Political Crossfire Forums

[Muslima]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam.

What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?

Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim.

it is good enough for the people who want to be muslims. it is amazing but convertion depends on two things:

1. either muslims are not good at presenting islam, which is what is happening now

or

2. non-muslims don't want to convert because many don't believe in any religion or don't know much about the quran.

same thing for africa, it depends on the person, let's use richard as an example (excuse me richard). he knows many things about islam, but still he is not a muslim because he might no want to be one. it is the same in africa with the two choices above.

[Muslima]

uo to now i always use the pdf of the quran you posted, richard!

i didn't object that it was translated. no body here did.

when say that about the arabic thing we mean that non arabian muslims should try to learn how to read the quran in arabic if they can, but also they should have the translation in their language next to them, that is all.

god made the quran in arabic because his prophet was arabian. how do you want someone to tell you something with proof if it is written in a language you don't understand or him.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Muslima wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam.

What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?

Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim.

it is good enough for the people who want to be muslims. it is amazing but convertion depends on two things:

1. either muslims are not good at presenting islam, which is what is happening now

or

2. non-muslims don't want to convert because many don't believe in any religion or don't know much about the quran.

same thing for africa, it depends on the person, let's use richard as an example (excuse me richard). he knows many things about islam, but still he is not a muslim because he might no want to be one. it is the same in africa with the two choices above.

Just jumping in since I was mentioned :wink:
Quote: not a muslim because he might not want to be one
The absolute recognition of Mohammad to be who he is purported to be is what separates me from the Muslim belief.

just an FYI 8:)

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Muslima wrote: uo to now i always use the pdf of the quran you posted, richard!

i didn't object that it was translated. no body here did.

when say that about the arabic thing we mean that non arabian muslims should try to learn how to read the quran in arabic if they can, but also they should have the translation in their language next to them, that is all.

god made the quran in arabic because his prophet was arabian. how do you want someone to tell you something with proof if it is written in a language you don't understand or him.
Hello Muslima, I did not intend to imply that I Believed translations are of no benefit.
I have been repeatedly told that this is the viewpoint of the majority of Muslims.

Here's a thought to ponder.
If the entire planet converted to Islam, would there still be a need for the Burka & Niqaab ?

I ask because this seems to be a requirement in keeping hidden those attributes from the prying eyes of non-believers.

:hi:

[islandhopper]

Muslima wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam.

What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?

Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim.

it is good enough for the people who want to be muslims. it is amazing but convertion depends on two things:

1. either muslims are not good at presenting islam, which is what is happening now

or

2. non-muslims don't want to convert because many don't believe in any religion or don't know much about the quran.

same thing for africa, it depends on the person, let's use richard as an example (excuse me richard). he knows many things about islam, but still he is not a muslim because he might no want to be one. it is the same in africa with the two choices above.

Many non-muslims don't believe in any religion? Ah, hello; Christians and Jews ring a bell? Perhaps there are 2 more reasons for not converting to Islam; 3) happy with current religion; or 4) knows much about Islam and cannot see self as a muslim.

These reasons are added to indicate that not all people can or will see Islam as the best thing going around. If you want to present Islam in a positive light, start by being humble and quit thinking that there are 2 kinds of people in this world: Muslims and non-Muslims.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

islandhopper wrote: Muslima wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam.

What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?

Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim.

it is good enough for the people who want to be muslims. it is amazing but convertion depends on two things:

1. either muslims are not good at presenting islam, which is what is happening now

or

2. non-muslims don't want to convert because many don't believe in any religion or don't know much about the quran.

same thing for africa, it depends on the person, let's use richard as an example (excuse me richard). he knows many things about islam, but still he is not a muslim because he might no want to be one. it is the same in africa with the two choices above.

Many non-muslims don't believe in any religion? Ah, hello; Christians and Jews ring a bell? Perhaps there are 2 more reasons for not converting to Islam; 3) happy with current religion; or 4) knows much about Islam and cannot see self as a muslim.

These reasons are added to indicate that not all people can or will see Islam as the best thing going around. If you want to present Islam in a positive light, start by being humble and quit thinking that there are 2 kinds of people in this world: Muslims and non-Muslims.

" ... and quit thinking that there are 2 kinds of people in this world: Muslims and non-Muslims "

Perhaps you misunderstand Islam?
Islam dictates the point precisely and emphatically that there are only two types of people, Muslims and non-Muslims.
Kinda like that ole claim of 'You are either with us or against us'

Same sentiment exists in Islamic circles.

[Muslima]

richard who tolld you that the nigaab and burka are only for non-believers?

if i decided to cover my face one day i will have to cover in front of my brother in laws, male cousins and the rest of the muslim males before covering it in front of non-believers. but it is good that i don't.

may i ask you why do refuse mohammad but you still don't have anything against him?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Muslima wrote: richard who tolld you that the nigaab and burka are only for non-believers?

if i decided to cover my face one day i will have to cover in front of my brother in laws, male cousins and the rest of the muslim males before covering it in front of non-believers. but it is good that i don't.

may i ask you why do refuse mohammad but you still don't have anything against him?

As I understand, the nigaab and burka were meant to segragate muslims from the gaze of non-muslims.


As for Mohammad, he may have been a man of great intellect, insight and virtue but,
receive personal instruction directly from God? I see no evidence in either history or the writings.
That does not mean I can not learn from his examples but, I can not recite the Shahada.

Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaahu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulallah
transliteration:
"I bear witness that there is no god except God and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. "

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote:

it is good enough for the people who want to be muslims. it is amazing but convertion depends on two things:

1. either muslims are not good at presenting islam, which is what is happening now

or

2. non-muslims don't want to convert because many don't believe in any religion or don't know much about the quran.

same thing for africa, it depends on the person, let's use richard as an example (excuse me richard). he knows many things about islam, but still he is not a muslim because he might no want to be one. it is the same in africa with the two choices above.

...Ever considered that maybe some people like Christianity or Judaism better? Oh no, that's impossible, because Islam is the best :roll:

[Muslima]

demonic spoon i might have, who knows?

[Muslima]

Quote: As I understand, the nigaab and burka were meant to segragate muslims from the gaze of non-muslims.

hope you now know the right thing.


Quote: As for Mohammad, he may have been a man of great intellect, insight and virtue but,
receive personal instruction directly from God? I see no evidence in either history or the writings.
That does not mean I can not learn from his examples but, I can not recite the Shahada.

Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaahu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulallah
transliteration:
"I bear witness that there is no god except God and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. "

it is easy to say but it might not be easy to believe it.
he didn't receive direct instructions from god, gabriael the angel used to give him the messages to god, moses is the one who talk to god directly.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Muslima wrote: Quote: As I understand, the nigaab and burka were meant to segregate muslims from the gaze of non-muslims.

hope you now know the right thing.


Quote: As for Mohammad, he may have been a man of great intellect, insight and virtue but,
receive personal instruction directly from God? I see no evidence in either history or the writings.
That does not mean I can not learn from his examples but, I can not recite the Shahada.

Ash hadu anlaa ilaaha illallaahu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulallah
transliteration:
"I bear witness that there is no god except God and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. "

it is easy to say but it might not be easy to believe it.
he didn't receive direct instructions from god, gabriael the angel used to give him the messages to god, moses is the one who talk to god directly.

Muslima, the entire Koran is a conglomeration of old stories past down from the Torah and thought's which emanated from the mind of Mohammad.
The claim of his "Night Flight" is a prime example.
Quote: The Miraj or Night Journey to Heaven

Two years after the death of Khadijah, in the twelfth year of his "calling", Muhammad is reported to have gone on a mysterious night journey (Miraj).

The angel Gabriel cut open Muhammad in his sleep, washed him inside with Zimzim water and filled his heart with science and faith. An animal by the name of Buraq, apparently horse-like and white, and with a human face, was provided for a ride from the mosque in Mecca to the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, from where he ascended supposedly on a ladder of light to the heavens.

Islamic sources state that this happened "in the spirit", his body remaining behind. But the mosque al-Aqsa was not yet in existence at that time. Maybe the Jewish temple was meant, although it had been completely destroyed 550 years previously.

Islam teaches the existence of seven heavens. In the first heaven Muhammad supposedly met Adam; in the second, John the Baptist and Jesus; in the third, Joseph; in the fourth, Enoch; in the fifth, Aaron; in the sixth, Moses; and in the seventh, Abraham (who welcomed him as "Good son and good prophet"). Fifty prayers were ordained by Allah to be said by all believers daily. On the journey back, Moses, in the sixth heaven, encouraged Muhammad to go back to the seventh heaven and request a smaller quota, since this large number would be rather impractical to execute. Ten daily prayers were deducted. Again Moses encouraged Muhammad to go back and ask for still fewer prayers, which was repeated three times, until five daily were set for observance. This Muhammad did not dare query. (According to "Siratu'l Rasul" vs. 270-271)


Now, imagine going on this incredible journey whereby you meet
Adam; John the Baptist and Jesus; Joseph; Enoch; Aaron; Moses; and Abraham.
With all this to impress upon you that you are indeed a servant of Allah and a chosen Prophet yet,
instead of taking the command of Allah, he goes back and forth, negotiating as if he was in any position to do so!

Maybe this dream state does in deed contain truthfulness as related by Mohammad,
I tend to see it as merely a dream which he personally interpreted.

In truth, I have experienced similar dream states so if I proclaimed to being a prophet of God,
my proclamation is just as valid as Mohammad's.

Seriously, if Islam redacted all writings except those containing wisdom for the people to follow and edited out all the personal declarations of social mandates made by Mohammad and his followers, the world would indeed be a much better place.

[Muslima]

what i understand is that you are saying that mohammad is not the prophet?

or what mohammad did in his life is not what god wanted him to do?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Muslima wrote: what i understand is that you are saying that Mohammad is not the prophet?

or what Mohammad did in his life is not what god wanted him to do?

Basically, what I have observed is that while Mohammad may have been Pius, determined, socially conscious he took it upon himself to declare himself more than a simple man who follows the right path.
He instituted a form of hero Worship surrounding himself with people who believed in whatever he said and did.

Basically, he saw a yearning in the people surrounding him and developed a Cult around His Personality.

So, while you may read of his exploits and adventures they are not to be followed to the letter as if mimicking Mohammad's actions.

Quote: Jesus does not require his disciples to believe in him but rather to believe with him, believe in the reality of the love of God and in full confidence accept the security of the assurance of sonship with the heavenly Father. The Master desires that all his followers should fully share his transcendent faith. Jesus most touchingly challenged his followers, not only to believe what he believed, but also to believe as he believed.
This is the full significance of his one supreme requirement, "Follow me."

I believe the same holds true with Mohammad.
" not only to believe what he believed, but also to believe as he believed. "

Far too much emphasis has been placed upon 'what would Mohammad do'
Remove all those references and you will come to the question 'what did Mohammad believe'
Which is the root of all revelations.

[Muslima]

richard he believed what i and every muslim believes that there is no god but allah and he is his messenger who lived the worst life ever for islam to spread, everything concerning with religion and faith was from allah as for other issues mohammad said you people know better than i do about your non-religious life.

have you read his biography?