Political Crossfire Forums

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198297,00.html

Oh wait a minute, it's illegal to bring guns to school.... how come the shooter didn't obey the law? Don't gun control laws stop crime? :think:

rytis · Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: back in USA

my friend says there is evidence that these shootings are by people who have been purposely provoked by a clan whos aim is to dissarm america, because a dissarmed nation can very quickly and easily be turned into slaves.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

rytis wrote: my friend says there is evidence that these shootings are by people who have been purposely provoked by a clan whos aim is to dissarm america, because a dissarmed nation can very quickly and easily be turned into slaves.

I wouldn't doubt it.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3559 Location: London

The UK is relatively disarmed and my government hasn't tried to turn me into a slave yet.

:?

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

britboy wrote: The UK is relatively disarmed and my government hasn't tried to turn me into a slave yet.

:?

Give it time.

RooK · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2006 Location: SE Kentucky

Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

britboy · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 3559 Location: London

True about the official policy.

Anyone here though can buy a massive variety of swords, knives, daggers, nun-chuks, anything really. And they do.

The 'loop-hole' is the companys that sell them, sell them completely blunt so then they are just 'ornaments' and 'antiques'. Bulls*it and everyone knows it. Within about 20 minutes of owning them most people have sharpened them up.

RooK · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2006 Location: SE Kentucky

You might be able to sharpen them, but then your in possession of an illegal object. Just because you can circumvent the law doesn't mean that the law is ok. I could assemble an 'assault weapon' during the ban (in fact I have, post-sunset), but that doesn't mean it should be a law in the first place. The reasoning is moronic and the effects on your ability to defend yourself and rights to personal property are real and devastating.

thundertaker · Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:

RooK wrote: Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

I own a bloody great sword without anyone's permission, so I'll assume you're just exaggerating for effect.
On the other hand, our police generally aren't armed. So I'd say it has more to do with the fact we have a different attitude towards guns, nor are we under any illusion that a bunch of civvies with guns are any match for a western army packing the hardware that is out of the reach of ordinary individuals....

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

thundertaker wrote: RooK wrote: Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

I own a bloody great sword without anyone's permission, so I'll assume you're just exaggerating for effect.
On the other hand, our police generally aren't armed. So I'd say it has more to do with the fact we have a different attitude towards guns, nor are we under any illusion that a bunch of civvies with guns are any match for a western army packing the hardware that is out of the reach of ordinary individuals....

Well that's kinda the point, let's make that hardware within the reach of ordinary individuals.

Isn't it funny how our grandfathers could bring guns back from WWII and they were called heirlooms but today if a soldier does that it's considered stealing and illegal weapons trafficking.

Jefferson · Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3180

thundertaker wrote: RooK wrote: Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

I own a bloody great sword without anyone's permission, so I'll assume you're just exaggerating for effect.
On the other hand, our police generally aren't armed. So I'd say it has more to do with the fact we have a different attitude towards guns, nor are we under any illusion that a bunch of civvies with guns are any match for a western army packing the hardware that is out of the reach of ordinary individuals....

If it were not for civilian guns, you would be speaking German right now:

"Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.

Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander’s face as he frankly answered the question. You are right, he told the Americans. We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand. "

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob70.html

If Japan landed in Hawaii and America had to fight them off before defeating the Nazis, you may very well be in German occupied state today.

You can thank civilian guns for that.

Winchester · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 7557 Location: Montana

thundertaker wrote: RooK wrote: Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

I own a bloody great sword without anyone's permission, so I'll assume you're just exaggerating for effect.
On the other hand, our police generally aren't armed. So I'd say it has more to do with the fact we have a different attitude towards guns, nor are we under any illusion that a bunch of civvies with guns are any match for a western army packing the hardware that is out of the reach of ordinary individuals....

I dissagree, modern armies are pretty much unable to stop guerilla warfare (short of complete annihilation of all combatants and noncombatants), the more guns in civilian hands, the harder its going to be for them to win. Will it be bloody, yes, but the side with the most will to fight will win in the long run. Government armies will be made up of volunteers or draftees, most of which will tire of the fight long before guerilla's fighting for their homes and way of life.

Much, much easier to win if they take our guns first.

mattman42 · Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 661 Location: Maine

Well said, Winchester.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6942 Location: Ohio

Quote: If it were not for civilian guns, you would be speaking German right now:

...Uhh, really now? I'm sorry, my history classes forgot to mention the German invasion of the US :roll:
Quote:

"Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.

Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander’s face as he frankly answered the question. You are right, he told the Americans. We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand. "

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob70.html

If Japan landed in Hawaii and America had to fight them off before defeating the Nazis, you may very well be in German occupied state today.

You can thank civilian guns for that.

...except for the fact that the Japanese army/navy wasn't CLOSE to what the US had. They wouldn't have touched our soil even if they could have.

A better example would be how the Third Reich ignored Switzerland when they dominated Europe, due to the fact that all Swiss citizens were packing, despite the fact that they had no army.

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 22263 Location: Sin City

Quote: Much, much easier to win if they take our guns first. :tu:

airo · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 2583 Location: Tampa, Florida

Winchester wrote: thundertaker wrote: RooK wrote: Britboy, you can't even own a big knife without the government's permission. You're well on your way back to serfdom, whether you realize it or not.

I own a bloody great sword without anyone's permission, so I'll assume you're just exaggerating for effect.
On the other hand, our police generally aren't armed. So I'd say it has more to do with the fact we have a different attitude towards guns, nor are we under any illusion that a bunch of civvies with guns are any match for a western army packing the hardware that is out of the reach of ordinary individuals....

I dissagree, modern armies are pretty much unable to stop guerilla warfare (short of complete annihilation of all combatants and noncombatants), the more guns in civilian hands, the harder its going to be for them to win. Will it be bloody, yes, but the side with the most will to fight will win in the long run. Government armies will be made up of volunteers or draftees, most of which will tire of the fight long before guerilla's fighting for their homes and way of life.

Much, much easier to win if they take our guns first.

I think that people (And it seems mostly these people happen to be British.) don't grasp a simple concept: It's irrelevant whether we win or lose. To die in the name of principal, and to at least TRY and stop tyranny is better than to let it roll over you and live complacently under it.

The minute you ALLOW tyranny to reign, you deserve to be oppressed, because you have not asserted your rights as a free human, and furthermore deserve to loose them.

OneZero · Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 3413

Demonic Spoon wrote: Quote: If it were not for civilian guns, you would be speaking German right now:

...Uhh, really now? I'm sorry, my history classes forgot to mention the German invasion of the US :roll:
Quote:

"Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.

Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander’s face as he frankly answered the question. You are right, he told the Americans. We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand. "

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob70.html

If Japan landed in Hawaii and America had to fight them off before defeating the Nazis, you may very well be in German occupied state today.

You can thank civilian guns for that.

...except for the fact that the Japanese army/navy wasn't CLOSE to what the US had. They wouldn't have touched our soil even if they could have.

A better example would be how the Third Reich ignored Switzerland when they dominated Europe, due to the fact that all Swiss citizens were packing, despite the fact that they had no army.

He was talking about the UK... try to pay attention.

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:44 am Post subject:

Jefferson wrote:
If it were not for civilian guns, you would be speaking German right now:

"Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.

Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander’s face as he frankly answered the question. You are right, he told the Americans. We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand. "

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob70.html

If Japan landed in Hawaii and America had to fight them off before defeating the Nazis, you may very well be in German occupied state today.

You can thank civilian guns for that.

Are you on crack? It was the militaries of the respective allied countries that defeated the Axis powers. As for the Swiss, they did have an army, and every swiss male citizen has to undergo military training as well as keep a rifle at home. Also, the terrein is mountainous and difficult, and it wasn't worth the effort of invading them when they were more interested in fighting the USSR instead.
They didn't invade Sweden either, because there was no point in tying up resources when they could get what they wanted out of them without having to conquer them anyway....

As for the UK being a largely gun-free society. Great. The police don't generally need to have guns, so it's more difficult for them to make a mistake and shoot dead innocent people, and we don't have even a fraction of the mental cases going on an unchecked gun rampage at schools as they do in the states.
Great isn't it?

cplcarlman · Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 36

thundertaker wrote: As for the UK being a largely gun-free society. Great. The police don't generally need to have guns, so it's more difficult for them to make a mistake and shoot dead innocent people, and we don't have even a fraction of the mental cases going on an unchecked gun rampage at schools as they do in the states.
Great isn't it?

I would imagine the number of innocent people being shot by our police is relatively minute. Also, these "unchecked gun rampages at schools" happen because these maniacs know schools are gun free zones. They have no fear of immediate violent retaliation. Why do you think post offices get shot up? They are "gun free" as well.

Personally I think your are are extremely retarded to think since you haven't had to defend yourself as a people for the last 60 yearsf that you will never have to defend yourselves from your government. It may not happen this year, next year, or even 100 years from now.

My question to you is how will you defend stance to your descendents when they are euthanized for some as of yet unknown superficial reason? You can call me paranoid if you want, but remember those who forget history are destined to repeat it.

thundertaker · Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:19 am Post subject:

We live in a country of laws, if it ever did start to turn another way, guns won't do much. Iraq was always awash with guns even during Saddam's time. He used helicopter gunships and tanks to crush the Shiite uprising following the gulf war with brutal efficiency.
The idea that guns defend against a tyrannical government in this day and age is a load of crock.
Tell me what happened 140 years ago, the last time large sections of the american people tried to rebel against their government? And that was before there was a significant technology gap between what civilians can own, and what a government-backed military can own......

PS, I would venture to suggest that calling people you disagree with 'retarded' because you hold a different opinion reflects rather badly on the argument you are trying to convey. Just a little bit of advice for future reference....