Political Crossfire Forums

[ToonArmyIsComing]

The BBC has just ruled that word “gay” being used in a deragetory way is ok because it only means “rubbish”. I am no expert on the issue, but isn't it offensive? Surely, they should realize that gay being used this way is offensive towards gay people.

Quote: Gay means rubbish, says BBC
By Adam Sherwin, Media Correspondent
THE word “gay” now means “rubbish” in modern playground-speak and need not be offensive to homosexuals, the BBC Board of Governors has ruled.

A listener complained after Chris Moyles dismissed a ringtone by saying on his Radio 1 breakfast show: “I don’t want that one, it’s gay.”

The complainant argued that the use of the word gay in this context was homophobic. The governors said, however, that Moyles was simply keeping up with developments in English usage.

The programme complaints committee noted: “The word ‘gay’, in addition to being used to mean ‘homosexual’ or ‘carefree’, was often now used to mean ‘lame’ or ‘rubbish’. This is a widespread current usage of the word amongst young people.”

The committee, which consists of five BBC governors, including the former Royal Ballet dancer Deborah Bull, was “familiar with hearing this word in this context”.

Given Moyles’s target audience of young listeners “it was to be expected that he would use expressions and words which the listeners used themselves”.

The governors believed that, in describing a ringtone as gay, the DJ was conveying that he thought it was “rubbish” rather than “homosexual”. Moyles was not being homophobic, they said.

The panel acknowledged, however, that this use of the word “gay” in a derogatory sense could cause offence to some listeners and counselled caution on its use. Radio 1 was, however, correct to cancel future interviews with the American rap star Jayceon Taylor — known as The Game — after he called gay men “faggots” during a live interview. The presenter Jo Whiley showed “courage and presence of mind” by making an instant full apology, the panel ruled.

The governors also cleared The Catherine Tate Show over a complaint that an effeminate character in the sketch show was offensive. The humour derives from Derek Faye’s outraged reaction at the widespread assumption that he is gay. The complainant took offence that the viewers were invited to laugh at the character’s obvious gayness.

The committee said that the series was dominated by extreme, ridiculous characters who were “not meant to be taken literally or too seriously”. The BBC Two audience would not have found the sketches offensive.

However, BBC commentators should have apologised promptly to viewers after an outburst of swearing from Tim Henman during a Wimbledon match at teatime against the Russian Dmitry Tursunov.

The committee noted that, of four possible instances of offensive language during the match, two were impossible to decipher and may not have been swear words; one was a clear use of the “f” word, and the other a use of the word “arse”.

Given Henman’s previous good character, the committee agreed that there had been no reason to suppose beforehand that the British tennis player would have used any offensive language during a live broadcast.

A complainant had accused the BBC of a “serious disregard for broadcasting rules and regulations”, but the corporation’s committee said that viewers would not want pre-watershed sport to be subject to a time delay, despite the occasional risk of foul language.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2212170,00.html

[toddytodd]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: The BBC has just ruled that word “gay” being used in a deragetory way is ok because it only means “rubbish”. I am no expert on the issue, but isn't it offensive? Surely, they should realize that gay being used this way is offensive towards gay people.

Quote: Gay means rubbish, says BBC
By Adam Sherwin, Media Correspondent
THE word “gay” now means “rubbish” in modern playground-speak and need not be offensive to homosexuals, the BBC Board of Governors has ruled.

A listener complained after Chris Moyles dismissed a ringtone by saying on his Radio 1 breakfast show: “I don’t want that one, it’s gay.”

The complainant argued that the use of the word gay in this context was homophobic. The governors said, however, that Moyles was simply keeping up with developments in English usage.

The programme complaints committee noted: “The word ‘gay’, in addition to being used to mean ‘homosexual’ or ‘carefree’, was often now used to mean ‘lame’ or ‘rubbish’. This is a widespread current usage of the word amongst young people.”

The committee, which consists of five BBC governors, including the former Royal Ballet dancer Deborah Bull, was “familiar with hearing this word in this context”.

Given Moyles’s target audience of young listeners “it was to be expected that he would use expressions and words which the listeners used themselves”.

The governors believed that, in describing a ringtone as gay, the DJ was conveying that he thought it was “rubbish” rather than “homosexual”. Moyles was not being homophobic, they said.

The panel acknowledged, however, that this use of the word “gay” in a derogatory sense could cause offence to some listeners and counselled caution on its use. Radio 1 was, however, correct to cancel future interviews with the American rap star Jayceon Taylor — known as The Game — after he called gay men “faggots” during a live interview. The presenter Jo Whiley showed “courage and presence of mind” by making an instant full apology, the panel ruled.

The governors also cleared The Catherine Tate Show over a complaint that an effeminate character in the sketch show was offensive. The humour derives from Derek Faye’s outraged reaction at the widespread assumption that he is gay. The complainant took offence that the viewers were invited to laugh at the character’s obvious gayness.

The committee said that the series was dominated by extreme, ridiculous characters who were “not meant to be taken literally or too seriously”. The BBC Two audience would not have found the sketches offensive.

However, BBC commentators should have apologised promptly to viewers after an outburst of swearing from Tim Henman during a Wimbledon match at teatime against the Russian Dmitry Tursunov.

The committee noted that, of four possible instances of offensive language during the match, two were impossible to decipher and may not have been swear words; one was a clear use of the “f” word, and the other a use of the word “arse”.

Given Henman’s previous good character, the committee agreed that there had been no reason to suppose beforehand that the British tennis player would have used any offensive language during a live broadcast.

A complainant had accused the BBC of a “serious disregard for broadcasting rules and regulations”, but the corporation’s committee said that viewers would not want pre-watershed sport to be subject to a time delay, despite the occasional risk of foul language.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2212170,00.html

I have been called much worse than 'gay'. Actually, didn't the word 'gay' mean something before it described homosexuals?

[Demonic Spoon]

...

Yeah, it did. It ment "happy". So, Toonarmy, with your logic, we could say that calling homosexuals 'gay' was offensive to happy people.

[Valdimar]

I use the word gay all the time.

"I got a ticket this morning. How gay is that??"
"Don't be gay. Let your daughter wear that toolbelt if she wants!"
"That bar is called Tinkerbell. That is the gayest thing I have ever heard!"

It's mainly pejorative vocabulary that I use in the proximity of close friends and/or other gay people that can TAKE A JOKE! Lighten up. :-P

[StrangerWitCandy]

While I don't freak out when people use the word "gay" as a word to describe something negatively, I do think that meaning is rooted in homophobia. I mean how can they claim that gay means "rubbish" and not see something completely wrong with that definition. The definition of gay meaning "happy" is different because it both preceeded the definition meaning homosexual and it is actually a positive word. Imagine if people insulted something or spoke negatively about something by calling it "black" or "spanish". There would be immense outrage. Again, I don't think its worth my time or energy to get worked up about the use of "gay" as an insult or as "rubbish," but at the same time I can see and acknowledge the double standard it carries and its clear and obvious roots in homophobic culture.

[CCJ]

Personally, I view using the word "gay" as both offensive and boring. I prefer to use "that's so fascist" or "don't be so Nazi". This way, when people go "OMGZ LIEK THATS MEEN TO J00SE" I can say, "See this hair? See this nose? Yeah, I'm Jewish. So STFU, noob."

But back on topic. I'm inclined to agree with the strangerwithcandy. If someone were to say, "That's so Jewish" what would your reaction be? Or if someone said "that's so Black?" It's the same thing. It's all rooted in at least some degree of prejudice, regardless of what people might say.

[Valdimar]

It all comes down to intent of use. One of my greatest friends is Jewish. According to him, he clips 'jew-pons' (coupons) and always comments on being Jewish (cheap) when it comes to shopping. Now, I will admit right here that I use those terms directed at him in the way he uses them toward himself. Only to him though because we both know I don't mean any malicious intent and that we are childishly exploiting stereotypes in the light of.. lightening up and laughing at ourselves. I'm of strong German heritage. One can only imagine they plays on words we have there..... but again, it's mainly only in private and never advocated publicly because in all places (great ol' PC San Francisco) you don't want to piss off the wrong person.

[Sage Orator]

I think that it's more of how you use it. If you use it in terms of calling something lame or stupid then it's perfectly fine. There's much worse anyway.

[John Galt]

Demonic Spoon wrote: ...

Yeah, it did. It ment "happy". So, Toonarmy, with your logic, we could say that calling homosexuals 'gay' was offensive to happy people.

Well happy people could collectivley be offended that a perfectly good word was stolen. Now, some other chaps are stealing it for another use. I typically use it as a colloquialism for "stupid" or I suppose "rubbish."

If "homophobe" can mean something other than "same fear" than "gay" can mean stupid. Being sensitive to other people's sensitivities to a point where you have to constantly be worried that you may hurt someone's feelings since no one has any skin any more is, well, insert the "stupid" colloquialism here.

[StrangerWitCandy]

John Galt wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: ...

Yeah, it did. It ment "happy". So, Toonarmy, with your logic, we could say that calling homosexuals 'gay' was offensive to happy people.

Well happy people could collectivley be offended that a perfectly good word was stolen. Now, some other chaps are stealing it for another use. I typically use it as a colloquialism for "stupid" or I suppose "rubbish."

If "homophobe" can mean something other than "same fear" than "gay" can mean stupid. Being sensitive to other people's sensitivities to a point where you have to constantly be worried that you may hurt someone's feelings since no one has any skin any more is, well, insert the "stupid" colloquialism here.

Again this is something I don't really care about or lose sleep over, nor do I get 'sensitive' about, but I can simply acknowledge the definition's root in prejudiced culture. The reason the definition means "rubbish" is because of society's perception of homosexuals. Like I stated earlier, it is no different than insulting something or calling something "rubbish" by saying "thats so black" or "thats so spanish." Its commonly used in today's culture so most who say it with this definition do not mean it viciously. But I do believe its use as a generic insult clearly stems from a prejudiced society. I'm not telling anyone to stop using it, I'm just acknowledging that its kind of messed up how the definition came to be. For example, if "republican" gained a definition meaning "stupid" or "rubbish", I think a lot of republicans would take offense to that because its clearly an indication of society's perception of them.

[Æ]

Valdimar wrote: I use the word gay all the time.

"I got a ticket this morning. How gay is that??"
"Don't be gay. Let your daughter wear that toolbelt if she wants!"
"That bar is called Tinkerbell. That is the gayest thing I have ever heard!"

It's mainly pejorative vocabulary that I use in the proximity of close friends and/or other gay people that can TAKE A JOKE! Lighten up. :-P
[PC]
That's actually not very funny, Valdimar. Try replacing 'gay' with words describing other demographics; it just plain sounds ret...stupid.
[/PC]

[StrangerWitCandy]

aLienaTeD wrote: Valdimar wrote: I use the word gay all the time.

"I got a ticket this morning. How gay is that??"
"Don't be gay. Let your daughter wear that toolbelt if she wants!"
"That bar is called Tinkerbell. That is the gayest thing I have ever heard!"

It's mainly pejorative vocabulary that I use in the proximity of close friends and/or other gay people that can TAKE A JOKE! Lighten up. :-P
[PC]
That's actually not very funny, Valdimar. Try replacing 'gay' with words describing other demographics; it just plain sounds ret...stupid.
[/PC]

And why do people call things they don't like "retarded"? Because retarded people are mentally disabled with a significantly lower brain capacity than everyone else. The definition of "retarded" as an insult comes from the perception of retards as being below everyone else, because in terms of ability they are. The definition of retarded meaning a mentally challenged person is the direct cause of its subsequent definition meaning "inferior" or "stupid". So the use of "gay" as an insult also stems from a negative perception, although in this case the perceived inferiority is not medical or scientific, it is simply social. While I myself have used both "gay" and "retarded" before, I can acknowledge that both definitions as insults came from perceptions of their previous definitions. But I try as much as I can not to use these words as insults because you feel pretty bad once you call something "retarded" and find out the guy you're talking to has a retarded kid. As much as these words are used with harmless intent, the root of their use is not harmless at all. Call it PC or whatever, but I think its simply mature to see these words for what they actually are. And if one truly finds calling something "gay" or "retarded" funny, they must be a pretty easily amused person.

[John Galt]

StrangerWitCandy wrote: John Galt wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: ...

Yeah, it did. It ment "happy". So, Toonarmy, with your logic, we could say that calling homosexuals 'gay' was offensive to happy people.

Well happy people could collectivley be offended that a perfectly good word was stolen. Now, some other chaps are stealing it for another use. I typically use it as a colloquialism for "stupid" or I suppose "rubbish."

If "homophobe" can mean something other than "same fear" than "gay" can mean stupid. Being sensitive to other people's sensitivities to a point where you have to constantly be worried that you may hurt someone's feelings since no one has any skin any more is, well, insert the "stupid" colloquialism here.

Again this is something I don't really care about or lose sleep over, nor do I get 'sensitive' about, but I can simply acknowledge the definition's root in prejudiced culture. The reason the definition means "rubbish" is because of society's perception of homosexuals. Like I stated earlier, it is no different than insulting something or calling something "rubbish" by saying "thats so black" or "thats so spanish." Its commonly used in today's culture so most who say it with this definition do not mean it viciously. But I do believe its use as a generic insult clearly stems from a prejudiced society. I'm not telling anyone to stop using it, I'm just acknowledging that its kind of messed up how the definition came to be. For example, if "republican" gained a definition meaning "stupid" or "rubbish", I think a lot of republicans would take offense to that because its clearly an indication of society's perception of them.

My mother once told me "gyped" was racist in origin. I agreed and said the gypsies were a race of thieves. A pickpocketing race, gypsys originated in eastern europe and spread across the world, gyping people left and right.

Before you say I am racist, "gypsies" are nomatic people who tend to be entertainers in one way or another as well as people who will rip you off and steal from you. I equate them with hobos riding the rails, only more inclidned to crime. I understand there are Roma gypsies who actually are an "ethnicity" but the gypsies have spead out so much and the word has taken on the meaning of just being about nomatic theives that I think everyone uses the term gyped with out thinking about those poor gypsies from little egypt. Which was, btw, my point.

[StrangerWitCandy]

John Galt wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: John Galt wrote: Demonic Spoon wrote: ...

Yeah, it did. It ment "happy". So, Toonarmy, with your logic, we could say that calling homosexuals 'gay' was offensive to happy people.

Well happy people could collectivley be offended that a perfectly good word was stolen. Now, some other chaps are stealing it for another use. I typically use it as a colloquialism for "stupid" or I suppose "rubbish."

If "homophobe" can mean something other than "same fear" than "gay" can mean stupid. Being sensitive to other people's sensitivities to a point where you have to constantly be worried that you may hurt someone's feelings since no one has any skin any more is, well, insert the "stupid" colloquialism here.

Again this is something I don't really care about or lose sleep over, nor do I get 'sensitive' about, but I can simply acknowledge the definition's root in prejudiced culture. The reason the definition means "rubbish" is because of society's perception of homosexuals. Like I stated earlier, it is no different than insulting something or calling something "rubbish" by saying "thats so black" or "thats so spanish." Its commonly used in today's culture so most who say it with this definition do not mean it viciously. But I do believe its use as a generic insult clearly stems from a prejudiced society. I'm not telling anyone to stop using it, I'm just acknowledging that its kind of messed up how the definition came to be. For example, if "republican" gained a definition meaning "stupid" or "rubbish", I think a lot of republicans would take offense to that because its clearly an indication of society's perception of them.

My mother once told me "gyped" was racist in origin. I agreed and said the gypsies were a race of thieves. A pickpocketing race, gypsys originated in eastern europe and spread across the world, gyping people left and right.

Correct, so "gyped" came from that negative perception of the gypsies just as the use of "gay" as an insult comes from society's negative perception of homosexuals.

[John Galt]

See my edited post above.

Also, I don't think anyone thinks that as a whole gays are "stupid." I do think society for a long time has felt gypsys gyped people, even before being a gypsy became more of a "profession" (if I can so loosely use the word) than an ethnicity. So the negative sterotype was reinforced by the fact gypsys gyped people, but gay people are not "on the whole" stupid nor are they portrayed that way. Yet gay means "stpud" or "rubbish." My point here is what negative stereotype is it reinforcing? Where did the expression come from? No one claims gays are stupid on the whole. Perhaps "that is gay" means more of "that is not what I would like." Makes about as much sense as homophobe being a word, but at least it does not feign an archaic origin and therefore piss me off to no end.

[Tepic]

StrangerWitCandy wrote: And if one truly finds calling something "gay" or "retarded" funny, they must be a pretty easily amused person.
Don't insult easily amused people! Just because their feelings are shallow doesn't mean they don't have feelings...

The BBC is just so British :roll: and by 'British' I mean the colloquial meaning ...

[StrangerWitCandy]

John Galt wrote: See my edited post above.

Also, I don't think anyone thinks that as a whole gays are "stupid." I do think society for a long time has felt gypsys gyped people, even before being a gypsy became more of a "profession" (if I can so loosely use the word) than an ethnicity. So the negative sterotype was reinforced by the fact gypsys gyped people, but gay people are not "on the whole" stupid nor are they portrayed that way. Yet gay means "stpud" or "rubbish." My point here is what negative stereotype is it reinforcing? Where did the expression come from? No one claims gays are stupid on the whole. Perhaps "that is gay" means more of "that is not what I would like." Makes about as much sense as homophobe being a word, but at least it does not feign an archaic origin and therefore piss me off to no end.

Yes gays are/have been seen by society as inferior. Hence the definition of "gay" as an insult or calling something "stupid". Thats the stereotype that is being reinforced, society's perception of gays as inferior. And let me again make it clear that I am not offended here, I'm simply trying to look at this honestly and objectively. I'm not pointing fingers and calling you racist. I don't think you are. But I think its clear to me (and apparently you) that these definitions do indeed stem from negative perceptions of the people these words are supposed to represent.

[StrangerWitCandy]

Tepic wrote: StrangerWitCandy wrote: And if one truly finds calling something "gay" or "retarded" funny, they must be a pretty easily amused person.
Don't insult easily amused people! Just because their feelings are shallow doesn't mean they don't have feelings...

The BBC is just so British :roll: and by 'British' I mean the colloquial meaning ...

:lol: Okay I was amused by that :wink:

[Kt]

It's annoying, stop it...

[Enoch]

Whether or not people intend "gay" to sound insulting when used as a term for "stupid" or "lame," it really is insulting for a lot of gay people. Imagine being a young gay teenager, still struggling with your sexuality. Every day you hear people say "Damn, that is so gay" with a negative connotation. After a while it is going to give you the impression, accurate or not, that being gay is a negative thing.

Just try saying "Damn, that is so Mexican" and see how far you get before everyone jumps down your throat as a racist.