Political Crossfire Forums

John · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject:

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Quote: . But the truth is that nothing is blind to G-d. You are in effect saying that one of G-d's creations, pride and sin, has the power to hide G-d.

Huh? Being blind and not seeing God doen't mean that God isn't there.

....the point is God's love...that's what people are blind to and don't recieve or understand.

God proved that sin has no power over Him by dieing and raising Himself from the dead. He causes the lame to walk and the blind to see.

How could you even fathom to think that G-d could possibly sin, to think that is to think that G-d is possibly imperfect.
John, was there a possibility that Jesus would have failed the test in the dessert? if yes, what would have happened had he failed?

I dunno if it was possible or not...I just know that He didn't fail.

I didn't say that I thought God sinned...but what you are saying is just words until there is a test that proves it to be Truth. "How could you possibly think!!!" What's to stop someone from thinking it?

Maybe that's were Satan fell....he asked...."How do we know God is perfect? Because He says so?"

Like I said to Duchifas...just maybe this whole thing called human life is God proving a point once and for all. Sure...He could have just zapped Satan and even erased any memory of Satan...but sooner or later the question would arise again, and so on and so on.

The blood of Christ PROVES once and for all for all eternity that God IS perfect and that He IS love and that we CAN trust Him no matter what.

John · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject:

Mailech wrote: John wrote: Mailech wrote: If it is just a confinement, then why is it so painful? Why the burning fires of hell?

I dunno. It seems to be a way of describing what separation from God for all eternity will be like in a way we can kinda comprehend.

The absence of pleasure is not pain, pain is a direct action.

Who said that God is always pleasure...sometimes you feel closest to God through the pain.

Maybe it's just a way of describing nothingness yet being concious of the nothingness...Hell is also descried as being dark and cold...so I believe it's a description of the soul separated from God. Maybe the burning is in your guilt and regret...I dunno....and I don't plan on finding out.

Nathyn · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 7341 Location: The Great Satan

John wrote: Nathyn wrote: John wrote: Quote: The Bible makes it clear that both faith and works are necessary for salvation.

Not at all. The Bible is clear that someone who truly believes will act like someone who truly believes. It's a simple as that.
That's what I said. Did you read it? My point is, if you don't act that way, you have to start questioning your faith.

Also, when you say "what we believe," I already clarified that not all denominations agree with salvation-by-grace.

The thing you don't understand (because it hasn't happened to you)....is that when a person truly accepts what Messiah (Jesus) did and what that really means, something literally changes inside of them. The person becomes someone new...and believing isn't something that they have to work on...they just do. It has become part of who they are.

So when the Bible says that faith without works is dead...it's saying that if "works" are not evident in you...then that change inside of you that needs to happen in order to be saved hasn't really happened..and that you're just fooling yourself.

Of course there are "denominations" that have incorrect doctrine. that doesn't change what Christianity really is.
Tell that to the folks at exchristian.net. I have an atheist friend who used to be a priest.

John · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:29 am Post subject:

Nathyn wrote: John wrote: Nathyn wrote: John wrote: Quote: The Bible makes it clear that both faith and works are necessary for salvation.

Not at all. The Bible is clear that someone who truly believes will act like someone who truly believes. It's a simple as that.
That's what I said. Did you read it? My point is, if you don't act that way, you have to start questioning your faith.

Also, when you say "what we believe," I already clarified that not all denominations agree with salvation-by-grace.

The thing you don't understand (because it hasn't happened to you)....is that when a person truly accepts what Messiah (Jesus) did and what that really means, something literally changes inside of them. The person becomes someone new...and believing isn't something that they have to work on...they just do. It has become part of who they are.

So when the Bible says that faith without works is dead...it's saying that if "works" are not evident in you...then that change inside of you that needs to happen in order to be saved hasn't really happened..and that you're just fooling yourself.

Of course there are "denominations" that have incorrect doctrine. that doesn't change what Christianity really is.
Tell that to the folks at exchristian.net. I have an atheist friend who used to be a priest.

There is no such thing as an ex-Christian. They were never truly Christian to begin with.

1 John 2
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Nathyn · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 7341 Location: The Great Satan

John wrote: Nathyn wrote: John wrote: Nathyn wrote: John wrote: Quote: The Bible makes it clear that both faith and works are necessary for salvation.

Not at all. The Bible is clear that someone who truly believes will act like someone who truly believes. It's a simple as that.
That's what I said. Did you read it? My point is, if you don't act that way, you have to start questioning your faith.

Also, when you say "what we believe," I already clarified that not all denominations agree with salvation-by-grace.

The thing you don't understand (because it hasn't happened to you)....is that when a person truly accepts what Messiah (Jesus) did and what that really means, something literally changes inside of them. The person becomes someone new...and believing isn't something that they have to work on...they just do. It has become part of who they are.

So when the Bible says that faith without works is dead...it's saying that if "works" are not evident in you...then that change inside of you that needs to happen in order to be saved hasn't really happened..and that you're just fooling yourself.

Of course there are "denominations" that have incorrect doctrine. that doesn't change what Christianity really is.
Tell that to the folks at exchristian.net. I have an atheist friend who used to be a priest.

There is no such thing as an ex-Christian. They were never truly Christian to begin with.

1 John 2
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
I think you're sort of taking scripture on its own basis, without actually examining reality.

Are you going to tell me that a person who was a priest for 10 or 20 years, then suddenly became an Atheist was "never really a Christian"?

Upon that same argument, for all you know, you're not really a Christian. If you ever became an Atheist, others would say, regardless of what your beliefs are now, that you were never really a Christian.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Are you going to tell me that a person who was a priest for 10 or 20 years, then suddenly became an Atheist was "never really a Christian"?

Exactly.

Duchifas · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 9950

John wrote: Like I said to Duchifas...just maybe this whole thing called human life is God proving a point once and for all. Sure...He could have just zapped Satan and even erased any memory of Satan...but sooner or later the question would arise again, and so on and so on.

The blood of Christ PROVES once and for all for all eternity that God IS perfect and that He IS love and that we CAN trust Him no matter what.

G-d created humans in order to prove.....what.....and to whom? What point is G-d trying to prove? To whom? Why?

John · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:28 am Post subject:

That what He wants is right...not just because He says so...but because it really is.

Duchifas · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 9950

John wrote: That what He wants is right...not just because He says so...but because it really is.

That's a (not very good) attempt at answer what He wants to prove. Now explain who He needs to prove it to. And why.