" defense. Impeccable.

Again, you are not framing the question fairly in any way. It's not an "Either you have the Book of Mormon or you have the Bible" thing. Mormons, to the best of my knowledge, utilize both the Bible and the Book of Mormom (as well as "Doctrines and Covenents" and "The Pearl of Great Price"). The reason that you disagree is because you (like I do) believe in the Seal of Revelation, that there have been no new revelations since the final canonical book was written. They do not.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Book of Mormon is a record of a people living in North America.

An extremely inaccurate "record". :lol:

Hyde · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Mormons do you need...

CrossEyedMary wrote: Hyde wrote: God didnt write the bible, man did. and what is so wrong about another look at Jesus's teachings. as long as it gets the point across, whats wrong with it?
True dat. But that brings up the question - Does it get the point across? There are thousands of seperate Christian denominations, all believing things different, sometimes radically different, than each other. Some beleive you must be baptised by immersion. Some believe sprinkling is okay, and other believe baptism isn't necessary at all. Some believe it is faith alone that saves, others beleive those who do good works but have no faith are saved. Some believe the Bible is 100% correct, while others do not. Some believe you must take sacrament every week, some every month, others every year. Does the NT get the point across?

all of those are just specics though. little things that people made to make them feel better for the hope they will help them enter heaven. if jesus's teachings of sacrifice, love, and being, well, good, gets across, no matter what the specifcs, i got no problem with it.

Hyde · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:42 am Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Book of Mormon is a record of a people living in North America.

An extremely inaccurate "record". :lol:

were you there? did you see the angel that joseph smith saw (if he saw one.)

p.s. did any of you see the south park mormon episode. it was hilarious. :lol: j/w

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

Todd D. wrote: Again, you are not framing the question fairly in any way. It's not an "Either you have the Book of Mormon or you have the Bible" thing. Mormons, to the best of my knowledge, utilize both the Bible and the Book of Mormom (as well as "Doctrines and Covenents" and "The Pearl of Great Price").
Yes, you're correct. In fact, they're all cross referenced with each other, so you can read them all together. Like I can read something in the BoM and then find places in the Bible where it says similar things, or vice versa. We use them in a very complimentary manner.