Political Crossfire Forums

[alcoholcrate]

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Mesopotamia/Mithraism/mithraism_and_christianity_i.htm


http://www.livingstonemusic.net/godmen.htm


Jesus seems to be a plagiarism of Horus

Identical Life Experiences
(1) It is written that both Horus and Jesus existed before their incarnations.
(2) Horus was born of the virgin Isis on December 25th in a cave/manger.
(3) Horus' birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
(4) The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." (Matt. 2:15)

(5) He was a child teacher in the temple and was baptized by “Anup the Baptizer” when he was thirty years old.

(6) He had twelve disciples and performed miracles such as feeding bread to the multitude and walking on water.

(7) He raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
(8) He transfigured on a mount.
(9) He also had titles such as the "way, the truth, the light, the Messiah, God's anointed Son, the Son of Man, the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the Word, the Morning Star, the light of the world.”

(10) He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the lamb, lion and fish ("Ichthys").
(11) Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
(12) Horus was called "KRST," or "Anointed One.”
(13) He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
(14) The adoration of the Virgin and Child is connected with both the adoration of Isis and the infant Horus and the adoration of Mary and infant Jesus. In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis, the original "Madonna and Child."

(15) Concerning the writing of the Gnostics, C. W. King, a noted English author, says: "To this period belongs a beautiful sard in my collection, representing Serapis,...whilst before him stands Isis, holding in one hand the sistrum, in the other a wheatsheaf, with the legend: 'Immaculate is our lady Isis,' the very term applied afterwards to that personage who succeeded to her form, her symbols, rites, and ceremonies" (Gnostics and Their Remains, p. 71).

(16) Osiris, Isis, and Horus are the principal trinity of the Egyptian religions. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Christian trinity. Dr. Inman affirms the Egyptian roots of the Christian trinity "The Christian trinity is of Egyptian origin, and is as surely a pagan doctrine as the belief in heaven and hell, the existence of a devil, of archangels, angels, spirits and saints, martyrs and virgins, intercessors in heaven, gods and demigods, and other forms of faith which deface the greater part of modern religions" (Ancient Pagan and Modem Christian Symbolism, p. 13).

(17) Dr. Draper says: "For thirty centuries the Egyptians had been familiar with the conception of a triune God. There was hardly a city of any note without its particular triads. Here it was Amum, Maut, and Khonso; there Osiris, Isis, and Horus" (Intellectual Development, Vol. I, p. 191).

(18) Dr. Draper stated: "Views of the Trinity, in accordance with Egyptian tradition, were established. Not only was the adoration of Isis under a new name restored, but even her image standing on the crescent moon reappeared. The well-known effigy of that goddess, with the infant Horus in her arms, has descended to our days in the beautiful artistic creations of the Madonna and Child." (Conflict, p. 48).

(19) Mrs. Besant believes that Christianity has its main roots in Egypt: "It grew out of Egypt; its gospels came from thence [Alexandria]; its ceremonies were learned there; its Virgin is Isis; its Christ, Osiris and Horus."

(20) There are two stories connected with Horus that is analogous to stories found in the Old Testament. The hiding of the infant Horus in a marsh by his mother undoubtedly parallels the story of the hiding of the infant Moses in a marsh by his mother. When Horus died, Isis implored Ra, the sun, to restore him to life. Ra stopped his ship in mid-heaven and sent down Thoth, the moon, to bring him back to life. The stopping of the sun and moon by Isis recalls the myth of the stopping of the sun and moon by Joshua.




"Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." - Horus, (Book of the Dead, Ch. 173)

"Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once." - Jesus

[psholtz]

There's a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest that Jesus trained w/ the Egyptians. If this is true, it's quite likely that older Egyptian legends were superimposed on the myth that grew up around Jesus.

[bdw]

alcoholcrate,

Your hate for the Lord is short-lived. Someday, you will be forced to bow before Him and admit your error. But by then it will be too late. :( I hope you enjoy your God-hating life while it lasts; there is a long eternity of torment which awaits you. Unless, that is, you repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ.

[soldierofchrist]

bdw wrote: alcoholcrate,

Your hate for the Lord is short-lived. Someday, you will be forced to bow before Him and admit your error. But by then it will be too late. :( I hope you enjoy your God-hating life while it lasts; there is a long eternity of torment which awaits you. Unless, that is, you repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ.
No, God will never force us to bow to Him, that is where you're wrong.

[Todd D.]

This was already posted in the Conspiracy forum, here's exactly what I wrote:

Quote: Had well over 200 divine names, including Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods, Resurrection and the Life, Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god who "made men and women to be born again."
"Over 200 divine names" bears more in common with the Muslim worship of Allah, whom is said to have had 100 names. The term "Born Again" in the Egyptian demi-God's title is not the same as the Christian concept either, but rather a literal "Coming Back from the Dead" concept.

Quote: Was a devoured Host. His flesh was eaten in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the 'plant of Truth'.
Myth. Osiris was the God of wheat in addition to being the God of the dead. Egyptians believed very much in the "You are what you eat" and felt that by eating the wheat, they would BECOME divine. This is very much different from the Catholic concept of the Eucharist.

Quote: The Lord's Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen beginning, 'O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven. Amen was also invoked at the end of every prayer.
Ha, that's hilarious. "Amen" is a Hebrew Acronym for "God who is trustworthy", or loosely translated as "I believe" or "I agree". "Amen" in Egyptian is the NAME of a deity (Hence why it is saying that "Amen" is in Heaven"). The two are not the same at all.

Quote: The teachings of Osiris and Jesus are wonderfully alike. Many passages are identically the same, word for word.
The teachings in question are almost exclusively moral statements that have been present for a long time. The "word for word" similarity is an outright myth and the result of translations MAKING them word for word. The two spoke entirely different languages (Egyptian vs. Aramaic/Greek), so the idea that they can be "word for word" identical is absolutely absurd.

Quote: As the god of the vine, a great traveling teacher who civilized the world. Ruler and judge of the dead.
Osiris "Judged the Dead" because he was himself dead. His status is comparable to the Greek God of Hades, the ruler of the underworld. This is completely different from the Christian concept of Judgment.

Quote: In his passion, Osiris was plotted against and killed by Set and "the 72."
Set was Osiris's brother. Jesus was not.

Quote: Osiris' resurrection served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal.
That's a stretch. Osiris was ressurected by Annubis so he could father Horus. Jesus was resurrected to TRIUMPH over "death". If anything, this places the two in opposition to each other.

Quote: Was born of the virgin Isis-Meri in December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
Wow, there are a few things wrong with this:
"Meri"? Where did you get that? Her name wasn't "Meri", shoot her name wasn't even really "Isis", that's just a Greek guess at what the Egyptians called her. Egyptologists refer to her as "Ees-et", which again has very little in common with the name Mary. Nice that you made that "fact" up.
-How can you compare "Cave" and "Manger"?
-Neither Horus nor Jesus was born on 12/25, probably because December didn't exist to Egyptians.

Quote: His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").
Actually, Seb was the father to Osiris and Isis, not Horus.

Quote: At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iaurutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" (John the Baptist) who was decapitated.
He ad 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "AAn" (the two "Johns").
These are all untrue.

Quote: He performed miracles, exorcized demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris") from the dead.
Outright lie. Lazerus is not translated as "El-Osiris" in any reliable translation. Besides, Osiris was a deity, Lazerus was a man. How are these comparable?

Quote: He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, was resurrected.
Nope.

Quote: Was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
Horus was the God of the Sky, not water. In fact, Horus had two symbols: the Eye and the Falcon. I dare say that the Falcon is almost the complete opposite to the Fish.

Quote: He came to fulfill the Law.
What Law?

Quote: Titles: Way, the Truth the Light; Messiah; God's Anointed Son; Son of Man; Good Shepherd; Lamb of God; Word made flesh; Word of Truth.
Source?

So yeah, that was fun. Try to research a little next time before you just blindly cut and paste because you want to get a rise out of someone.

[Jonah]

Nice post, Todd D.

Good work. :tu:

[sLiPpY]

psholtz wrote: There's a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest that Jesus trained w/ the Egyptians. If this is true, it's quite likely that older Egyptian legends were superimposed on the myth that grew up around Jesus.

I'd be interested in exploring that possibility as it has been a "hunch." What might be a credible resourse?

There is some speculation that the story of the Israelites running around the desert and escaping from Egypt was also, was taken from another culture. Being there is no evidence it actually occurred. I can't remember the exact name of the group that has "historical context." But it is an interesting aside, and although I'd abandoned my personal explorations as a "believer" long ago...

I've got to say, I have the utmost respect for your own perspective. In that I perceive you have approached the subject with "eyes wide open."

vs. the SOS one might perceive regularly seated in a pew on Sunday. Which above all things, is a charlatanry I do not advocate. :-D

[psholtz]

sLiPpY wrote: There is some speculation that the story of the Israelites running around the desert and escaping from Egypt was also, was taken from another culture. Being there is no evidence it actually occurred. I can't remember the exact name of the group that has "historical context." But it is an interesting aside, and although I'd abandoned my personal explorations as a "believer" long ago...
Are you thinking about the Hyskos? The Shepard Kings?

[Otacon]

Where does Jesus come from? Mary. :lol:

[toddytodd]

I would think that any religious belief would have 'mixed' (to one extent or another) with other popular religions at the time. From what I have seen is that Christianity was very similar to Jewish religion until about 70 AD (if memory serves this early morning), at which point Christian basically broke away from Jewish worship because of political oppression on the Jews from the gov't at the time. Then there are many other beliefs that mirrored Christianity at the time (not sure which came first and whom mirrored whom entirely). But the point is that, when you have thousands of religious people with different beliefs who want to believe in something, it is only a matter of time before religions and beliefs intermix, change, adopt one belief from another religion, replace one belief with another, etc. And the fact that much wasn't written down, saved and discovered as religions evolved. So to be able to point to similarities of one religion from another I don't think is hard to do, and, to some extent, should be expected.

[Random Evil Guy]

the jesus myth isn't based on just one earlier myth; the early christians stole and borrowed from all over the place(horus, mithras, heracles etc) and added some stuff themselves, and pronto, you have jesus mcchrist of the bible...

[toddytodd]

Random Evil Guy wrote: the jesus myth isn't based on just one earlier myth; the early christians stole and borrowed from all over the place(horus, mithras, heracles etc) and added some stuff themselves, and pronto, you have jesus mcchrist of the bible...

I have heard that Christianity draws from many different religions for some of its basis; many of whom I have never heard of, as they were relatively small, undocumented and localized to a specific area. But I believe the same holds true for any religion, not just Christianity.

[Plodder]

this argument was made up by some atheists many years ago. Its actually preatty dumb if you ask me.

[ideal]

Otacon wrote: Where does Jesus come from? Mary. :lol:

I was going to go with Nazareth.

[thefranzkafkafront]

soldierofchrist wrote: bdw wrote: alcoholcrate,

Your hate for the Lord is short-lived. Someday, you will be forced to bow before Him and admit your error. But by then it will be too late. :( I hope you enjoy your God-hating life while it lasts; there is a long eternity of torment which awaits you. Unless, that is, you repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ.
No, God will never force us to bow to Him, that is where you're wrong.

Thank god there are actually christians who understand their own theology.