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Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

Human Existence Is in Peril

Whitney R. Harris was a prosecutor for the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg following World War II. His 50-year legal career included government, corporate and private practice as well as teaching. Harris lives with his wife in St. Louis.

'This I Believe' . . .

If we attempt to comprehend this vast universe with its millions of fiery stars and frightening dark holes, and say for comfort that only God could have created it, and therefore, there is a God, we default in our reasoning, for we are unable to answer the further question, "who created the God who created the universe?"

We do know that we live on Earth, spun off from the sun and, therefore, on a planet with a beginning. Moreover, we know that, once a fiery ball, the Earth has cooled and gained life upon its surface -- static, nonthinking plants and mobile, thinking animals. We do not know whence came the first manifestation of that life -- the tiniest amoeba -- capable of discernible thought and movement. To ignite the spark of life requires the hand of God. Never mind the universe. Here on Earth, we find the quintessential role of God.

Hence, I believe first, that God exists.

Until this time at least, man has evolved far beyond any other animals on Earth in comprehension and intelligence. The carnivores exceed his strength on land; the amphibians surpass his power at sea. But man has the gift of reason, which enables him to dominate life on Earth -- and the chance to survive as long as the solar system remains hospitable to him. That chance, alas, is not eternal.

And, thus, I believe human life is finite.

Within these limits of survivability man holds his destiny in his own hands. He has yet to prove his worthiness. In the last century, he destroyed more of his own kind in war and in merciless murder than in any other time in history. He is fated to acquire the capability of obliterating himself and all other life upon this planet. And he seems unable to appreciate the consequences of that power. The life that God gave to him may be by him destroyed.

And so, I believe human existence is in peril.

The challenge to man is to establish and to maintain the foundations of peace and humanity upon the Earth for the centuries to come that God has allotted him to live upon this planet. He must learn to end war and protect life, to seek justice and find mercy, to help others and embrace compassion. Each man must respect every other man and honor the God who made this incredible mystery of human life a reality.

I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

by Whitney R. Harris

NPR ~ All Things Considered, June 12, 2006

~@~

Let's put his words into context, shall we : Gunmen Go On Rampage

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

Would an unjust God give those same babies you speak of an eternity of heaven in the afterlife once they die?

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

Would an unjust God give those same babies you speak of an eternity of heaven in the afterlife once they die?

I'm sure god appreciates you putting words into its' mouth.

eynon · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: 'This I Believe' ...

JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

(shrug)I met people who lived in the the 3rd world who were way happier then their American peers.

that aside, we live in a world of free-will, G-d doesn't cause suffering, we do.....

Quote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

:tu: we bring disaster upon ourselves, if an end does come, it will be brought on by our sins.

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

JoeTzu wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

Would an unjust God give those same babies you speak of an eternity of heaven in the afterlife once they die?

I'm sure god appreciates you putting words into its' mouth.

And what of my explanation is false or consists of "words put into God's mouth"?

Æ · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 5496 Location: Taxatraz

JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.
Free will. It's what God gave us. The rest is up to us.

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

Eynon81 wrote: JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

(shrug)I met people who lived in the the 3rd world who were way happier then their American peers.

that aside, we live in a world of free-will, G-d doesn't cause suffering, we do.....

Quote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

:tu: we bring disaster upon ourselves, if an end does come, it will be brought on by our sins.

By christian teachings jesus died for our sins. jesus only asks that we love god and our Neighbors.

How do two year old children have a choice.

And please someone present a passage that states that children who die before they are capable of "choice" go straight to heaven.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.

Wait..wait...I'm receiving a message from god, he says take writings said to be inspired by me with a grain of salt. Also, you humans are not to be trusted with the word of I, due to the fact that it would be very tempting to reword or completely edit it to serve your purposes.

This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.

Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

First off, I didn't write the piece.
Quote: Whitney R. Harris was a prosecutor for the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg following World War II. His 50-year legal career included government, corporate and private practice as well as teaching.
Harris lives with his wife in St. Louis.

Secondly, what does being born in a wealth country, with loving parents have to do with
"I believe God is merciful and just," ?

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.
Hmmm, maybe that's why I put the smilies after it, because I knew you woulnd't take to that very kindly...

Quote: This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.
If you want to start a thread bashing mormonism, go for it, but that has no place in this thread at all.

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: JoeTzu wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe there is God,
I believe God is merciful and just,
But if man desires to destroy himself
I believe God will not save him.

Fair and Just? That is true if you were born in a wealth country, with loving parents.
As far as those odds go, it is random or worse chosen by your god. Babies born in impoverished countries who die before their capable of rational thought, or SIDS or a crack head father who drops them out a window, would not call god just or merciful.
If you want to say that death is more merciful than growing up in the impoverished countries etc... than just look to the ones who survive a couple of more years.

First off, I didn't write the piece.
Quote: Whitney R. Harris was a prosecutor for the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg following World War II. His 50-year legal career included government, corporate and private practice as well as teaching.
Harris lives with his wife in St. Louis.

Secondly, what does being born in a wealth country, with loving parents have to do with
"I believe God is merciful and just," ?

Obviously you did not write it, but your spreading the message.

I think 12 year old girls suffering for aids in africa, due to the myth that sleeping with a virgin gets rid of it, would beg to differ from the phrase that their creator was either merciful or just.

My point being that it is easy to feel special and loved by god when life is good. I mean good all around; healthy, safe, free, etc...

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

CrossEyedMary wrote: JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.
Hmmm, maybe that's why I put the smilies after it, because I knew you woulnd't take to that very kindly...

Quote: This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.
If you want to start a thread bashing mormonism, go for it, but that has no place in this thread at all.

If you consider telling the truth as bashing you have much bigger problems than faith.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.
Hmmm, maybe that's why I put the smilies after it, because I knew you woulnd't take to that very kindly...

Quote: This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.
If you want to start a thread bashing mormonism, go for it, but that has no place in this thread at all.

If you consider telling the truth as bashing you have much bigger problems than faith.
A) If you think your uninformed opinions are the truth, you have big problems
B) It doesn't matter the words I use - this thread is not the place for this discussion. As I said, you can start your own thread if you want, but I refuse to discuss this any further in this one.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

JoeTzu wrote: I think 12 year old girls suffering for aids in africa, due to the myth that sleeping with a virgin gets rid of it, would beg to differ from the phrase that their creator was either merciful or just.

The creator isn't sleeping with the 12 yr old girls, neither is he telling the men to do so. All of that is due to the evil actions of men, not the creator.

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

perdidochas wrote: JoeTzu wrote: I think 12 year old girls suffering for aids in africa, due to the myth that sleeping with a virgin gets rid of it, would beg to differ from the phrase that their creator was either merciful or just.

The creator isn't sleeping with the 12 yr old girls, neither is he telling the men to do so. All of that is due to the evil actions of men, not the creator.

Yet we hold parents responsible for childrens actions.

Richard Owl Mirror · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9002

JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.
Hmmm, maybe that's why I put the smilies after it, because I knew you woulnd't take to that very kindly...

Quote: This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.
If you want to start a thread bashing mormonism, go for it, but that has no place in this thread at all.

If you consider telling the truth as bashing you have much bigger problems than faith.

Please, do tell me the TRUTH
I'd so much like to hear your rendition of what constitutes TRUTH.
Please, provide the basis which you claim to have found TRUTH and it's authenticity

Darth Tiberius · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 2001 Location: Oxford

I do agree with him on the first paragraph a bit. We do not know how a "god" could of created the universe when god's explaination of who he is and his inability to provide decent answers without parables and beating around the bush.

But the beginning of the world does NOT require the hand of god when science can explain most things and if god does exist then evolution cannot occur. So Harris' opinion is highly contradictionary. He is explaining what cannot be explained by science from something which is even more unprobable. That being a deity creating the heavens and the earth.

His analysis on god and human life should be seen as wrong to both thiests and athiests. Obvioulsy for athiests since the finite existance of humans doesn't support scientifically, philisophically or from any other method that god exists. And for a thiest what he is claiming that the solar system may become inhospitable and the acknowledgement of evolution is off from what it says in the Bible.

In one hand he is saying that man's "destruction" of earth is caused by man and that he control our destiny (which to Chrisitans who believe in predestination and orthodox theology would disagree) and then says that "The life that God gave to him may be by him destroyed". It is just terribly inconsistent.

Overall, his rant is just utter dribble.

JoeTzu · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 155 Location: In your head man.

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: JoeTzu wrote: CrossEyedMary wrote: Doctrine and Covenants 20:71 8:)

:lol:
I meant the old or new testament, not the gospel according to one man.
Hmmm, maybe that's why I put the smilies after it, because I knew you woulnd't take to that very kindly...

Quote: This has been a teaching from the Church of JoeTzu and Present Day Saints.
If you want to start a thread bashing mormonism, go for it, but that has no place in this thread at all.

If you consider telling the truth as bashing you have much bigger problems than faith.

Please, do tell me the TRUTH
I'd so much like to hear your rendition of what constitutes TRUTH.
Please, provide the basis which you claim to have found TRUTH and it's authenticity

You said I was bashing the mormons.
One~a parody on a churches 'catch phrase' is hardly bashing
Two~ if you are referring to me knowing that the book of mormon was written by one man. Than you should do your own damn research.