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Usaman111
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 7
Location: maryland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: Abortion |
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| Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter. |
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Nice Geod
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I always found the "It's her choice" argument very unconvincing. I am pro-choice, but not because of that argument. One must first prove that it's not really murder to kill a fetus - the only time that it is acceptable to kill is when another murder can be prevented by that killing. The "it's her choice" argument does not prove abortion to be right; it merely proves that it is the woman's - not someone else's choice. |
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name
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Quote: I always found the "It's her choice" argument very unconvincing. I am pro-choice, but not because of that argument. One must first prove that it's not really murder to kill a fetus - the only time that it is acceptable to kill is when another murder can be prevented by that killing. The "it's her choice" argument does not prove abortion to be right; it merely proves that it is the woman's - not someone else's choice.
"It's her choice" doesn't try to prove anything. It's just a statement based on the fact that the woman is involved more closely in this issue than anyone else can be and therefore her say inevitably has rather more weight than that of anyone else. |
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AllAmericanMan
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 3606
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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name wrote: Quote: I always found the "It's her choice" argument very unconvincing. I am pro-choice, but not because of that argument. One must first prove that it's not really murder to kill a fetus - the only time that it is acceptable to kill is when another murder can be prevented by that killing. The "it's her choice" argument does not prove abortion to be right; it merely proves that it is the woman's - not someone else's choice.
"It's her choice" doesn't try to prove anything. It's just a statement based on the fact that the woman is involved more closely in this issue than anyone else can be and therefore her say inevitably has rather more weight than that of anyone else.
Women are not qualified biologists of what is and what is not their body nor are they necessarily great philosophers. People are not all as enlightened as we'd like ourselves to be, so we have to have laws. The question is, does abortion infringe upon someone elses rights. "Its my body" and "Its her choice" show a clear lack of grasp on this debate.
Most "pro choice" people even admit embryos are human beings. We know there are 2 bodies present. We know you are ending a unique human life. The question is, should everyone have sexual freedom and disregard our ability to create life by destroying the products of our actions, our offspring before they can be born. Birth is just the arrival of a pre existing life into our presence. The being is just as smart and aware right before he/she leaves the womb than when he/she is outside. The rate of growth remains constant, the pre existing child simply entered a new stage of life. Frankly, just calling yourself Pro choice is a miscarriage of this debate. We know our choices have limits, lets move on to discuss this between pro abortionists and anti abortionists. |
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Hyde
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1062
Location: somewhere in nowhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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name wrote: Quote: I always found the "It's her choice" argument very unconvincing. I am pro-choice, but not because of that argument. One must first prove that it's not really to kill a fetus - the only time that it is acceptable to kill is when another can be prevented by that . The "it's her choice" argument does not prove abortion to be right; it merely proves that it is the woman's - not someone else's choice.
"It's her choice" doesn't try to prove anything. It's just a statement based on the fact that the woman is involved more closely in this issue than anyone else can be and therefore her say inevitably has rather more weight than that of anyone else.
i think "its her choice" is more stating your stance then trying to convince some one of your beleif. |
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ShirzadianM
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
As long as you believe that "secure[ing] the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity" means "terminating" our posterity, then you should have no problem getting to sleep tonight...
I however do not endorse this sort of Constitutional violation... |
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Ek0nomik
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: La Fleur
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
Punctuation helps.
I'm with Nice Geod though, you need something more convincing than "It's her body" to really take a stance on this issue. No worries though, I used to be the same way. |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5146
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
The entire "choice" argument is about an inch deep.
There are a myriad of personal body "choices" that neither men nor women can legally make.
And as has been pointed out, before you decide that "choice" is ultimate freedom you MUST determine what the choice is.
In order for YOU to believe a woman's choice of abortion is more important than maintaining her pregnancy you MUST determine that A. Her abortion does not end a human life (this is medically unsupportable) or B. the human life being terminated has NO value.
As a thinking person choice A. is not supportable as a Christian choice B. is impossible.
You have a dilemma if you want to remain a mainline Christian. |
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ShirzadianM
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
The entire "choice" argument is about an inch deep.
There are a myriad of personal body "choices" that neither men nor women can legally make.
And as has been pointed out, before you decide that "choice" is ultimate freedom you MUST determine what the choice is.
In order for YOU to believe a woman's choice of abortion is more important than maintaining her pregnancy you MUST determine that A. Her abortion does not end a human life (this is medically unsupportable) or B. the human life being terminated has NO value.
As a thinking person choice A. is not supportable as a Christian choice B. is impossible.
You have a dilemma if you want to remain a mainline Christian.
Well put, however putting Christianity aside, can you honestly say that our unborn posterity has no value, it has potential, which for some Non-Christians can merit value... |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5146
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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ShirzadianM wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
The entire "choice" argument is about an inch deep.
There are a myriad of personal body "choices" that neither men nor women can legally make.
And as has been pointed out, before you decide that "choice" is ultimate freedom you MUST determine what the choice is.
In order for YOU to believe a woman's choice of abortion is more important than maintaining her pregnancy you MUST determine that A. Her abortion does not end a human life (this is medically unsupportable) or B. the human life being terminated has NO value.
As a thinking person choice A. is not supportable as a Christian choice B. is impossible.
You have a dilemma if you want to remain a mainline Christian.
Well put, however putting Christianity aside, can you honestly say that our unborn posterity has no value, it has potential, which for some Non-Christians can merit value...
Of course you are correct, but this person began with the premise that they were Christian and Christianity has a specific position on human life and its value. Since it is impossible to know the philosophy of a "non-Christian" I could not presume whether or not they place value on a developing human life. |
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ShirzadianM
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: ShirzadianM wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
The entire "choice" argument is about an inch deep.
There are a myriad of personal body "choices" that neither men nor women can legally make.
And as has been pointed out, before you decide that "choice" is ultimate freedom you MUST determine what the choice is.
In order for YOU to believe a woman's choice of abortion is more important than maintaining her pregnancy you MUST determine that A. Her abortion does not end a human life (this is medically unsupportable) or B. the human life being terminated has NO value.
As a thinking person choice A. is not supportable as a Christian choice B. is impossible.
You have a dilemma if you want to remain a mainline Christian.
Well put, however putting Christianity aside, can you honestly say that our unborn posterity has no value, it has potential, which for some Non-Christians can merit value...
Of course you are correct, but this person began with the premise that they were Christian and Christianity has a specific position on human life and its value. Since it is impossible to know the philosophy of a "non-Christian" I could not presume whether or not they place value on a developing human life.
The sad but true reality... |
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good90
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 85
Location: Hoosier Country
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
My view is this. Abortion just puts murder in the fastlane. At least send the baby to and orphanage or something. Let it live. Why do you need to kill it in the first place. It's like saying the president has a choice to kill off all the New England Patriot fans. It's his country, so he should have the choice. He doesn't because it's wrong, and they had a rather crappy season this year. He doesn't need to kill them. (Patriot fans, you are let off the hook... this time!) OK! That was a crappy comparison, but all I know is abortion should be murder. What if your mother decided to abort you? Not saying that your mother doesn't love you, but seriously! Even worse! What if you were a New England Patriots fan! Nothing against them. They have a great assistant coach who caoches Notre Dame, and their kicker is now a Colt. Any way abortion is murder! |
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ShirzadianM
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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good90 wrote: Usaman111 wrote: Just getting from feedback im at a crossroad i am christian and we believe in pro-life,, but my thoughts are pro-choice and I think that what a woman does with here body is not the churches/president/anyones busy noone can tell a woman what to do with there unborn child. SO i am have to go pro-choice and its up to the woman not the pope/pres or anyone else for that matter.
My view is this. Abortion just puts murder in the fastlane. At least send the baby to and orphanage or something. Let it live. Why do you need to kill it in the first place. It's like saying the president has a choice to kill off all the New England Patriot fans. It's his country, so he should have the choice. He doesn't because it's wrong, and they had a rather crappy season this year. He doesn't need to kill them. (Patriot fans, you are let off the hook... this time!) OK! That was a crappy comparison, but all I know is abortion should be murder. What if your mother decided to abort you? Not saying that your mother doesn't love you, but seriously! Even worse! What if you were a New England Patriots fan! Nothing against them. They have a great assistant coach who caoches Notre Dame, and their kicker is now a Colt. Any way abortion is murder!
That is the worst comparison pertaining to abortion that I have ever heard... I am just glad I am not a football fan in general... That is football right...? |
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Plodder
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 803
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yes it is. I think that the comparison is good in the way that it shows that a very powerful man had no right to make descisions for another human that end that person's life. |
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FuturePresident
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Lewis Center, OH
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: Abortion |
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| I believe that abortion should only be allowed when the mother's life is in danger or if she was raped. |
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ShirzadianM
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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FuturePresident wrote: I believe that abortion should only be allowed when the mother's life is in danger or if she was raped.
Why does you logic (preventing abortion when it is legit) stop at rape? Is the life inside worth any less? |
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Plodder
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 803
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| thats why im opposed to aboortion in the case of rape |
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