Political Crossfire Forums

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5108158.stm

With the PM's speech about the feelings of the general public towards the UK's criminal justice system, I'd like to pose the question - do you think prison works? Specifically, is prison effective in fighting crime?

I'd say yes. Prison is not so effective in rehabilitating offenders but it's very effective in keeping criminals out of circulation. In the UK our mindset is still 'how awful, we lock up so many more people than our European neighbours'. In the US - which has had a decade of broadly declining crime figures - they got over this attitude a long time ago and committed to building prisons and lots of them.

I'd favour community punishments for first time offenders. But if you darken the doors of the criminal justice system a second time then it's custodial sentences. Third time? Life with a minimum tariff.

Oh, and the Government has to build prisons and lots of them. We don't want judges to be encouraged to hand out lenient sentences due to overcrowding - an idea floated by the Home Office.

angusrae · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 967 Location: Falkirk Scotland

I voted no with reluctance Prisons need to have the capability to rehabilitate ours(Britain's)seem to be too understaffed and underfunded to carry this part of what a prison sentence is about.

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

No.

Current reates of recidivism are unacceptable, ergo the prison system is not working, it needs to reform offenders.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Pebble wrote: No.

Current reates of recidivism are unacceptable, ergo the prison system is not working, it needs to reform offenders.

On one level I agree, prison is ineffective at reforming offenders as I outlined in my original post. I would be reluctant to use prison with first time offenders because as soon as you commit people to the penal system then there is a high potential of recidivism. As soon as someone commits a second and a third crime then it's clear that reform isn't on their personal agenda and then serious time should be handed down. The law abiding citizen has every right to be protected frrom such criminals.If that means doubling or tripling our prison population, so be it - show me where I vote on that manifesto.

The point of prison I feel is punishment, containment and deterrence.

thundertaker · Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

Put them to work to earn their keep.......

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 5677

Not in terms of re-offending, yes in terms of removing people from society.

A m8 of mine works in the prison service, I asked him if prison worked a while ago, he said that more than 50% of the inmates come in, go out, come in, go out <loop>.

What works is for people to believe that they have a bright future without crime. That they can provide for their families without crime. This is something that Britain has never cop'ed on to and probably never will.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Ssushi wrote: Not in terms of re-offending, yes in terms of removing people from society.

A m8 of mine works in the prison service, I asked him if prison worked a while ago, he said that more than 50% of the inmates come in, go out, come in, go out <loop>.

What works is for people to believe that they have a bright future without crime. That they can provide for their families without crime. This is something that Britain has never cop'ed on to and probably never will.

I would not disagree that prison is ineffective in reducing rates of recidivism as I outlined above. Prison however is very effective in containment.

I don't blame society for crime, I blame the criminals. There are an awful lot of working familes who somehow manage to make ends meet without recourse to crime. I think as a society we need to understand criminals a little less and condemn them a little more (to paraphrase John Major).

I would try to keep first time offenders out of prison - that's the time to turn them, to reform them. Second time and up - old lags and treat them as such.

AKAMad · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Birmingham

Ssushi wrote: Not in terms of re-offending, yes in terms of removing people from society.

A m8 of mine works in the prison service, I asked him if prison worked a while ago, he said that more than 50% of the inmates come in, go out, come in, go out <loop>.

What works is for people to believe that they have a bright future without crime. That they can provide for their families without crime. This is something that Britain has never cop'ed on to and probably never will.

A friend of mine was once facing a short stretch for a pub fight with a girlfriends ex. He said that the problem was that you are sent staight down. He had to put his possessions into storage and give up his home before he went to court. If he had been found guilty, paying for an empty flat might have bancrupted him, and his landlord would have had his stuff.
In the end he got a suspended, but anything over 2 weeks and he would have ended jobless as well as homeless.
There is no reason why people couldn't be given a day or two to sort out their affairs, while being handcuffed to someone of course.
People who work in the system say that any sentence less than 6 months is pointless. There is just not enough time for any education or rehabilatation.
In Europe people can serve sentences that allow them to keep their jobs and just be in prison at evenings and weekends.

intellectualidiot · Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 8

its a loaded question, prision works as far as keeping them off the street

personally as a left winger, captial punishment solve all our problems

truth is 99% people in prision are guilty, they can't be rehabilitated so they should be shot, or maybe placed on a giant hamster wheels and power a small town.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1743 Location: London

angusrae wrote: I voted no with reluctance Prisons need to have the capability to rehabilitate ours(Britain's)seem to be too understaffed and underfunded to carry this part of what a prison sentence is about.

Its a incarceration process. Rehabilitation is a myth becks it does'nt actually take place. Even when using low low risk cat D prisoners to do cheap labour for the benefit of the community. Local business would lobby against the prisoners working, because it makes them unable to compete. Just the public finding out you can watch TV in prison and there's an uproar.

If as a society we refuse to put the necessary funds to attempt to reform these people. Then we must not complain of the predictable outcome, that these people are highly likely to re-offend. There no perfect solution. it just a choice of excepting the lesser of 2 evils.