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Robin Hood
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3295
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: a Saudian returned to islam after 18 years just recently, still doubt?
Surely an Arabian? But never mind, when I said 'I doubt it' I was referring to trends not one man. I could find an example of a man doing pretty much anything.
Quote: it is not to a superstition to believe, it is a religion as any other in this world.
...and all religions are superstitions, compartmentalized and loosley ordered.
Quote: Not the same thing. Alcohol, bad drugs (not medical), ham, gambling, porn, etc, etc.
Um...where does it say in the Quran thou shalt not inject heroin? Where does it say in Quran: thou shall stop others from imbibing alcohol? Certainly it doesn't advocat the banning of ham, only that Muslims not eat it. THe same can be said, in fact, of all of those.
I don't think the Quran suggests imprisoning someone for having a beer, or in fact punishing them at all. No religion is that wacko - except maybe Scientology.
Quote: death threats and burning no. but i think not buying the danish products for a while did the job, which wasn't harmful at all.
There is nothing wrong in withdrawing your custom from anyoe you choose for any reason. It's your custom, I will always respect that. On the other hand it seems a little harsh to punish all Danish pople because a newspaper made a few cartoons - i.e they weren't responsible for it. Still it's your prerogative.
Quote: what is their level literacy?
I don't know, but I assume that the members of the Iranian government can read. I may have little respect for them, but not that low.
Quote: they are distasteful, but you have said your self, it was and it still is, but the difference is how it was used and it is used.
So how's it going to be reverted back into it's old use, or even the use improved? |
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Muslima
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1566
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Quote: Um...where does it say in the Quran thou shalt not inject heroin? Where does it say in Quran: thou shall stop others from imbibing alcohol? Certainly it doesn't advocat the banning of ham, only that Muslims not eat it. THe same can be said, in fact, of all of those.
I don't think the Quran suggests imprisoning someone for having a beer, or in fact punishing them at all. No religion is that wacko - except maybe Scientology.
the quran doesn't say anything about heroin, but in islam there is a base of comparing things to each other. it does say that alcohol is bad:
O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, AlAnsāb[], and AlAzlām
(arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitān's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid
(strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful[].(surat almaidah; 90)
the base says that whatever makes the mind not its right status is forbidden....we called it the science of FIQH. so measuring herion, cocaine, even smoking cigerattes to alcohol, they all have the same effect on the body and mind.
it doesn't say punish them, and ham is mentioned in the quran but not directly.
Quote: So how's it going to be reverted back into it's old use, or even the use improved?
by doing exactly what islam asks us to do. |
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cap'n queasy
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 34968
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| If anything, the fact that the Koran eschews vices like intoxicants and gambling is a good thing. |
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Showboat
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Dongguan City, China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| I always assumed drugs shuch as heroin, coke,etc were covered under intoxicants because the befuddle the mind. |
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Robin Hood
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3295
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Quote: avoid
'Avoid', is in no way, WHATSOEVER equivalent to 'prohibit'. It isn't even equivalent to 'never do'. Simply put, it's a not unfair recognition that gambling and alcohol may get in the way of the pursuit of success, thus advising people to avoid them.
Quote: the base says
What is 'the base'?
Quote: it doesn't say punish them,
So prohibition is out of the question? |
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Dagger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
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intoxicant
A psychoactive drug or psychotropic substance is a chemical that alters brain function, resulting in temporary changes in perception, mood, consciousness, or behaviour. Such drugs are often used for recreational and spiritual purposes, as well as in medicine, especially for treating neurological and psychological illnesses. |
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Muslima
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Quote: 'Avoid', is in no way, WHATSOEVER equivalent to 'prohibit'. It isn't even equivalent to 'never do'. Simply put, it's a not unfair recognition that gambling and alcohol may get in the way of the pursuit of success, thus advising people to avoid them.
Well gambling causes people to lose money, landmarks and family. so it is destroyer.
alcohol causes killing or losing life besides other diseases. it is destroyer.
so avoid it!
Quote: What is 'the base'?
it is similar when you have a set of rules, but they are not rules, that you follow, so it is like a base.
Quote: So prohibition is out of the question?
sometimes its not. |
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Robin Hood
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3295
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Quote: so avoid it!
I never gamble, but alcohol in moderation is extremely healthy. A glass of red wine a day is very good for you indeed.
Quote: sometimes its not.
Why not? |
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Dagger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Robin Hood wrote: Quote: so avoid it!
I never gamble, but alcohol in moderation is extremely healthy. A glass of red wine a day is very good for you indeed.
Quote: sometimes its not.
Why not?
drinking poison is good.
Sweet. All i got right now is rat poison. ill take some now. ill buy some alcohol later.
id say gambling is better than alcohol. Gambling will make you go broke but it wont kill you. or make you gamble stupid. |
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Showboat
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Dongguan City, China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Dagger wrote: Robin Hood wrote: Quote: so avoid it!
I never gamble, but alcohol in moderation is extremely healthy. A glass of red wine a day is very good for you indeed.
Quote: sometimes its not.
Why not?
drinking poison is good.
Sweet. All i got right now is rat poison. ill take some now. ill buy some alcohol later.
id say gambling is better than alcohol. Gambling will make you go broke but it wont kill you. or make you gamble stupid.
Studies that shown that a sensible amount of alcohol a day prevents heart disease. It's only when you start getting drunk regulary that it becomes a health risk.
I wouldn't recomend rat poison, don't think that contains alcohol. :)
I don't gamble, not a religious thing, I just take a look at how rich casinos and bookmakers are and realise that you ain't gonna win in the end. |
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Dagger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Showboat wrote: Dagger wrote: Robin Hood wrote: Quote: so avoid it!
I never gamble, but alcohol in moderation is extremely healthy. A glass of red wine a day is very good for you indeed.
Quote: sometimes its not.
Why not?
drinking poison is good.
Sweet. All i got right now is rat poison. ill take some now. ill buy some alcohol later.
id say gambling is better than alcohol. Gambling will make you go broke but it wont kill you. or make you gamble stupid.
Studies that shown that a sensible amount of alcohol a day prevents heart disease. It's only when you start getting drunk regulary that it becomes a health risk.
I wouldn't recomend rat poison, don't think that contains alcohol. :)
I don't gamble, not a religious thing, I just take a look at how rich casinos and bookmakers are and realise that you ain't gonna win in the end.
yeah actually ive heard the heart disease thing too.
But the thing is people dont drink modertly. Well most dont. |
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mendosan
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 2580
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: But the thing is people dont drink modertly. Well most dont.
Evidence? |
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Dagger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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mendosan wrote: Quote: But the thing is people dont drink modertly. Well most dont.
Evidence?
Alcohol is the main reason for car accidents
usually most families with "issues" have alcohol involved.
s**t like that dosnt happen from drinking modertly. All my firends drink to get drunk. not to enjoy bad tasting alcohol. I rarely meet people drinking to enjoy the taste.
Maybe im wrong, but i think most ppl drink to get drunk, not all but most.
id give you stats. but im packing right now to leave for vaction. lol peace out guys |
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Showboat
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Dongguan City, China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Dagger wrote: mendosan wrote: Quote: But the thing is people dont drink modertly. Well most dont.
Evidence?
Alcohol is the main reason for car accidents
usually most families with "issues" have alcohol involved.
s**t like that dosnt happen from drinking modertly. All my firends drink to get drunk. not to enjoy bad tasting alcohol. I rarely meet people drinking to enjoy the taste.
Maybe im wrong, but i think most ppl drink to get drunk, not all but most.
id give you stats. but im packing right now to leave for vaction. lol peace out guys
My boss drinks because he likes the taste, he's a real ale nut. I, on the other hand, mostly drink to get drunk because, quite frankly, it's great. :D
Enjoy your holiday. |
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Demonic Spoon
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 6804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Why? |
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Muslima wrote: :-D
Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world in your opinion?
why do you think people to convert to islam mostly not to other religions?
of course you would want my opinion to start with......
Islam is the fastest growing because
all religions in the world + issues unconcerned with religion - things that seem irrational = ISLAM
People convert to islam because (as i read in many books) they find islam very relaxing and very helpful.
You have got to be f***ing joking.
"Things that seem irrational"
You really think that what's in the Koran is more rational than what's in other holy texts? |
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Muslima
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1566
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Robin Hood"] Quote: Certainly it doesn't advocat the banning of ham, only that Muslims not eat it.
sorry, earlier i have posted that ham is not mentioned in the quran. I was did mistake, it is mentioned. |
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Muslima
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1566
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Why? |
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Demonic Spoon wrote: Muslima wrote: :-D
Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world in your opinion?
why do you think people to convert to islam mostly not to other religions?
of course you would want my opinion to start with......
Islam is the fastest growing because
all religions in the world + issues unconcerned with religion - things that seem irrational = ISLAM
People convert to islam because (as i read in many books) they find islam very relaxing and very helpful.
You have got to be f***ing joking.
"Things that seem irrational"
You really think that what's in the Koran is more rational than what's in other holy texts?
everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam. |
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Muslima
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1566
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Quote: I never gamble, but alcohol in moderation is extremely healthy. A glass of red wine a day is very good for you indeed.
Yes i know it is healthy in moderation and this is what the verse says:
"They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling.[] Say: "In them is a
great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask
you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allāh makes clear to
you His Laws in order that you may give thought."[al-baqarah-219]
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَآ أَكْبَرُ مِن نَّفْعِهِمَا وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلِ الْعَفْوَ كَذَلِكَ يُبيِّنُ اللّهُ لَكُمُ الآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَفَكَّرُونَ (219)
Quote: Why not?
because of prevention is mentioned in the quran. prevention is never out of the question, in everything in this world. |
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Demonic Spoon
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 6804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before islam.
What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?
Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim. |
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Richard Owl Mirror
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 9002
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: everybody views their holy book as the best, but I didn't mean things in other religions, i meant things that existed in mecca before Islam.
What the hell is your point? Apparently Islam wasn't good enough for Europe, or Asia, or the Americas. If the Koran is so damn amazing then why is it that we haven't converted yet?
Better yet, why is Africa split between Christianity and Islam? If Islam was so awesome, then you'd think that Africa would be all Muslim.
Frankly, there's this tiny problem in that the Koran was written in Arabic and most Muslims will tell you that the WORD of GOD can not be understood without reading and understanding Arabic.
Most will also tell you that translations are not to be trusted.
I've never quite understood how God intended his message to encompass the entire world and all it's people, then restricted it to only Arabic .
I would have thought an entity who has all-encompassing creative power could have come up with a better disbursement system for his message. |
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