Political Crossfire Forums

[cap'n queasy]

I thought this is a very interesting and relevent letter, to folks who live in our times.


Quote: 2 Peter 3:
Purpose of This Letter

1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.


The Coming Day of the Lord

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

A New Heaven and Earth

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity.

Amen.


I hope this helps people out there. :-D

[dtwizzy2k5]

Quote: Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Quote: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Good Post :tu: Very inspiring

[feederband]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Yeah mindless freaks they should all be put in a cage...Good thing we have your great wisdom on here..

[cap'n queasy]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Quote: Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Quote: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Good Post :tu: Very inspiring

Well, I'm glad at least one person was inspired by it. :-D

[John]

cap'n queasy wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Quote: Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Quote: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Good Post :tu: Very inspiring

Well, I'm glad at least one person was inspired by it. :-D

More than one. :-D

[Vercingetorix]

Sounds similar to the book of Revelations... Mainly, that a battle between good and evil will happen, and good will win. (Yup, that's all it says. If you think it says anything more specific, you're looking too hard.)

[cap'n queasy]

John wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Quote: Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Quote: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Good Post :tu: Very inspiring

Well, I'm glad at least one person was inspired by it. :-D

More than one. :-D

I knew I could count on you, John. :wink:

[cap'n queasy]

Vercingetorix wrote: Sounds similar to the book of Revelations... Mainly, that a battle between good and evil will happen, and good will win. (Yup, that's all it says. If you think it says anything more specific, you're looking too hard.)

No, that is not all these passages say. In fact that has nothing to do with what the scriptures say at all. They specifically say evil will overwhelm the world through a covenant of false peace brokered by a false christ, and will slaughter any righteous people they can find. And that God will take any who have the Holy Spirit out of the world before this tribulation begins and destroy the rest at the end of it. Y'shua will appear at the head of His host at this time and do this by Himself, while the host watches.

There is nothing resembling any forces of good winning any battles against the forces of evil in the endtime anywhere in the scripture.

[John]

Quote: 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

I find it interesting that Peter seemed to be describing destruction on a molecular level. Pretty scientific for a fisherman of his days.

[toddytodd]

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Quote: Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Quote: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sounds a lot like the ignorant atheists on this forum :wink:

Good Post :tu: Very inspiring

Calling an atheist ignorant does nothing to promote Christianity, nor does it delude the atheist point of view in any way. What it does do is show limited patience and a bad attitude that fuels the hatred of Christians and Christianity alike.

[cap'n queasy]

That's not what fuels the hatred of Christianity.

[Snarf]

cap'n queasy wrote: That's not what fuels the hatred of Christianity.
Christians, and their lack of any behavior like their idol Jesus, is what inspires that.

The hatred that you find so offensive is created by those who do their best to turn the entire world into themselves, including their governments, and gleefully kill those who refuse to convert. Christians are hated for perfectly valid reasons; they just lack the humility to see that those who believe differently than they do might just be right…

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: they just lack the humility to see that those who believe differently than they do might just be right…

Boy, that's some some real humility, right there. Thanks for showing me how to do it.

:lol:

[Snarf]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: they just lack the humility to see that those who believe differently than they do might just be right…

Boy, that's some some real humility, right there. Thanks for showing me how to do it.

:lol:
That's the difference between our 'faiths'. Your faith wants everyone to be a Christian, just like Islam wants everyone to be a Muslim. Mine wants everyone to seek out their own beliefs and be tolerant of others who also support tolerance.

When Christianity can state that it is only one of the potential ways to seek God, or that God might not even exist, then I'll give it a break. Until such time, it is an agent of intolerance that must not be tolerated as it is currently practiced.

To me, Christianity just might be right. To you, it can never be wrong.

You deserve no more tolerance than people who fly planes into buildings seeking God's blessing. Understanding is one thing, tolerance is quite another. Christians don’t tolerate other faiths and that is something to be hated and fought against and denounced loudly all over the world...

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Mine wants everyone to seek out their own beliefs and be tolerant of others who also support tolerance.


I'm not detecting much tolerance or humility. But OK, whatever.

I'm glad you got that off your chest.

[sLiPpY]

Snarf wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: they just lack the humility to see that those who believe differently than they do might just be right…

Boy, that's some some real humility, right there. Thanks for showing me how to do it.

:lol:
That's the difference between our 'faiths'. Your faith wants everyone to be a Christian, just like Islam wants everyone to be a Muslim. Mine wants everyone to seek out their own beliefs and be tolerant of others who also support tolerance.

When Christianity can state that it is only one of the potential ways to seek God, or that God might not even exist, then I'll give it a break. Until such time, it is an agent of intolerance that must not be tolerated as it is currently practiced.

To me, Christianity just might be right. To you, it can never be wrong.

You deserve no more tolerance than people who fly planes into buildings seeking God's blessing. Understanding is one thing, tolerance is quite another. Christians don’t tolerate other faiths and that is something to be hated and fought against and denounced loudly all over the world...

:woo:

btw...that's why I likes psholz. He has his beliefs, and where we can agree and explore...we do. But he doesn't impose where we don't agree, he doesn't even offer...and just like snarfer! He'z smat!..err smart! :-D

[toddytodd]

cap'n queasy wrote: That's not what fuels the hatred of Christianity.

I disagree, which is obvious as seen in my previous post. Is this the only reason? No. Is this one reason? Yes.
When a person calls themselves a christian then proceeds to call other stupid, belittles people, are rude and hateful to others who disagree with them (etc), other people see this as a less-than-christian attitude. Their response can be "Why would I want to be a christian if they act like this?"
Granted, not all Christians act this way. However, as I am sure you know, it only takes a couple to spoil 'the taste' of Christianity to many. This is why I believe Christians should (try to) live to a higher standard and set a good example.

[Todd D.]

I concur. Arrogance turns people off, in general, and when people get, for lack of a better term, "Holier than thou" it really tends to turn people off to the ideology being presented. I've found that most of the problems people have with Christianity is not the ideals being presented (though it should be noted, some do), it's that the people who follow those ideals are arrogant enough to presume that they have a right to force those ideals on somebody.

[cap'n queasy]

Can you point some this "arrogant Christianity forcing" out to me?

How can you force Christianity on someone? You cannot force them to be a Christian even if you had total and complete control over every aspect of their lives. Saying that adultery, lying, stealing, killing etc is wrong and that Christianity reflects this standard is not "forcing Christianity down anyone anyone's throat". That's hyperbole.

To think that way is to be ignorant of the principles of Christianity. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Ignorant doesn't mean stupid, it means uninformed, generally with an attitude that summarily rejects ever becoming informed. And it is this attitude that hates Christianity. They interpret love as hate, and guidance as forcing.

It IS ignorant to think this way.

[Todd D.]

An example? Sure: the enforcement of morality in aspects of individual lives that is more often than not advocated by the "Moral Majority" / "Christian Right" in America. The obvious (and, quite frankly, played out) example these days is the uproar over same sex marraige, but it can also be seen in the Blue Laws, for example.

Your point that enforcing behavioral standards is not "forcing Christianity" down one's throat is true in that "Christianity" reflects a change of heart that in no way can be enforced from "top down" legislation, on that much we agree. However, we agree because our frame of reference both comes from a Christian background. To someone on the outside, what they see is "A Christian is telling me what I can and can't do based upon their Bible, despite the fact that I don't recognize their Bible as accurate". In their minds, that can not only sour their view of the people "forcing" those opinions on them, but the ideology that they see as driving that decision as well.