Political Crossfire Forums

[TomE100]

I have lived in America all my life. I'm probably going to be considered a "trader" or what not because of this though. I often find that what we are doing in other countries is morally wrong. For example, telling Iran, etc that they can not have nuclear capabilities. Since we are all about freedom, what gives us the right to tell them what to do? Isn't that their freedom? Or am I missing something? If I were asked what the best country in the world is right now, I would say America. However, I have never been anywhere else. That question is also entirely a matter of opinion / preference. Some people may like to work a lot with less vacation; some people need it.

Also, who says communism is bad? Saying communism is evil is no different than racism. Also, btw, if you read some of the CIA world book on Iraq, you will learn that Iraq was originally considered a Democracy whether it operated like one or not. Democracy isn't going to save the world. Hard working, ethical people are the only thing that can prevent total destruction.

Next, how do you measure freedom? Who says we have the most freedom? Maybe congress does, seeing as how they have been giving themselves pay raises every year. Btw, we have a powerful military because the United States is now dependent on a militaristic economy. Since the US spends $400 some billion of the $900 billion world military budget, we should be some what strong. But it doesn't mean we're right.

Now, I've been sort of bashing America, but I do like living here. I am currently 18 and have been able to work up to $50,000 p/year salary. There is no doubt, America is the land of opportunity. However, that opportunity is slowly fading away as the world population grows. Immigrants aren't to be blamed for this problem either. It's going to happen one way or another.

I do often find myself proud to live here, but then again the TV, radio, etc is always pumping American slogans into us.

Make sure you check who wrote your history book.

Btw, sorry for all the typos. Fixed some along the way, sure there is plenty more.

[adleberg]

I wonder if any americans know just how much they depend on China?

America runs a huge trade deficit every year, its in the trillions but Im sure you astute americans know that. Where do you think the money comes from to finance your deficits? You guessed it, China. If China wanted to it could bring down the American economy in a heartbeat.

[mojo]

adleberg wrote: I wonder if any americans know just how much they depend on China?

America runs a huge trade deficit every year, its in the trillions but Im sure you astute americans know that. Where do you think the money comes from to finance your deficits? You guessed it, China. If China wanted to it could bring down the American economy in a heartbeat.

The majority of our debt is held by Japan. But I think China carries american savings bonds to the tune of 500 billion dollars. So yes China has a vast economic interst in the United States. But economics works both ways. In the event of some kind of stand off China would be just as economically destroyed as us.

[adleberg]

True, much of the american debt lies in Japan. However there is billions of dollars of american debt growing in China and in the event of a conflict China is much more inependantly sustainable without the US, considering China is has pushed the 10% growth rate whilst the US is sitting just above recession.

[NautaPuella]

MasturDebater wrote: We have the most freedoms, the most power, the most military, the biggest land mass. We also have the highest average IQs and our cars are better for the environment.

This is why America should rule the world. Because we are the best. Maybe if these communist countries stop killing our soldiers and blowing themselves up we can get some stuff done but we have to finish the job in Iraq or freedom won't prevail.

many people might not like us taking them over but it is best for them in the long run jebronees.

I like England, it's pretty, the people are nice as long as you don't criticise football, cricket, or rugby, and I haven't been shot at.

I like the US, it's a great country I am very proud and feel privilidged to call myself an American and to work for this great country. Is it the best? No.

There are some countries with more freedoms in some areas than we have. For example, Denmark is ranked #1 in terms of freedom of press. While the US is 44th.
Annual Worldwide Press Freedom Index 1005

Also, we do not have the most military, we just show it off a lot. China for example, (wow, I'm using China as an example, this is sad) has over 25 million members in it's military. Though service is compulsory there. We have about 4 million in our armed services.
CIA World Factbook - China - Military
CIA World Factbook - USA - Military

Don't even get me started on our cars. It's sad.

As for landmass. Canada and Russia has us beat there. Oh, and we're not getting blown up by communists, they're called terrorists these days. We stopped really fighting the communists with the end of the Cold War, in oh let's say 1989. They thought that communism was best for the countries in the long run, and it just didn't last.

We don't have all the answers, we sure as hell aren't the best. Let's work on improving this great country we already have, instead of acting like arrogant children and rubbing the world's nose in our "greatness" and ignoring the issues we face within our country and the possibilities we have for improvement.

Nauta

[Boneman]

Im going to contribute some pearls of wisdom here:
BRITAIN IS TEH ROXOR!!!!11!!1

[NautaPuella]

Yeah but the taxes are not fun.

[Magorion]

politicalmojo wrote: The amount of benefits within scandanavias socialist economy dont outweigh the price.

Neither Norway, Denmark or Sweden have socialist economies.

Quote: Scandanavia has one of the slowest rates of growth within the developing world.

The Scandinavian countries aren't part of the developing world, and neither do we have the lowest growth rates:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2003rank.html

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0107851.html

Quote: Also scandanavias taxes are far and way the highest in europe.

Wrong again. In 2003, Belgium, France, Denmark, Sweden and Finland had a higher percentage of GDP coming from tax money than Norway (2003 numbers):

http://pf.econ.kobe-u.ac.jp/kaken/rsoecd2004.html

2004 article:

http://www.oecd.org/document/5/0,2340,en_2649_201185_35472591_1_1_1_1,00.html

Quote: We can't even begin to talk about freedom till you confront the idea that you are not free until you own your check book.

Today, cheques are obsolete. However, as little as 6-7 years ago my father would always use either cheques or cash to pay for groceries. Mostly, he would have cash handy. In which country was it illegal to have your own cheque books???

[_Kev_]

politicalmojo wrote:

Today, cheques are obsolete. However, as little as 6-7 years ago my father would always use either cheques or cash to pay for groceries. Mostly, he would have cash handy. In which country was it illegal to have your own cheque books???

Uh, his point was that the governemnt "owned" your checkbooks because of high taxes. Though I believe you've already responded to that.

Anyway, as fun as this thread is, it's kind of silly. To me, America is the best. To some other guy, not so much. The poster's facts are obviously a bit lacking and I don't see how anyone could objectively qualify any country as the best all-around country. It's simply foolish to try.

[Towie]

Well, for one, those of you who make the useless point that America is not equivalent to the United States fail to recognize the fact that in general custom, as well as general language, "American" and "America" have become synonymous with "of the United States" and "the United States." Why make the point at all when it is a mere technical issue? Get to the real issues, skip the banter.

I must agree with the "unamerican bastards" (as they are so lovingly called by American Fundamentalists) on this one. The United States is not ready to rise as the assertive culture of the world. It is not only America's inability though. The world as a whole is not prepared for unification. Feuds and nationalism must end for such a thign to occur. Hegemony may seem like oppression or occupation to many, but it is different on a world scale. American hegemony would be much like electing the United States to be the world's capital. Within the US, Washington D.C. contains the powerful men and women. They need not be native to this area, nor would member's of the hegemony need to be native to America.

The proof of this is simple. Look at a small scale representation. Let's say, Canada. Each province has honor and pride, let's even go so far as to say nationalism on a provintial level. Each province (as a whole) forgoes this pride and submits to the capital (Ottawa) in Ontario. The same may even apply to cities within the countries borders if you prefer that analogy.

So you see, that world government must be headed by a certain country; yes, hegemony is necessary. Necessary, at least until everyone forgets the countries of the past and just thinks of them as provinces within a world state.


--Towie

[_Kev_]

Towie wrote: Well, for one, those of you who make the useless point that America is not equivalent to the United States fail to recognize the fact that in general custom, as well as general language, "American" and "America" have become synonymous with "of the United States" and "the United States." Why make the point at all when it is a mere technical issue? Get to the real issues, skip the banter.

I must agree with the "unamerican bastards" (as they are so lovingly called by American Fundamentalists) on this one. The United States is not ready to rise as the assertive culture of the world. It is not only America's inability though. The world as a whole is not prepared for unification. Feuds and nationalism must end for such a thign to occur. Hegemony may seem like oppression or occupation to many, but it is different on a world scale. American hegemony would be much like electing the United States to be the world's capital. Within the US, Washington D.C. contains the powerful men and women. They need not be native to this area, nor would member's of the hegemony need to be native to America.

The proof of this is simple. Look at a small scale representation. Let's say, Canada. Each province has honor and pride, let's even go so far as to say nationalism on a provintial level. Each province (as a whole) all forgoes this pride and submits to the capital (Ottawa) in Ontario. The same may even apply to cities within the countries borders if you prefer that analogy.

So you see, that world government must be headed by a certain country; yes, hegemony is necessary. Necessary, at least until everyone forgets the countries of the past and just thinks of them as provinces within a world state.


--Towie

Doubt we'll see it in our lifetime.

[Towie]

KRiche2 wrote: Doubt we'll see it in our lifetime.

I doubt it as well. I think the destruction of the world is more likely. Human nature has simply not evolved enough to handle ::shudder:: peaceful coexistence. We need controversy to exist in our current form. Until of course, violence dies out of our systems.


--Towie

[StrikeEmd15]

MasturDebater wrote: We have the most freedoms, the most power, the most military, the biggest land mass. We also have the highest average IQs and our cars are better for the environment.

This is why America should rule the world. Because we are the best. Maybe if these communist countries stop killing our soldiers and blowing themselves up we can get some stuff done but we have to finish the job in Iraq or freedom won't prevail.

many people might not like us taking them over but it is best for them in the long run jebronees.

Best country? Yeah right. the US government has toned done freedoms, and even openly attacks the media for using their freedom of speech (aka revealing secret programs that possibly invade privacy or whatever). Most power? What good is power if the world over hates you? Sorry, but our military is about on par with China's. Russia has the largest land mass, Isrealis have the highest IQ, and the US is one of the most polluted countries in the world. If America tooks over the world, we wouldn't be able to maintain power unless we acted like the Empire in Star Wars, except twice as dark (meaning destroy a city for one man's resistance). Those Resistance in Iraq and al-Qaida aren't communist. And the US government couldn't give a rat's ass about freedom. In the Cold War, the US would put dictators in power in several countries, and those dictators would be overthrown and we call the countries who overturned our puppets communist, or dictatorships. This is especially true in South America in the '80s. And of course people wouldn't like us taking over their countries! If someone took over your country because they're more powerful, would you believe it'd be in your best interest?!

[Political Blonde]

I applaud the obvious Patriotism you have in the US because I too love the US and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I don't think we can call the US is the best place to live in. It just happens that the US is the best place for us. All countries have good and bad aspects and there will never be a country that is a utopia. I've been to other countries and I still love the US, but I also realize what works for some people doesn't work for everyone.

My thoughts in a nutshell: This debate will go on until Utopia is achieved.

[freshy]

lol, most freedom:

Patriot Act, most non-violent inmates in the world, highest prison population in the world, our censorship grows every year, our Constitution is being ignored, Europe doesn't have graduated citizenship as we do (16, u drive, 18 u vote, 21 u drink).

our cars? in Europe they use public transportation... have u ever been to Europe or even watched a movie where they go to Europe.

biggest military... that generally doesn't end well. the world will eventually turn on us and our attempt to control it.

The idiot we elected has singlehandedly taken our debt up billions of dollars. we are worse than bankrupt...

This is why when u go anywhere in the world, u have to say ur from Canada... because Amerika as a country is messed up. Revolution is patriotic, not lies and propaganda...

[james_bond755]

I am glad that there are very many intelligent people in this thread, speaking the truth and not acting like many others, saying America could crush everyone, everyone else is stupid, and so forth.
I applaud how everyone is keeping an open mind and trying to learn from other countries, who are better in some areas, and that way everyone will be happier.

[zelda]

MasturDebater wrote: We have the most freedoms, the most power, the most military, the biggest land mass. We also have the highest average IQs and our cars are better for the environment.

This is why America should rule the world. Because we are the best. Maybe if these communist countries stop killing our soldiers and blowing themselves up we can get some stuff done but we have to finish the job in Iraq or freedom won't prevail.

many people might not like us taking them over but it is best for them in the long run jebronees.
:lol: is this what they teach you in school? you definitely have the biggest land mass if you're reffering to america as a whole, as a whole continent that is. if you're just speaking about the usa, then no you dont have the biggest land mass. have you heard of russia? do you know where it is on the map? anyway, it's bigger than the states.
most freedoms? in the netherlands (that's another country) they have gay marriage and they smoke pot in the cafes. do you in the states do this?
highest average iq? :lol: long live immigration and brain drain! apparently, they efficeiently counterbalance some natives' iqs..
most power? least brains?
most military...sure, ignore china for instance. they're shorter than you guys anyway so they couldn't actually count.
and not only all this bunch of qualities, but you're also the best in the world at american football!
considering all these, yes, you should definitely rule the world! don't let some stupid countries who don't know what's best for them, stay in your way. praised be the usa!

[The Impeacher]

meh, best is relative.

If best was measured with wealth and power, then I would guess so. While those may be the things a Nation values, they are not my individual values.

Ironically, those National values have allowed many of my individual values to flourish, so....

[Apoapsis]

Johannes wrote: ...freedom is the state most saught by man, and therefore, is inevitable...

This is an interesting thought and I agree, but unfortunately it seems that most people think their own freedom requires power and control over others, therefore, there will also always be conflict.

Unless humans evolve more rational and less self centered brains, I think societies will continue on a basic cycle of revolution -> freedom -> prosperity -> power grabbing -> oppression -> famine -> revolution....

Just a thought.

[sunwook]

From a S Korean viewpoint.

I have to admit, there are many things about the U.S. that I admire. For one, the Constitution, which has worked for all of the U.S.'s history. Second, I admire how the U.S. does have a very strong support for equality, oppurtunity, freedom, etc. Also, the U.S. has high living standards. Relatively, I would have to say the U.S. has a clean environment, and its infrastructure is very well built and organized. Its not too densely populated, and there's plenty of land.

I also notice how people in the U.S. are very friendly toward others, even strangers. In the bustling and busy streets of Seoul, you won't see many people looking out for each other. Honestly, I would rather be mugged in the U.S. than in Korea. (If I had to be mugged of course) I admire the U.S.'s education system, one of the best in the world. I know that some people say that it s*cks, etc, but comparatively, its pretty great. I'm in high school right now, and I can see how lucky I am to be studying in the U.S., not in Japan, Korea, etc. Not to mention how the U.S. has some of the best universities in the world.

But there are things I do not like in America. (I'm going to use America instead of US, b/c I want to, thx) For one, their culture is very... detrimental to the individual. Families for instance. I know I'm making generalizations here, but it seems to me that there's less support from parents for their children after they reach the age of 18. I'm not saying that its bad to grow up and live individually. But in America, (IMO) the children and parents don't stay in touch, visit as often, etc unlike other countries. Maybe once or twice for Thanksgiving and summer, but thats about it.

Americans also have too much sex. If AIDS has originated in America, I'm sure our population would be cut in half. Teenagers are getting pregnant, a lot of all-American kids I know have half a brain. Why can't more American teenagers be more serious about life? Its great to have some fun, but... they do it excessively.

Also, America seem to have more divorce. But I think thats due to the fact that there's female equality, and human nature makes us want to divorce if we can support ourselves.

America is also too fat. When I go to American restaurants, I order a "small". I get three times what I would get if I ordered a "small" dish in Korea. America really does have a lot of food, and they tend to want to eat it all... I think its great to be well fed, but you don't need to be fat to be well fed.

Also, about American politics... right now, American politics seem to be at an all time low. Looking at the recent Kerry-Bush elections.. what a nightmare. The two guys were arguing about which was more manly than the other. America's history had great leaders, but today, I'm not too sure.

America also spends too much on military. I think that one reason N Korea is building up a nuclear program, along with other countries like Iraq is because they feel threatened by America. They know that what the US wants is to impose their way of life and their beliefs on everyone else. Sometimes, the US needs to mind its own business.

Crazy people: America has a lot of them. "We didn't really land on the moon" "9/11 was staged by the government" "The Holocaust never happened" "Aliens have taken over the government"...

Some of them are a little too far fetched IMO, and I don't see crazy ideas like that in Korea...


Overall, I'm happy to be living in America. But I wouldn't say its the best country, and deserves to rule the world.