Political Crossfire Forums

issaiah1332 · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 465 Location: Wv

Hyde wrote: toddytodd wrote: issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: For time Travel to occur backwards that would mean that in fact time is just a re-run would it not? Thats what I've always thought is the fundament flaw in time travel backwards and sorta forwards. And would you be a copy of yourself or your legitamate self, because in essence if you are rewinding time would you also rewind what you had done or what had occured prior to the time you came from?

Well, (I do think time travel is possible) for time travel to work at all parallel universes must be incorporated into the equation. Therefore there could be infinite amounts of you and therefore time travel in the past is merely a odyssey into another dimension.

Maybe that is how or why some people get dejavoux (<-sp?). I get it all the time. Some times, it is so detailed, that I can tell you what will happen in the next 20-30 seconds.

this is no lie, i get dreams, just short like 30-40 second "clips" of things that will happen in the next day or two. its really weird.

Maybe dreams are just short regainings of consciousness in your parallel mind, and the feeling of dejavoux is the real memory of doing something in th form of your parallel self. This could also tie in with jungian theory, archetypes are things inherited from your parallel self, and the collective unconsciousness is you connection with your parallel selves.

Wow that was far-fetched! LOL!!!

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

I don't think God operates in time as we know it to be.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: For time Travel to occur backwards that would mean that in fact time is just a re-run would it not? Thats what I've always thought is the fundament flaw in time travel backwards and sorta forwards. And would you be a copy of yourself or your legitamate self, because in essence if you are rewinding time would you also rewind what you had done or what had occured prior to the time you came from?

Well, (I do think time travel is possible) for time travel to work at all parallel universes must be incorporated into the equation. Therefore there could be infinite amounts of you and therefore time travel in the past is merely a odyssey into another dimension. I think this holds as much water as lets say Mans dream to know whats going on in a womans head. Sounds like it could happen but it never will...

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

issaiah1332 wrote: Hyde wrote: toddytodd wrote: issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: For time Travel to occur backwards that would mean that in fact time is just a re-run would it not? Thats what I've always thought is the fundament flaw in time travel backwards and sorta forwards. And would you be a copy of yourself or your legitamate self, because in essence if you are rewinding time would you also rewind what you had done or what had occured prior to the time you came from?

Well, (I do think time travel is possible) for time travel to work at all parallel universes must be incorporated into the equation. Therefore there could be infinite amounts of you and therefore time travel in the past is merely a odyssey into another dimension.

Maybe that is how or why some people get dejavoux (<-sp?). I get it all the time. Some times, it is so detailed, that I can tell you what will happen in the next 20-30 seconds.

this is no lie, i get dreams, just short like 30-40 second "clips" of things that will happen in the next day or two. its really weird.

Maybe dreams are just short regainings of consciousness in your parallel mind, and the feeling of dejavoux is the real memory of doing something in th form of your parallel self. This could also tie in with jungian theory, archetypes are things inherited from your parallel self, and the collective unconsciousness is you connection with your parallel selves.

Wow that was far-fetched! LOL!!!

What may seem far fetched to us is probably just due to our lack of understanding of the universe and its workings. If it is as infinite as it is said to be, I suppose anything is possible.

issaiah1332 · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 465 Location: Wv

LetsGetReal wrote: issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: For time Travel to occur backwards that would mean that in fact time is just a re-run would it not? Thats what I've always thought is the fundament flaw in time travel backwards and sorta forwards. And would you be a copy of yourself or your legitamate self, because in essence if you are rewinding time would you also rewind what you had done or what had occured prior to the time you came from?

Well, (I do think time travel is possible) for time travel to work at all parallel universes must be incorporated into the equation. Therefore there could be infinite amounts of you and therefore time travel in the past is merely a odyssey into another dimension. I think this holds as much water as lets say Mans dream to know whats going on in a womans head. Sounds like it could happen but it never will...

There is some evidence (what can be considered evidence anyways) such as the entanglement, as well as the mysterious popping up and disappearing of electrons. These electrons could be popping in and out of parallel universes, or even other dimensions. There is also the development of F-theory, which calculates there to be two times, this could be interpreted as a past and a future (simultaneity) both running in the same type of medium, but each operating separately joined together only by the present. But I personally think that F-theory is nothing more than a mathematical convenience.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: issaiah1332 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: For time Travel to occur backwards that would mean that in fact time is just a re-run would it not? Thats what I've always thought is the fundament flaw in time travel backwards and sorta forwards. And would you be a copy of yourself or your legitamate self, because in essence if you are rewinding time would you also rewind what you had done or what had occured prior to the time you came from?

Well, (I do think time travel is possible) for time travel to work at all parallel universes must be incorporated into the equation. Therefore there could be infinite amounts of you and therefore time travel in the past is merely a odyssey into another dimension. I think this holds as much water as lets say Mans dream to know whats going on in a womans head. Sounds like it could happen but it never will...

There is some evidence (what can be considered evidence anyways) such as the entanglement, as well as the mysterious popping up and disappearing of electrons. These electrons could be popping in and out of parallel universes, or even other dimensions. There is also the development of F-theory, which calculates there to be two times, this could be interpreted as a past and a future (simultaneity) both running in the same type of medium, but each operating separately joined together only by the present. But I personally think that F-theory is nothing more than a mathematical convenience. I don't know enough to make a judgment on this. Physics is something I really despise, was never really good at make believe situations. I like Mathematics better which they said is hysterical because if you can do stuff in calculius you can do most stuff in Physics. I just never got the connection and truly don't want to it will ruin Math for me...(bet you'd never see a person who says they like doing Math :lol:)

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2670 Location: The P-Brane

Let me start by saying sorry for rehashing such an old thread. I just did some very interesting reading about quantum physics and time travel that I thought was relevant to this discussion (no matter how old it is). I was reading about how prior notions of light being a particle and a wave were false, and how the photon traveled in more of a cloud of possible locations, and how the possibilities effected behavior. An experiment was performed where one slit was cut into cardboard and the light was allowed to shine through briefly onto a piece of film detailing where the photon hit.
Quote: When the photon can only go through one slit (one possible course), there is only one photon traveling in a line. When there is more than one possibility, the single photon no longer exists; it becomes a wave of imaginary photons traveling along various possible paths. Nevertheless, when the photon eventually lands on the film, there's only one photon. If you only release one photon at a time, you still get the interference pattern, even though there's no possibility of more than one photon on the path at the same time. Where this becomes tied into time travel is when one looks at the observance factor which is that the results will vary if you are measuring or not.
Quote: If you run the double-slit experiment explained above, but put a detector on each slit to determine for certain which slit the photon went through, the interference pattern disappears and you get the clumps of photons you would expect. In other words, the act of simply knowing which slit the photon went through changes the outcome of the experiment. Therefore, in principle (but not in currently imaginable practice), a specific state of mental knowledge could theoretically cause a change in physical states without direct interference.
Not only this, but the results seem to know if they will later be measured. The assertion made was that information could travel through time.
Quote: Time Travel/Seeing The Future: If the double-slit experiment didn't already fry your brain beyond salvage, consider this: If you monkey around with the details of the experiment, you get an even more bizarre result. As stated before, when you take measurements, you change the outcome of the experiment. But when you take measurements AFTER THE FACT, the photon reacts with the same changed outcome. In other words, the photon seems to "know" beforehand whether or not you're going to take the measurement. At the very least, this strongly suggests information can travel backward through time. This is so bafflingly frustrating that some relatively well-educated physicists still simply reject the conclusion, because they think it s*cks.

So information which exists as both material and immaterial (and possibly with similar behavior to photons, in that the possibilities dictate behavior) could feasibly travel through time, at least on an atomic level. If we can become pure information time travel would be possible in theory. I know it seems unlikely that humans beings could exist as pure information, but before recently it would have been impossible to scramble a picture into a transmitable electromagnetic signal we use (used) for television. The only problem is that when traveling back, there would be no device to "descramble" you, thus you could only exist in prior time lines as information. Perhaps this is where psychics and mystics get their information :lol: .

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

wormwood wrote: Let me start by saying sorry for rehashing such an old thread. I just did some very interesting reading about quantum physics and time travel that I thought was relevant to this discussion (no matter how old it is). I was reading about how prior notions of light being a particle and a wave were false, and how the photon traveled in more of a cloud of possible locations, and how the possibilities effected behavior. An experiment was performed where one slit was cut into cardboard and the light was allowed to shine through briefly onto a piece of film detailing where the photon hit.
Quote: When the photon can only go through one slit (one possible course), there is only one photon traveling in a line. When there is more than one possibility, the single photon no longer exists; it becomes a wave of imaginary photons traveling along various possible paths. Nevertheless, when the photon eventually lands on the film, there's only one photon. If you only release one photon at a time, you still get the interference pattern, even though there's no possibility of more than one photon on the path at the same time. Where this becomes tied into time travel is when one looks at the observance factor which is that the results will vary if you are measuring or not.
Quote: If you run the double-slit experiment explained above, but put a detector on each slit to determine for certain which slit the photon went through, the interference pattern disappears and you get the clumps of photons you would expect. In other words, the act of simply knowing which slit the photon went through changes the outcome of the experiment. Therefore, in principle (but not in currently imaginable practice), a specific state of mental knowledge could theoretically cause a change in physical states without direct interference.
Not only this, but the results seem to know if they will later be measured. The assertion made was that information could travel through time.
Quote: Time Travel/Seeing The Future: If the double-slit experiment didn't already fry your brain beyond salvage, consider this: If you monkey around with the details of the experiment, you get an even more bizarre result. As stated before, when you take measurements, you change the outcome of the experiment. But when you take measurements AFTER THE FACT, the photon reacts with the same changed outcome. In other words, the photon seems to "know" beforehand whether or not you're going to take the measurement. At the very least, this strongly suggests information can travel backward through time. This is so bafflingly frustrating that some relatively well-educated physicists still simply reject the conclusion, because they think it s*cks.

So information which exists as both material and immaterial (and possibly with similar behavior to photons, in that the possibilities dictate behavior) could feasibly travel through time, at least on an atomic level. If we can become pure information time travel would be possible in theory. I know it seems unlikely that humans beings could exist as pure information, but before recently it would have been impossible to scramble a picture into a transmitable electromagnetic signal we use (used) for television. The only problem is that when traveling back, there would be no device to "descramble" you, thus you could only exist in prior time lines as information. Perhaps this is where psychics and mystics get their information :lol: .

Very interesting. I saw a show about protons and time travel a few months back. There is some very good potential in this type of scientific study I think

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2670 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Very interesting. I saw a show about protons and time travel a few months back. There is some very good potential in this type of scientific study I think Studying subatomic particles shows that our "laws" of physics aren't really laws at all and things like time travel are completely possible in theory. What if the information never really travels anywhere because time is an illusion? I mean what if what we perceive as time is really just our senses coping with a variance in a wave of the electromagnetic spectrum; adjusting to a slow steady change in the frequency we inhabit. I know that sounds a little far fetched but consider this. A rainbow is nothing more than several different frequencies on the visual electromagnetic spectrum. It doesn't become a bow of colors until your brain makes it look that way so you can interpret a variance in frequency. So is it the rainbow's function to be a pretty bow of colors or is that just the value we ascribe to it because that's how we interpret it? So could the passage of time not be a similar illusion? To me none of these mysteries really contradicts any major religious views, so in the context of this conversational "what if", I would have to say that time travel seems possible in theory, and the effects would be factored into the plan the whole time (because everyone's atoms already knew what was going to happen :lol: ).

issaiah1332 · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 465 Location: Wv

wormwood wrote: Quote: Very interesting. I saw a show about protons and time travel a few months back. There is some very good potential in this type of scientific study I think Studying subatomic particles shows that our "laws" of physics aren't really laws at all and things like time travel are completely possible in theory. What if the information never really travels anywhere because time is an illusion? I mean what if what we perceive as time is really just our senses coping with a variance in a wave of the electromagnetic spectrum; adjusting to a slow steady change in the frequency we inhabit. I know that sounds a little far fetched but consider this. A rainbow is nothing more than several different frequencies on the visual electromagnetic spectrum. It doesn't become a bow of colors until your brain makes it look that way so you can interpret a variance in frequency. So is it the rainbow's function to be a pretty bow of colors or is that just the value we ascribe to it because that's how we interpret it? So could the passage of time not be a similar illusion? To me none of these mysteries really contradicts any major religious views, so in the context of this conversational "what if", I would have to say that time travel seems possible in theory, and the effects would be factored into the plan the whole time (because everyone's atoms already knew what was going to happen :lol: ).

Taht really messes with ones mind!

MKSWEO · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 32

Hey if Michael J fox can do it....Anyone can! :gdgf:

_Locke_ · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 182 Location: Bailey

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Time travel is definetly impossible

they also said that putting a man on the moon was impossible too

Roman · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 180

Some believe that linear time as we know does not exists at God's level, rather past, present, and future are all together in some sort of stillness.

Tracker · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Time Travel and religion

perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible.....

Sure it is. We travel forward in time as we LIVE LIFE. WTF?!

We go back in time in our memories. WTF?!

Lastly, the first quote, "toddytodd," and that last sentence: You think there is a giant, super-duper, ALIEN ENTITY all-powerful puppet-master? WTF?! What happend to the so-called 'FreeWill' MANDATE which is used by Christians to HATE those whom are not submissive to indoctrination? What happened to the favorite Christian-Conservative SOUNDBITE, "You can't have it both ways?" WTF?

Unless your super-duper, all-powerful, puppet-master was BORN ON EARTH, by definition, it's an ALIEN ENTITY. WTF?!

I thought I was having intelligent discussion with REAL PEOPLE --

-- OBVIOUSLY, I'm getting repetative-soundbites from a pre-recorded, pre-programmed, ANSWERING MACHINE. WTF?!

(bang, bang -- pound on invisible phone-lines -- "HELLO! Your software has run AMOK! WTF?!")

Anti-Spearsy · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 67

Time is a man made thing to explain the flow of events, it doesn't truely exist at all.

But a flow of events machine might work.

XD

If you could go back in time and prevent all religions from starting, it would be the best thing for this world, you spare billions of lives, prevent wars and unite the world in a way never seen before.

Organized religion, which teaches to love thine neighbor, have caused to the death of more neighbors then any other cause.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Tracker wrote: perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible.....

Sure it is. We travel forward in time as we LIVE LIFE. WTF?!

We go back in time in our memories. WTF?!

Lastly, the first quote, "toddytodd," and that last sentence: You think there is a giant, super-duper, ALIEN ENTITY all-powerful puppet-master? WTF?! What happend to the so-called 'FreeWill' MANDATE which is used by Christians to HATE those whom are not submissive to indoctrination? What happened to the favorite Christian-Conservative SOUNDBITE, "You can't have it both ways?" WTF?

Unless your super-duper, all-powerful, puppet-master was BORN ON EARTH, by definition, it's an ALIEN ENTITY. WTF?!

I thought I was having intelligent discussion with REAL PEOPLE --

-- OBVIOUSLY, I'm getting repetative-soundbites from a pre-recorded, pre-programmed, ANSWERING MACHINE. WTF?!

(bang, bang -- pound on invisible phone-lines -- "HELLO! Your software has run AMOK! WTF?!")

:lol:

xsuite · Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 688 Location: The Colonies (USA)

Time travel although i believe its impossible, wouldnt cause any trouble. All those paradoxes you hear about completely ignore to rules.
What are the rules? The rules cant ever be fully defined but are easily though of.
My foolproof hypothesis is that if you went back in time, noone would notice you at all, you couldnt interfere, because it would basically be a 3-D movie of what happened back then. Ya know?
Because of the fact that the moment you traveled back in time, the entire past had already happened, the idea that if you do anything that will affect the future, nothing would come of it due to the fact that the present already happened and the past already happened. so yould just be a spectator or if it was possible for you to do anything then the outcome of anything you do would basically already have happened long before you timetraveled and thus have zero affect on the outcome of the future.

Hope that wasnt to difficult to understan, you really have to think...

esight · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 40

toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

From what I have read, Jesus existed BEFORE time. In a way, I found that statement in the Bible fascinating. Science today sees Time as a separate dimension, and might even be an illusion. I'm not saying I'm buying all that stuff, but to read in the Bible that Jesus existed even before Time makes me wonder if the Bible was way ahead.

Tracker · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:59 am Post subject:

Let me see if I have your POV (point-of-view) down:

1) Before there was a clock, time existed.

-- phew! What a 'stretch' :lol: -bear with me:

2) Before there was an Earth, the one commonly referred to as 'Jesus' in THIS language, walked on it.

Since ALL living-breathing-entities are CREATED in WOMBS, when/where was he born?

esight · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 40

Tracker wrote: Let me see if I have your POV (point-of-view) down:

1) Before there was a clock, time existed.

-- phew! What a 'stretch' :lol: -bear with me:

2) Before there was an Earth, the one commonly referred to as 'Jesus' in THIS language, walked on it.

Since ALL living-breathing-entities are CREATED in WOMBS, when/where was he born?

The Bible's chronology refers to a period before Time existed; this was before the world, as we know it, existed. Then the world and Time was created, and this is the duration which we currently reside in and when Jesus was born into this world. The Bible says that there will come a day when the world as we know it, will end. What follows that is called Eternity.