Political Crossfire Forums

[David2004]

Soon after Mr. Mahmoud Abbas took office as the President of the Palestinian Authority. Hamas agreed to a cease in suicide bombings. Meanwhile the Israeli government continues their military campaign against the Palestinian society. Last year Hamas won control of the Palestinian Authority to the dismay of the United States and Israel. It was an open and fair election according to international election observers including the former President Jimmy Carter.

Today the Palestinian people are living in conditions that are continuing to get worst. By the condition imposed onto them by the Israeli and United States government actions and policies. The Israeli and the United States government have labeled Hamas as a terrorist organization making Hamas an illegitimate as far as they are concerned. The majority of the Palestinian people say “Israel is a terrorist nation” and they have the facts and reality on the ground to prove it. The Israelis call them “targeted assassinates” while the people of the world call them “acts of terror” with the exception of the United States government and mass mainstream media.

Since the 1968 Palestinian-Israel War the Israelis have had a chokehold over the Palestinian society. The Israelis control the airspace over the Palestinian people bombing them at will. The Israelis control the boarders surrounding the Palestinian people letting in or out, whoever or whatever they wish when ever they want. This is making the Palestinian people prisoner within less than 22% of their homeland. The Jewish State of Israel was imposed onto the Palestinian people by the international community of nation in 1947 in the United Nations Resolution 181 mandating that two nations created out of one land. There were terms and conditions in this mandate that were never lived up to by the Israelis that provoked the Palestinian people into fighting for their survival.

The Israelis claiming to be the victims when in reality they are the real perpetrator in this life long conflict. The facts and reality on the ground are the proof. The little land that is left of the Palestinian Territory is a war torn by the Israelis. The original mandate (U.N. Resolution181) called for a 48% of the land a Jewish State and a 52% of the land a Palestinian State with the Jewish State in three unconnected sections and the Palestinian one continuous state. With the Old City of Jerusalem being an International City controlled by neither side.

The real story on who is attacking who has not been heard by the American people. The majority of the free people in the world have heard the true while the American mainstream mass media have kept the American people in the dark to the true story. From the 120 Un-Recognized Palestinian Villages in what is commonly referred to as Israel proper to the daily Israeli attacks on the Palestinian society. The most recent Israel government (surgical) attacks on a Hamas leader and a Palestinian Family of seven having a picnic on the beach in Gaza was the straw that broke the camels back for Hamas.

The question who is and who is not a terrorist will depend upon who you ask. The reality of facts tells you there are terrorists on both sides. Where there are people willing to kill and maim other people for their gains. The Jewish people went from controlling almost none of the land to controlling more than 100% of the Palestinian land. The human rights and dignity of the Palestinian people have been trample by the Jewish Zionists in the name of God and paid for by Americans.
http://www.globalcrier.blogspot.com/

[Lord Hargreaves]

Ceasefire eh? *cough*

Anyone who believes Hamas kept its "ceasefire" needs locking up in a secure mental facility

[Zoot]

Maybe they should try a new "don't shell civilians" ceasefire.

[Nico]

I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

[Pebble]

Nico wrote: I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

I hadn't really considered that issue before...but now things are getting up to civil war pace I suppose Abba becomes quite a juicy target... :?

[theshield]

Israel saved his life last month

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2168494,00.html

[Duchifas]

Nico wrote: I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

What recognition of Israel?

Here is the text on what Abbas suggested. Please point out to me where Israel is recognized?

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/14667989.htm

Then do some further reading here:

http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57029

;)

[Kane]

Duchifas wrote: Nico wrote: I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

What recognition of Israel?

Here is the text on what Abbas suggested. Please point out to me where Israel is recognized?

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/14667989.htm

Then do some further reading here:

http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57029

;)

That thing's a mess... :?

EDIT: Apparently...this is how they came to call it a "recognition of the State of Israel"....

----------------------------------------------

"The Palestinian parliament convened to consider a motion by Hamas to declare illegal the July 26 referendum over the political document, which implicitly recognizes Israel by envisaging a Palestinian state alongside it."

- Source

----------------------------------------------

It's recognition of a Palestinian State is seen as an "implicit" recognition of an Israeli one....? I am truly confused... :?

[mr_happy]

When it calls fro pre-1967 borders, it implies that the 1948 borders will be ISraeli. The plan is far from fair, serious, or implementable. However, it is a step forward and i will apllaud it if it comes. Also, the plan calls for an end to attacks within Israel proper, so that can only be a good thing.

[Duchifas]

Kane wrote: It's recognition of a Palestinian State is seen as an "implicit" recognition of an Israeli one....? I am truly confused...

Confused about what? That Abbas is as terrorist as Hamas, or that Hamas is as terrorist as Abbas? :)

mr happy wrote: When it calls fro pre-1967 borders, it implies that the 1948 borders will be ISraeli. The plan is far from fair, serious, or implementable. However, it is a step forward and i will apllaud it if it comes. Also, the plan calls for an end to attacks within Israel proper, so that can only be a good thing.

I don't think so, mr happy. They demand 1967 borders in paragraph 1, and then in paragraph 10, they continue blabbing about their resistance (read: terrorism). What exactly will they be resisting?



In any case, I think it is an exercise in futility to scrutinize the document and see where they may have implied that they would recognize Israel. Out of the 18 points they made, not one explicitly touches on the subject. If there was any hint of an idea in the minds to recognize Israel, they could have done it in three simple words: We recognize Israel.

They most assuredly have NOT done that, nor do they plan to, nor does Abbas have any intentions toward peace. Let's not be deluded here. This man was Arafat's right hand for decades, and his PhD dissertation was a work denying the Holocaust. He has been in power for years and has not lifted a finger not only against Hamas, but even to stop the incitement against Israel through official PA channels. This man always has been and always will remain a terrorist, and an enemy of peace. The only difference between him and Hamas is that he 1) dresses more westernly, 2) some idiot in the White House gives him ten times more the benefit of the doubt than he deserves.


On a side note, it's ironic that the text of the Palestinian referendum contains three instances of the word "peace." In each instance, that word refers to internal Palestinian process (i.e., let's not fight amongst ourselves). Not even once is the word "peace" used in connection with Israel.

However, the document contains no less than FIFTEEN instances of the word "resistance" which in the minds of scum like Barghouti means none other than terrorism.


Abbas and peace? I don't think so.

[Nico]

Duchifas wrote: Nico wrote: I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

What recognition of Israel?

Here is the text on what Abbas suggested. Please point out to me where Israel is recognized?

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/14667989.htm

Then do some further reading here:

http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57029

;)

Fair enough D. I was going of the basic press releases among the usual networks, so hadn't examined the detail ;)


edit: even at a glance it says on land occupied since 1967, which sounds fair to me.


also, the copy you posted is curiously signed by Hamas, and not Abbas [that I can see]. I know hamas oppose the referendum so I'm a little confused by the document details :?

[Duchifas]

Nico wrote: Duchifas wrote: Nico wrote: I think Abbas is doing an incredible job for a guy who's trying to run a dictionary definition of chaos. He's on a hiding to nothing with the factions but seems to be holding enough popular respect to be able to take stands. I hope his referendum proposal on popular statehood with recognition of Israel succeeds. He's tapping the same vein that tipped the balance toward hamas and using it to de-fang them. I just hope he stays alive long enough to see it through.

What recognition of Israel?

Here is the text on what Abbas suggested. Please point out to me where Israel is recognized?

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/14667989.htm

Then do some further reading here:

http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57029

;)

Fair enough D. I was going of the basic press releases among the usual networks, so hadn't examined the detail ;)


edit: even at a glance it says on land occupied since 1967, which sounds fair to me.


also, the copy you posted is curiously signed by Hamas, and not Abbas [that I can see]. I know hamas oppose the referendum so I'm a little confused by the document details :?

It was authored by Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons from all Palestinian "resistance" organizations.

[Nico]

Duchifas wrote:
It was authored by Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons from all Palestinian "resistance" organizations.

Something about it doesn't fit the outline of the Abbas referendum. The hamas signatures and lack of Abbas signature force me to take a raincheck till the referendum document appears in a mainstream publication as that being proposed. I have to reserve my own opinion till then.

[Duchifas]

Nico wrote: Duchifas wrote:
It was authored by Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons from all Palestinian "resistance" organizations.

Something about it doesn't fit the outline of the Abbas referendum. The hamas signatures and lack of Abbas signature force me to take a raincheck till the referendum document appears in a mainstream publication as that being proposed. I have to reserve my own opinion till then.

Dude, it was not authored by Abbas. It was authored by the terrorists in Prison. From the Fatah side, it was authored by Barghouti. Abbas merely picked up on the idea as a way to shove it to Hamas.

How's Reuters for you (not that I view it as credible):

Quote: Hamas officials accuse Abbas of using the referendum, penned by Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, to try to engineer the downfall of their government, which has struggled with a Western aid embargo and growing disorder.

The manifesto calls for a Palestinian state, alongside Israel,[D: uh, no it doesn't] on all of the Gaza Strip and the occupied West Bank. Opinion polls show most Palestinians back the proposal. Israel calls it a non-starter.

Palestinians will be asked to vote "yes" or "no" on the question: "Do you agree with the document of national agreement -- the prisoner's document?," the aide said.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-10T135330Z_01_L1082010_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-MIDEAST-COL.XML