Political Crossfire Forums

[AllAmericanMan]

I dont know much about the morning after pill. If it inhibits growth after conception id be against it, if it prevents conception id be for it. I know conception takes about 24 hours.

[steen]

straw man wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: Impressive as well the constant insistence of claiming the posit of the pro-choice arguments are arbitrary, when the anti-choicers always fail to admit the assignment of the term "a life" to conception is as arbitrary of a decision as assigning it to any other point in the continuum as well. I'll admit no matter where you assign it it's arbitrary. That's kind of the whole point. I mean there are crusaders against the morning after pill and that's nuts. Heck there's religious nut jobs demanding we have all 40 000 or so frozen embryos thawed and implanted at once, and it seems to get a little out of hand at this point. You mean that some pro-lifers are a wee tad extreme? Glad we agree.

[straw man]

steen wrote: straw man wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: Impressive as well the constant insistence of claiming the posit of the pro-choice arguments are arbitrary, when the anti-choicers always fail to admit the assignment of the term "a life" to conception is as arbitrary of a decision as assigning it to any other point in the continuum as well. I'll admit no matter where you assign it it's arbitrary. That's kind of the whole point. I mean there are crusaders against the morning after pill and that's nuts. Heck there's religious nut jobs demanding we have all 40 000 or so frozen embryos thawed and implanted at once, and it seems to get a little out of hand at this point. You mean that some pro-lifers are a wee tad extreme? Glad we agree.

Yes. There's extremism everywhere. In fact the pro choice extremism also is pretty bad.

[Enoch]

straw man wrote: steen wrote: straw man wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: Impressive as well the constant insistence of claiming the posit of the pro-choice arguments are arbitrary, when the anti-choicers always fail to admit the assignment of the term "a life" to conception is as arbitrary of a decision as assigning it to any other point in the continuum as well. I'll admit no matter where you assign it it's arbitrary. That's kind of the whole point. I mean there are crusaders against the morning after pill and that's nuts. Heck there's religious nut jobs demanding we have all 40 000 or so frozen embryos thawed and implanted at once, and it seems to get a little out of hand at this point. You mean that some pro-lifers are a wee tad extreme? Glad we agree.

Yes. There's extremism everywhere. In fact the pro choice extremism also is pretty bad.
I am unaware of pro-choice extremists. I am aware of pro-life extremists who bomb abortion clinincs and advocate killing doctors though.

[straw man]

There are pro choice extremists. For example people who insist that it is the intrinsic right of the mother to cruelly murder a 9 month old baby with a partial birth abortion. I'd say that's pretty extreme.

[Enoch]

straw man wrote: There are pro choice extremists. For example people who insist that it is the intrinsic right of the mother to cruelly murder a 9 month old baby with a partial birth abortion. I'd say that's pretty extreme. Well, a 9 month old baby would be one that was born 9 months ago. Check your terminology, since you seem to be the one insistent that it all be used correctly.

But, I would agree that pushing for the legalization of partial-birth abortion is rather extreme.

[steen]

straw man wrote: There are pro choice extremists. For example people who insist that it is the intrinsic right of the mother to cruelly murder a 9 month old baby with a partial birth abortion. I'd say that's pretty extreme. For one, it is a fetus, not a baby. remember your blabbering lies up above about how you object to revisionist linguistics. How hypocritical of you to do so here.

Secondly, the D&X procedure is not done at 9 months, your incessant lies none withstanding. As such, nobody are insisting on a right to do it then, and as such, there are no pro-choice extremists. You are again blabbering your ignorant nonsense and deceptive claptrap

[straw man]

steen wrote: For one, it is a fetus, not a baby. remember your blabbering lies up above about how you object to revisionist linguistics. How hypocritical of you to do so here.

For one, upon your inability for you to refute the proof that shows that a fetus is a baby, you continuously just insist to repeat your lie. Okay sure, NOW I'll just take your word for it.

:roll:

go ahead and repeat that the Earth is not a planet and that a car is not a vehicle till the cows come home, and I'm sure if you can get enough people to just say it then maybe you'll get the all those dictionary definitions overturned to suit your own skewed denial of reality.

steen wrote: Secondly, the D&X procedure is not done at 9 months, your incessant lies none withstanding.

As usual, this lie is YOURS.

Although the majority of these procedures are performed before then, they are still permitted by law within the USA (unless a state outlaws it) and the procedure is still legally performed in the ninth month within the united states.

Here's an example of one of the MANY places you can get one:

http://www.drtiller.com/

From the informed consent: "The methods of abortion available at Women's Health Care Services are.... 4. Dilatation and Extraction - 15 weeks or more from last menstrual period..."

steen wrote: As such, nobody are insisting on a right to do it then, and as such, there are no pro-choice extremists. You are again blabbering your ignorant nonsense and deceptive claptrap :roll: :roll:

So I suppose all those groups and initiatives and judges who insisted on not allowing Bush's partial birth abortion bill to be law don't REALLY exist. No, in THIS universe the bill passed with unanomous approval and is currently the law today because NOBODY ever fights for the right to have a late term partial birth abortion...

:roll:

"NEW YORK, Aug. 26 -- A federal judge declared the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional Thursday in the second such ruling in three months, though he called the procedure "gruesome, brutal, barbaric and uncivilized." "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35613-2004Aug26.html


Get your facts straight already steen.

[straw man]

UrielsFyre wrote: Check your terminology, since you seem to be the one insistent that it all be used correctly.

:roll:

You must have missed all of the several times I posted as of now unrefuted proof which clearly substantiates my usage.

Again, just keep SAYING over and over again that a fetus is not a "baby" (or is not a very young child)... That will make it true. While you're at it why don't you insist that a senior citizen is not a "geezer"....

[Enoch]

straw man wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: Check your terminology, since you seem to be the one insistent that it all be used correctly.

:roll:

You must have missed all of the several times I posted as of now unrefuted proof which clearly substantiates my usage.

Again, just keep SAYING over and over again that a fetus is not a "baby" (or is not a very young child)... That will make it true. While you're at it why don't you insist that a senior citizen is not a "geezer"....
You have no idea what constitutes proof, do you? Proof requires evidence, support, and testing. All you have offered is your opinions.

Also, I am not arguing with your use of the term "baby" to describe the unborn child. We know what we are talking about, so call it a baby, fetus, unborn, whatever. I am pointing out your hypocrisy when you rail against "incorrect" terminology and then use the phrase "9 month old baby" to refer to a child who has not yet been born. The phrase "9 months old" indicates someone who was born 9 months prior to that point. Remeber, age is measured from the moment of birth, not conception in our society. You were simply using an emotional appeal with that phrasing in order to disguise the fact that you really were not presenting an argument other than that you were against partial-birth abortion.

[steen]

straw man wrote: steen wrote: For one, it is a fetus, not a baby. remember your blabbering lies up above about how you object to revisionist linguistics. How hypocritical of you to do so here. For one, upon your inability for you to refute the proof that shows that a fetus is a baby, you continuously just insist to repeat your lie. As you have such a love for dictionaries:
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fetus
Main Entry: fe·tus
Pronunciation: 'fE-t&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, act of bearing young, offspring; akin to Latin fetus newly delivered, fruitful -- more at FEMININE
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually three months after conception to birth

Hmm, not one word about "baby." As usual, you are lying.

Quote: go ahead and repeat that the Earth is not a planet and that a car is not a vehicle Why would I do that? What odd and delusional claims of utter irrelevance. :roll:

steen wrote: Secondly, the D&X procedure is not done at 9 months, your incessant lies none withstanding. As usual, this lie is YOURS.

Although the majority of these procedures are performed before then, they are still permitted by law within the USA (unless a state outlaws it) and the procedure is still legally performed in the ninth month within the united states. [/quote]You are an ignorant fool. The D&X procedure is a 2nd-trimester procedure. The law is irrelevant to this procedure not being done in 3rd trimester. What an ignorant buffoon you are in your dishonesty. Now, your stinking lie was that pro-choice insists on the woman being able to do the D&X (or, as you so lamely mislabeled it, "partial birth abortion") up to term. Pro-choice is not doing this. NOBODY are doing this. YOU ARE A STINKING LIAR.

Quote: Here's an example of one of the MANY places you can get one:

http://www.drtiller.com/

From the informed consent: "The methods of abortion available at Women's Health Care Services are.... 4. Dilatation and Extraction - 15 weeks or more from last menstrual period..." Ah, please show where Dr. Tiller does this procedure at term? please show where anybody insists that this procedure should be done up until term. No? You LIE. You ALWAYS lie.

Quote: [quote="steen"]As such, nobody are insisting on a right to do it then, and as such, there are no pro-choice extremists. You are again blabbering your ignorant nonsense and deceptive claptrap/quote] :roll: :roll: Yup. No responsibility for your lies. Cowardly lack of integrity.

Quote: So I suppose all those groups and initiatives and judges who insisted on not allowing Bush's partial birth abortion bill to be law don't REALLY exist. That was not the issue. The issue is that YOU claimed that there was a push for being able to do the D&X at 9 months. That was a lie. All your cowardly squirming away from admitting that you were wrong is just further showing what a liar you are, how dishonest you are.

Quote: No, in THIS universe the bill passed with unanomous approval and is currently the law today because NOBODY ever fights for the right to have a late term partial birth abortion... See, there you go again, making up lies. Lie after lie, after lie. It is always lies with you,. Endlessly, never ceasing. Anything you can lie about for the sake of your hate mongering agenda of oppressing women becomes the next lie for your cause. Every argument you make is based on lies.

Quote: "NEW YORK, Aug. 26 -- A federal judge declared the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional Thursday in the second such ruling in three months, though he called the procedure "gruesome, brutal, barbaric and uncivilized." " And not one word about performing it at 9 months. What a stinking coward liar you are.

Quote: Get your facts straight already steen. My facts are straight. There is no push for the D&X procedure at 9 months. You lied. That is the fact. That you are to much of a yellow coward to stand by your own words, well that's just what is to be expected by a lying pro-lifer like you.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

Quote: You are an ignorant fool.

Quote: What an ignorant buffoon you are


Quote: YOU ARE A STINKING LIAR.


Quote: What a stinking coward liar you are.
Quote: Are you really that dumb?
Quote: It is not my fault that pro-lifers are so incredibly ignorant
Quote: How lame and inanely stupid of you.

Do you realize how silly this is? What a big bad internet tough guy you are.... Anyway, thats not the point, but maybe you could tone down the name calling. You know, calling people stupid, dumb, ignorant, etc. People you dont even know........anyways...

His claim was that there are extremes on both sides. You said that there were no pro-choice extremes, only pro-life.

You wrote, and I quote....."As such, nobody are insisting on a right to do it then, and as such, there are no pro-choice extremists. You are again blabbering your ignorant nonsense and deceptive claptrap"

He provided evidence....and I quote "NEW YORK, Aug. 26 -- A federal judge declared the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional Thursday in the second such ruling in three months, though he called the procedure "gruesome, brutal, barbaric and uncivilized"

The partial birth abortion ban would have taken away the RIGHT to a partial birth abortion. In declaring it un-constitutional, the judge insists that there is a right to a partial birth abortion. He provided you with this to show your statement...and I quote "nobody are insisting on a right to do it then,..." false. The Judge clearly insisted that there is a right to do it then.....You then come back with...."And not one word about performing it at 9 months. What a stinking coward liar you are.".......

I could use this opportunity to call you a stupid, ignorant, cowardly liar, but I shall refrain, ive graduated the 8th grade.

[steen]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Do you realize how silly this is? Strawman lies a lot, so I comment on it a lot. Perhaps, if you could persuade strawman to not lie so much, things would be much better around here.

... Nah, this is not an attempt by you to not have the incessant, never ending pro-life lies challenged, is it? Are you saying that when strawman spews flagrant lies, he shouldn't be challenged on them?

And are you saying that strawman spewing all those lies is not ridiculous?

Sweep before your own door.

Quote: Anyway, thats not the point, but maybe you could tone down the name calling. If the lies are toned down, I will be happy to tone down my critique of them. Funny how you are not calling for a cessation of the pro-life lies. Why is that? Is that because you are a hypocrite, or because you see strawman as to friggin stupid to post without lying?

Quote: You know, calling people stupid, dumb, ignorant, etc. People you dont even know........ If the shoe fits. All I know about strawman is his posts. he might be a fine, upstanding guy elsewhere, but here, all I know about strawman is that he lies a lot, time after time. So I challenge him on his never-ending lies. If he want to talk to me about the issues, then he cannot lie to me. It is that simple. Debate and disagreement, yes. Lies, absolutely not. It is that simple. The more pro-life lies are spewed, the more I challenge them.

Quote: His claim was that there are extremes on both sides. You said that there were no pro-choice extremes, only pro-life. Did I? Where?

Quote: You wrote, and I quote....."As such, nobody are insisting on a right to do it then, and as such, there are no pro-choice extremists. You are again blabbering your ignorant nonsense and deceptive claptrap"

He provided evidence....and I quote "NEW YORK, Aug. 26 -- A federal judge declared the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional Thursday in the second such ruling in three months, though he called the procedure "gruesome, brutal, barbaric and uncivilized" Actually, strawman's lying claim was this:

....For example people who insist that it is the intrinsic right of the mother to cruelly murder a 9 month old baby with a partial birth abortion. ....

Now, in the "evidence" strawman provided, was there anything about insisting on the right to a D&X at 9 months? Nope. So there was no evidence. Rather, strawman lied. It is that simple. Strawman lies and I challenge his lies. Care to defend any other of his lies?

Quote: The partial birth abortion ban would have taken away the RIGHT to a partial birth abortion. In declaring it un-constitutional, the judge insists that there is a right to a partial birth abortion. Not at 9 months, when the D&X procedure is not even done. So no, there was no "people who insist that it is the intrinsic right ..." for a D&X at "9 months."

Quote: He provided you with this to show your statement...and I quote "nobody are insisting on a right to do it then,..." false. But his "evidence" didn't prove anything. there was nothing about doing the D&X at 9 months. strawman lied outright.

Quote: The Judge clearly insisted that there is a right to do it then..... Not at 9 months, when it is not even done (given that the D&X procedure is a 2nd-trimester procedure).

Quote: You then come back with...."And not one word about performing it at 9 months. What a stinking coward liar you are."....... And that is indeed true. Not a word about 9 months, strawman is a stinking coward liar. So?

Quote: I could use this opportunity to call you a stupid, ignorant, cowardly liar, because of what? Where did I lie? Where did I not stand by what I said?

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: strawman is a stinking coward liar No matter what opinions people espouse here as fact you have NO right to personally attack them and call them liars or cowards. Believing something to be true isnt lying, and it isnt cowardly anyways. You have absolutely zero way of proving someone is saying something here they dont believe to be true, absolutely no way. Not that that even matters, you should be able to carry on a debate without assuming everyone you disagree with is lying and a coward. Every time you call someone a liar, anyone whos reading you with an open mind says your a flipping ****.

[AllAmericanMan]

Ive made a fair attempt at debating you Steen. Ive even asked you before to stop the personal attacks. I have completely lost my patience with you, and I look forward to lowering my level of debate to meet yours. Every time you come with a personal attack, ill come back at you with 20 more.

[AllAmericanMan]

To put it another way, the gloves are off. What you call emotional distortion I will call fact.

I can already hear the "if its so wrong why are you doing it?" Answer: he started it, it makes me feel better. Childish? Absolutely, so is he. If the debate is gunna go nowhere im gunna have some fun while we wait.

[Thrilla]

due to peronal attacks and trollish behavior.. this thread is locked