Political Crossfire Forums

[lucidnightmare]

Quote: Hamas: Islam will conquer U.S., Britain
'Just as the Jews ran from Gaza,' U.S. 'will run' from Iraq, Afghanistan

A new video on the website of the Palestinian terrorist and governing group Hamas promises the eventual defeat and subjugation of Western nations under Islam.

Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in the face of terrorist attacks is present as the prototype for future Israeli and Western behavior in the face of Islamic force, reports Palestinian Media Watch.

The video is a collection of statements by Hamas terrorist leader Yasser Ghalban, who was killed last week by Palestinians among ongoing internal fighting.

The video – which also refers to "our children being released from Guantanamo," the U.S. terrorist detention facility – can be viewed here.


Ghalban declares, "We will rule the nations, by Allah's will, the U.S.A. will be conquered, Israel will be conquered, Rome and Britain will be conquered … ."

Identifying itself as coming from the "Al-Qassam Brigades Media Office," Hamas' "military wing," the leader states on the video:


"The Jihad for Allah ... is the way of Truth and the way for salvation and the way which will lead us to crush the Jews and expel them from our country Palestine.
Just as the Jews ran from Gaza, the Americans will run from Iraq and Afghanistan and the Russians will run from Chechnya, and the Indian will run from Kashmir, and our children will be released from Guantanamo. The prisoners will be released by Allah's will, not by peaceful means and not by agreements, but they will be released by the sword, they will be released by the gun."

Palestinian Media Watch comments that the ideology expressed in the video is similar to the al-Qaida ideology, "anticipating battles with other religions throughout the world," as seen in this example

Hamas, officially considered a terrorist organization by the U.S. government, now governs the Palestinian Authority.

As WorldNetDaily reported last month, the Hamas' children's website included comic strips encouraging hatred of Israelis, who are defined as "evil Zionists."

One strip featured two boys who come upon supposed toys in the street.

"Don't take any of them!" warns one boy. "These are not toys, but booby-trapped bombs that will explode in the hands of those who touch them. They are placed here by the evil Zionists to kill innocent Palestinian children."

The Hamas' children's website was launched in 2002, encouraging kids to follow the example of terrorist suicide bombers

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50763

And these are the people you all wanted us to keep sending money to just bacause they were elected?

[jimmyz]

I liked this part -

Quote: statements by Hamas terrorist leader Yasser Ghalban, who was killed last week by Palestinians among ongoing internal fighting

".......... attention all martyrs!.Do to recent events we will be reducing the number of virgins issued to new arrivals here in Hell to two as we are running low"

[lucidnightmare]

Yea,we will conquer America.Famous last words.

[AKAMad]

Says who ? Well your guys Arabic is better than mine, but I would like to know who did the translation ? I bet a dollar it is MEMRI. Also what is the difference between conquer and convert in Arabic ? Doesn't crusade have as many meanings as Jihad ?

[hallstrom]

AKAmad asks Quote: Also what is the difference between conquer and convert in Arabic ?

Does it matter. Most Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. of strong faith who would convert to Islam would only do so if conquered and then the conversion would probably be false. Russia tried to convert their people to Atheism but it didn't work. Most Atheists would not become Muslims unless conquered. How many Shias convert to Sunni or vice versa even though both are Muslim.

Whether Hamas meant to conquer or convert you should know from their past actions that they intend to do it through use of force and terrorism.

[AKAMad]

hallstrom wrote: AKAmad asks Quote: Also what is the difference between conquer and convert in Arabic ?

Does it matter. Most Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. of strong faith who would convert to Islam would only do so if conquered and then the conversion would probably be false. Russia tried to convert their people to Atheism but it didn't work. Most Atheists would not become Muslims unless conquered. How many Shias convert to Sunni or vice versa even though both are Muslim.

Whether Hamas meant to conquer or convert you should know from their past actions that they intend to do it through use of force and terrorism.

Of course it matters, why do you think everyone groaned when GWB said 'crusade' on TV. To a Muslim a 'crusade' means massacring 50,000 women and children :!:

There is no history of forced conversion in the Muslim world, they were tolerant of religious minorities 800 years before Christians stopped burning Jews.

As a Atheist, one of the things I like about Muslims, Jews and Hindus, is they are NOT trying to convert you constantly.

Although conversion is not common there are a great many Sunni-Shia marriages across the Middle East in the countries that have a mixed population.

Also, the number of conversions to Islam has increased across the Western World since 9/11.

I am aware of the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I am also aware of the difference between rhetoric and reality. Hamas have been saying they are going to sweep Israel into the sea for 30 years and yet they recognised their right to exist this week :!:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1803177,00.html

[Duchifas]

AKAMad wrote: I am aware of the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I am also aware of the difference between rhetoric and reality. Hamas have been saying they are going to sweep Israel into the sea for 30 years and yet they recognised their right to exist this week :!:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1803177,00.html

Lies. There is no recognition of Israel whatsoever:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57029

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1409958&highlight=#1409958

[AKAMad]

Looks like I got a prediction right :!:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52997&highlight=

[DSwain]

AKAMad wrote: Looks like I got a prediction right :!:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52997&highlight=


Err - no

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5122822.stm

[hallstrom]

AKAmad says Quote: I am aware of the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I am also aware of the difference between rhetoric and reality. Hamas have been saying they are going to sweep Israel into the sea for 30 years and yet they recognised their right to exist this week

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

The Koran states, under 5:54, "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them.", under 8:39, "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme.", under 9:123, "Believers: Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you.", under 2:191, "Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out.", Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.". The Hadith (which is said to be the body of quotes attributed to Muhammad), Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, book 84, number 57, has been interpreted as saying "Kill whoever changes his religion"

Hamas is lead by Islamic extremists who will do or say anything in order to reach their goals. They will never truly acknowledge the right of any non Muslim to exist. Rational moderate Muslims may acknowledge the right of Israel to exist but groups like Hamas will not. People like those in Hamas believe that non believers are less than human, therefore lying to, cheating and killing non believers is not only right it is obligatory. Hamas may allow certain members to state that they will acknowledge Israel's right to exist but they will raise so many impossible conditions that Israel will not be able to comply, and they will never actually be forced to follow through with that acceptance.

[ShirzadianM]

jimmyz wrote: I liked this part -

Quote: statements by Hamas terrorist leader Yasser Ghalban, who was killed last week by Palestinians among ongoing internal fighting

".......... attention all martyrs!.Do to recent events we will be reducing the number of virgins issued to new arrivals here in Hell to two as we are running low"

Almost sounds like social security...

[to_frankie]

hallstrom wrote: AKAmad says Quote: I am aware of the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I am also aware of the difference between rhetoric and reality. Hamas have been saying they are going to sweep Israel into the sea for 30 years and yet they recognised their right to exist this week

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

The Koran states, under 5:54, "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them.", under 8:39, "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme.", under 9:123, "Believers: Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you.", under 2:191, "Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out.", Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.". The Hadith (which is said to be the body of quotes attributed to Muhammad), Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, book 84, number 57, has been interpreted as saying "Kill whoever changes his religion"

Hamas is lead by Islamic extremists who will do or say anything in order to reach their goals. They will never truly acknowledge the right of any non Muslim to exist. Rational moderate Muslims may acknowledge the right of Israel to exist but groups like Hamas will not. People like those in Hamas believe that non believers are less than human, therefore lying to, cheating and killing non believers is not only right it is obligatory. Hamas may allow certain members to state that they will acknowledge Israel's right to exist but they will raise so many impossible conditions that Israel will not be able to comply, and they will never actually be forced to follow through with that acceptance.

While I have little respect for these religious zealots from Hamas that make these ludicrous comments, lets not use quotes from the Quran as an exmaple of Islam's inherent evil as we can find quite similar posts in the bible and much worse quotes in the Talmud.

[AKAMad]

DSwain wrote: AKAMad wrote: Looks like I got a prediction right :!:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52997&highlight=


Err - no

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5122822.stm

Be patient

[hallstrom]

to_frankie wrote, Quote: While I have little respect for these religious zealots from Hamas that make these ludicrous comments, lets not use quotes from the Quran as an exmaple of Islam's inherent evil as we can find quite similar posts in the bible and much worse quotes in the Talmud.

Quotes from the Quran or Koran are of great importance. The fanatic Islamic fundamentalists leading groups like Hamas use these same quotes as their justification for what they are doing. Yes, there are also similar writings in the Bible and in other religious writings, however, the only religious fundamentalists currently using these writings in order to justify attempting to wipe out large numbers of people are the Islamic fundamentalists. It is also these types of writings that they use in order to recruit homicide bombers and others. Without these writings they would lose all justification for their existence. Yes, reasonable Muslims like reasonable Christians, Jews and other do not follow these types of writings, but the terrorists and their recruits do.

[Saracen]

hallstrom wrote: AKAmad says Quote: I am aware of the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I am also aware of the difference between rhetoric and reality. Hamas have been saying they are going to sweep Israel into the sea for 30 years and yet they recognised their right to exist this week

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

The Koran states, under 5:54, "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them.", under 8:39, "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme.", under 9:123, "Believers: Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you.", under 2:191, "Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out.", Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.". The Hadith (which is said to be the body of quotes attributed to Muhammad), Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, book 84, number 57, has been interpreted as saying "Kill whoever changes his religion"

The quote is taken out of context, hallstrom. The verse 5:54 reads that we as Muslims shouldn't take Christians or Jews as Awliyaa, or allies in times of war AGAINST MUSLIMS (meaning treasons), and that they are allies of each other (this is supposedly a prophecy of the American Judeo-Christian alliance). Under 2:191, "them" refers to those who fight you, as can be explained by the part "those who drove you out". Furthermore, the Hadith you mentioned was a statement by the Prophet (peace be upon him) during the spread of Islam, because it was feared that whosoever converted to another religion would also betray Muslims.

Quote: Hamas is lead by Islamic extremists who will do or say anything in order to reach their goals. They will never truly acknowledge the right of any non Muslim to exist. Rational moderate Muslims may acknowledge the right of Israel to exist but groups like Hamas will not. People like those in Hamas believe that non believers are less than human, therefore lying to, cheating and killing non believers is not only right it is obligatory. Hamas may allow certain members to state that they will acknowledge Israel's right to exist but they will raise so many impossible conditions that Israel will not be able to comply, and they will never actually be forced to follow through with that acceptance.

Actually, they would. Hamas met with NT, a Jewish group, to show that they are not anti-Semites. However, lying, cheating and killing is unIslamic, especially to non-believers. As for Israel's right to exist, there is the possibility of acknowledging a truce without recognition. Granted, I am no fan of Hamas, but they don't want to fight.

[superskippy]

Quote: Actually, they would. Hamas met with NT, a Jewish group, to show that they are not anti-Semites.

The organization Hamas and it's ideology have not changed as they have struck down every effort to change it. They remain what the were and are. Holding a meeting for the media to see changes nothing.

Quote: As for Israel's right to exist, there is the possibility of acknowledging a truce without recognition.

Which is ridiculous, which is what has been happening for 60 years with the Arabs and because of which 6-7 wars have been fought and tens of thousands have died, because without recognition their can be no negotiating table and conflict becomes inevetable. Just ask the Egyptians and the Jordanians.

A final resolution needs to be made, not a 10 year truce, a temporary armisitice, or anything like that. No reprieve until the end is concluded.

Quote: Granted, I am no fan of Hamas, but they don't want to fight.

Thats not true, it's not that they dont want a fight. They dont want a general engagement where they are the targets. Continued sporadic attacks and casualties are fine. But anything that brings them into our scopes is something they dont want, they cant hide as well anymore.

[hallstrom]

Saracen wrote, Quote: The verse 5:54 reads that we as Muslims shouldn't take Christians or Jews as Awliyaa, or allies in times of war AGAINST MUSLIMS (meaning treasons), and that they are allies of each other (this is supposedly a prophecy of the American Judeo-Christian alliance).

That is not my understanding of the verse nor is it the understanding of many other people I have spoken with. Everything written or repeated verbally is subject to different interpretations. This may be your interpretation but it does not seem to be the way Hamas or the leaders of Syria and Iran interpret the verse.

As far as Hamas not wanting to fight. I just don't know what to say in reply. They keep sending rockets into Israel, they keep fighting with the Fatah movement, they keep saying their is no room for Israel or Jews in Palestine. Of course they would prefer to get rid of the Jews without fighting, but in my view they want rid of them one way or the other and they will not stop until they have accomplished their goal or until they have been stopped cold.

As far as lying, cheating and killing goes, I assume that moderate and reasonable Muslims feel as you do but Hamas is led by fanatics not moderates. Fanatics will do, say or twist anything in order to reach their goals.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

So long as they do not push their moral values on people, they can practice their religion ... the moment they begin to push their moral values on people is the moment they need to be taught a lesson in pluralism.