Political Crossfire Forums

[Saf]

The notion of Time with a capital T as a thing that exists outside of human perception is logically nonsensical, as proven by J.M.E. McTaggart in his paper, "The Unreality Of Time." The only possible notion of a time-like logical entity is the C series, which has an order but no direction. Though we experience linear causality and progression of time, this is entirely subjective and due to the human mind.

[wormwood]

Quote: Surely.

Something is either true or it isn't. It is only our perception of truth that is subjective. Truth, itself, is absolute. True, but I meant if it CAN NOT be perceived, no matter what level of perception or consciousness. If the truth can not be recognized as such, perhaps it is the question that is flawed. We experience life as a sequential series of moments, but since time is man made, perhaps reality is just the ebb and flow of different frequencies of energy. On it's most base level, time is a system of counting cycles, but it can also be a systematic decay (carbon dating for example). Basically, there seems to be a duality to time making both sides seem true.

Quote: The notion of Time with a capital T as a thing that exists outside of human perception is logically nonsensical, as proven by J.M.E. McTaggart in his paper, "The Unreality Of Time." This accepts that current notions about energy and matter are completely true, which may be the case, but as you mentioned, the limitations of the human mind make matters more uncertain. The whole universe seems to work as a giant clock in a sense. Matter is in a constant state of decay. On earth, our time is based on the consistency of gravity. I would say, time outside of human consciousness does exist, my problem is the cyclical/ linear nature of time.
For example, say my girlfriend got hit by a car tomorrow, then seven years later time travel was invented. I travel back in time to save her, then seven years go by and time travel is invented, then I DON"T go back and save her because she never got hit, but she never got hit because I went back. If I never go back she will get hit, but if I do go back, there will be no reason for the original me to go back when the time comes. See the problem?

Quote: The only possible notion of a time-like logical entity is the C series, which has an order but no direction. This is crazy business... there is order everywhere, and I am not just talking about sub-quark particles, or chaos based physics. Look at the structure of a cell. There is a mechanism built into your cell structure that tells your body when to get old and die. If that switch didn't flip on we could remain in our primes indefinitely...but it does switch on (except in cancer cells). This cellular order proves the notion of time outside of human realization, but at the same time suggests if we could master DNA we could be impervious to time (physically) and that time may be an illusion from a cellular memory. Basically, everything is confusing and makes a case for both points. My brain hurts 8:)

[cap'n queasy]

Mine's smoking a little, as well.

:lol:

[wormwood]

Quote: Mine's smoking a little, as well.

:lol: :rotf:

[Hyde]

LetsGetReal wrote: perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible..... It's not...

please prove to me that it is impossible rather than stating it as a fact.

[mojo]

Hyde wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible..... It's not...

please prove to me that it is impossible rather than stating it as a fact.

Because it exists outside the realm of our existence that we can manipulate. Can you prove to me that time travel is possible.

[connermt]

Hyde wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible..... It's not...

please prove to me that it is impossible rather than stating it as a fact.

LGR likes to saythings are facts w/o supply any info to support it. It's a bad habit of his I have found. Good luck getting any kind of proof out of 'im for this one!

[topnut]

Time does not exist. Hence time travel is impossible.

past..no such thing future...no such thing

There is only the present. Memories exist, but our brains have to make up a time line so we don't go crazy.

Go outside and watch a car drive by. Your mind will tell you that you are watching the car move, but in reality your mind is manifesting this concept. You are only seeing the NOW, the present. You are not really watching the car move because the past and the future do not exist. It's hard to understand this at first but the more you think about it the easier it gets.

The past and future does not exist, only the present.

Another example is listening to a conversation. You aren't really hearing the words. Because the past and the future do not exist. You are actually just hearing the present and your mind is dealing with it.

It's truly liberating when you understand time does not exist.[/u]

[Hyde]

topnut wrote: Time does not exist. Hence time travel is impossible.

past..no such thing future...no such thing

There is only the present. Memories exist, but our brains have to make up a time line so we don't go crazy.

Go outside and watch a car drive by. Your mind will tell you that you are watching the car move, but in reality your mind is manifesting this concept. You are only seeing the NOW, the present. You are not really watching the car move because the past and the future do not exist. It's hard to understand this at first but the more you think about it the easier it gets.

The past and future does not exist, only the present.

Another example is listening to a conversation. You aren't really hearing the words. Because the past and the future do not exist. You are actually just hearing the present and your mind is dealing with it.

It's truly liberating when you understand time does not exist.[/u]

omfg. are you insane? did you just make that up on the spot or do you really beleive that? you sound like my old philosophy teacher. " am i really sitting on this desk? am i really in this classroom? are you all my imagination and this is all fake?" :lol: i'm serious. he said all that on our first day. i wanted to hightail it out of there.

[SilveryMinnow]

Time is not Constant. The Two Atomic Clocks on either side of the world have a different time from each other. An experiment was conducted once by a scientist who discovered that a plane he was flying in, lost 5 minutes traveling across America.

Im sure if Time travel interfered with Gods plan he would definitely show up.

[Hyde]

SilveryMinnow wrote: Time is not Constant. The Two Atomic Clocks on either side of the world have a different time from each other. An experiment was conducted once by a scientist who discovered that a plane he was flying in, lost 5 minutes traveling across America.

Im sure if Time travel interfered with Gods plan he would definitely show up.

i dont think it was five minutes. and wasnt he flying in a jet going mach9 or something?

[LetsGetReal]

connermt wrote: Hyde wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: perdidochas wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

I don't think time travel is possible..... It's not...

please prove to me that it is impossible rather than stating it as a fact.

LGR likes to saythings are facts w/o supply any info to support it. It's a bad habit of his I have found. Good luck getting any kind of proof out of 'im for this one! How about Einsteins proof that couldn't be done or the fact that effect can't pre-date cause.

[MJB]

toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

Actually, from a religious standpoint, I think time travel is already possible, but not in the way you mean, I'm sure. For example, I would say that a seer, or prophet, seeing past or future events, would be experiencing a form of time travel.

However, I do not think God would allow man to develop technology that would allow him to time travel, if it was even possible, because to see events from the past, or the future, I believe, would only be given at God's discretion, for his purposes, to those he wishes to see them. And no, I don't think that would ever include the ability to go back and change the outcome of events.

[topnut]

MJB wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

Actually, from a religious standpoint, I think time travel is already possible, but not in the way you mean, I'm sure. For example, I would say that a seer, or prophet, seeing past or future events, would be experiencing a form of time travel.

However, I do not think God would allow man to develop technology that would allow him to time travel, if it was even possible, because to see events from the past, or the future, I believe, would only be given at God's discretion, for his purposes, to those he wishes to see them. And no, I don't think that would ever include the ability to go back and change the outcome of events.


FREE WILL BABY....WE CAN TIME TRAVEL IF IT'S POSSIBLE...FREE WILL BABY...END OF CONVERSATION.

[topnut]

Time Does Not Exist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sacrilege; You'll be burned at the stake for saying
such things! Recant now before it's too late.


How can this be you ask?:
I've been running around saying time does not exist for many years. There are a few books out there that do a good job of illustrating this belief, and I thought I'd write a silly little web page about my 'No such thing as time/or motion' belief. I guess you'd have to say it's a belief. It can't be proven or disproved in accordance with scientific theory (or can it), so it's not a theory. Can you 'prove' a negative?

I'm going to try and explain the nonexistence of time (and coincidentally the nonexistence of motion) in simple terms. Sure you can read about quantum physics and chaos theory in a book. But trying to understand it is no simple task. I promise not to make you do any math.

Origins of this 'Theory':
First and foremost, my beliefs on the nonexistence of time began very early. In grade school math class, I did a project for extra credit. I described a four dimensional cube to my class. Not all that difficult; hypercubes have been part of math, physics, and geometry for hundreds, if not thousands of years. After the extra credit project, I began wondering about higher dimensional objects. I started thinking about shadows and lower dimensional objects. As I made my way through high school, I read a few other books about metaphysics. Eventually I formulated a few wild eyed ideas of my own. Nothing I could prove, but something I've been describing to anyone who would listen for many years.

Time simply does not exist. I guess you could call me a materialist. If you can't sense something with your senses does it really exist? Try to describe time, without using time as a reference. We can't see it, can't smell it, can't taste it, etc, etc. Are there any machines that can measure it? A clock? really? What does a clock measure? The movement of its own hands? That's time? What does a clock really measure? Is time defined by the motion of our planet around the sun?

Let's get a little more interesting. If time does exist when was it created? Did it always exist? Did it exist before man came along? Does time really slow down if an object approaches the speed of light? I seriously doubt it. Where does time slow down? Does all time slow down? Just the time around the object moving near the speed of light? I thought time or for that matter the speed of light were supposed to be universal standards. On with some explanations...

Basics:
I'm not all that good at math, so don't expect me to recite formulas, or provide any type of mathematical proof for my hair brained ideas. Others have already tried that. I tried to follow their math, but all it did was give me a head ache. If you want proof, you might want to try a simpler subject.

The basis of my crazy little ideas can best be defined through the basics of quantum mechanics and theoretical physics. Once again, I'm not going to try and provide mathematical proofs or formulas of any sort. If you'd like to see that sort of thing, I suggest you check out a good quantum physics book. These theories about time not existing rest primarily on the belief in the existence of Multidimensional Universes, and the Simultaneous Coexistence of these Multidimensional Universes.

Multidimensional universes:
First off let's start with what we know. You know that you exist, right? O.k. that's good. If you're not willing to admit this, you've got some bigger problems to deal with. Next you must admit that you are a three dimensional person/object. You have height, width, and depth. O.k. were on a roll here. Objects in our immediate plane of existence can be defined as having 3 dimensions. Humans can detect objects that coexist in the same dimension (multidimensional universe) as them. We exist in a universe which is defined by 3 specific dimensions. Let's call them X, Y, and Z. Everything in this universe can be defined through expressions of these 3 dimensions. Are you with me? Good. I'll take it that you believe, and understand what I'm saying.

Let's expand on this a little bit. Solid objects in our universe exist within a 3 dimensional framework. They have varying X, Y, and Z dimensions that define their existence. Can we sense objects that do not have 3 dimensions? Sure we can, we can see 2 dimensional objects. We define 2 dimensional objects as having only 2 of the 3 dimensions that we can sense. So, Humans can detect both 2 and 3 dimensional objects. We can detect objects that are not fully 3 dimensional. We've just begun the journey. We can detect objects that are not fully 3 dimensional; objects within a multidimensional universe which overlaps ours, but we cannot detect objects that exist wholly outside our subset of 3 dimensions.

2 dimensional, and 3 dimensional objects can coexist simultaneously without interfering with each other. If something casts a shadow on a 3 dimensional object the two coexist simultaneously. The shadow occupies the same physical space as the solid object without displacing it (No sidetracking on the other effects at this point). So here we can see that multidimensional objects can coexist simultaneously within the same space. A 2 dimensional object and a 3 dimensional object can occupy the same physical space.

Time to expand on that simple fact. Are there more dimensions than X, Y, and Z? I believe there are. We humans are simply not capable of sensing these other dimensions. We have no biological capability to sense these other dimensions. Perhaps shadows are objects which consist of dimensions W, X and Y, but we can only sense the X and Y dimensions of these objects. They overlap our universe in dimensions X and Y, yet exist fully in a different universe. One that is slightly offset from the universe that we exist in. Overlapping, simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes.

You may have noticed that shadows are duplicates of 3 dimensional objects in all but one aspect. They lack a 3rd dimension, or that 3rd dimension cannot be detected by us. This adjacent, and partially detectable universe is nearly identical to ours. What if these coexisting multidimensional universes differed from ours in relation to their dimensional divergence? Nearby frequencies/universes are nearly identical, while highly divergent universes are much different.

Our universe overlaps these other universes, but we cannot detect them. They coexist within the same framework, but are separated by dimensional frequencies. Our universe resonates at dimensional frequency XYZ (With the separate dimensional components mixed as a whole), and other universes resonate at different dimensional frequencies. So we've got overlapping, simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. How many are there? I don't know. I believe that the number is very large, but I do not believe that it is infinite. We're now closer to the basis of the theory that time (and motion) do not exist.

What is time?:
If time doesn't exist, what is it that we sense as the passing of time? I'm glad you asked. Alright, let's talk about human experience for a minute. Humans perceive the passage of time as a continuous, contiguous series of linear experiences. We experience time as being continuous. It doesn't appear to stop, slow down, or speed up at any point. We experience it as contiguous. We don't jump over pieces of time. Skipping forward or back to the points that interest us. Humans also experience time as being linear. We can only experience things in a linear fashion. Moving continuously in one direction, without the ability to reverse direction.

Without time how do you explain human experience? I explain it in the following terms. It is a linear progression of ones consciousness through simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. A series of experienced, but simultaneous nows. Your consciousness travels in one direction down a specific probability path. Your life experience is the contiguous progression of your consciousness from one simultaneously coexisting multidimensional universe to another. Each node in the probability tree is a different multidimensional universe. This experience is also continuous (or experienced as being continuous). Our consciousness is in constant motion. A continual state of experience (Or is it? What are dreams?), as it traverses a probability tree through these simultaneously coexisting multidimensional universes. The human mind/consciousness is not capable of processing/experiencing all the nodes in any probability path simultaneously, so it orders them into a linear series.

No motion:
A critical component of this 'No Time theory' is the non-existence of motion. Several definitions of time express it as 'measurement of change'. The measurable change of matter or energy. Change is motion. Without change there is no motion. Without change there is no time. My/the theory of a static and non changing multidimensional universe, removes change from the equation. All possible positions of a physical body/object simultaneously exist in a dimension/universe that is slightly offset from the physical universe/reality which 'we' currently inhabit. There is no physical movement of objects/bodies in this universe. All things/states of mater/energy simultaneously coexist. The beginning and the end are static unmoving/unchanging events. It is the processing (in a linear, continuous, contiguous fashion) of these differing static nodes that creates the illusion of motion, and thus the illusion of 'time' as changes appear to occur. In my model of 'no time', there are no physical changes, thus 'No motion'.





Probability paths: (See illustration at left)
What is this probability tree that I mentioned? 'For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction' The reaction to any action is not the only possible reaction. There are many possible reactions to any action. A probability tree is a map of all possibilities for any given event. A probability path is the path followed down a probability tree in order to reach your current multidimensional position (the 'Now').

Try to envision the probabilities inherent when a coin is flipped. The first node of this probability tree is the point where the coin is flipped. After the coin is flipped three new probabilities (at least three) branch out from the initial node. There are three possibilities with regard to the outcome of the coin flipping (in a simplistic/illustrative sense). Each of these probabilities necessitates the existence/creation of another node. One for 'Heads', one for 'Tails', and one for the less likely result of 'Edge'.

The probability tree shown at the left is a crude illustration of a very small subset. It maps out a very small number of possible events. In order to expand it to the ultimate conclusion, you would have to take every conceivable event, and map a probability tree for every possible outcome. Doing so you would create a highly complex (but not infinite) probability matrix. A map of all possibilities/existence within our universe. Now imagine each possible outcome/node in the probability tree as being a separate reality/multidimensional universe. A separate static universe. Static indeed. Each possible event is an instantaneous Now. A single node within the probability matrix. Now overlap all of these realities/universes in the same space. Now you have those simultaneous, coexisting multidimensional universes I've been talking about. A 'Multiverse'.

The Human experience:
Now let's use the illustration above in order to explain some of what I've been saying about human experience. Each event in any such probability tree is static. Event A; Car runs a red light, Event A1; Car hits another car in the intersection. Event A2; Car passes through the intersection safely. Each and every node within the probability matrix constitutes a separate and unique multidimensional universe. A singular 'Now'.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a linear fashion. Our consciousness moves from one static (yes static and unchanging) multidimensional universe to another in one direction only. You cannot go from Event A2 to Event A. We lack the ability to experience/process this experience in total/instantaneously. Our consciousness/mind orders the journey through the nodes in a linear fashion. Our mind interprets this ordered linear progression through the probability matrix as the passage of 'Time'.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a contiguous fashion. We can only move to adjacent universes. Ones which overlap ours. Our consciousness is not capable of jumping to multiverse threads that are not adjacent to the one we are currently in. You cannot jump from Event A1 to A2, nor can you jump from Event A11 to A11113 without first experiencing Events A111 and A1111.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a continuous fashion. We cannot stop, slow down, or speed up the progression of our consciousness from one node to another.

We can actively control our progression through this probability matrix. We can steer the progression of our consciousness from one node/event to another. Provided the next event that we choose follows the linear, contiguous, and continuous rules I've described above. This is 'free will'. There is only one restriction on our free will. We can only direct our consciousness down our probability path. That path that we have mapped before us. If the node we wish to experience is downstream, and within our probability path, then we may visit that node.

Consciousness and free will:
Based on my 'theory', and the tenets of it. You may be saying that their is no individuality or "I" in regards to the physical sense. I'd agree. The way I see it; "I" (or self-consciousness) is continuity of consciousness from node to node within the matrix. You do not so much exist as a singular physical entity as you do a consciousness, a non-physical presence within the 'Multidimensional Universe'. Your consciousness roams (but not in a physical sense) this multidimensional universe. Moving from node to node, your experiences are formed as you select which node to process.

You might also conclude that there is no 'Free Will'. There is an illusion of free will in selecting the branches of the probability tree. In fact, there's no selection at all. Every branch is selected, but just one at a "time" is observed or processed. This second point also follows from the first point. When there's no-one implementing the free will, there's no sense in claiming that free will exists.all nodal branch selections are made simultaneously. In a timeless model, that's the only way they could be. I do not agree that the selections are made without choice. The choice in selection is free will. Choice is free will, regardless of whether all choices are made simultaneously (universe with no time), or in a manner more consistent with a traditional model (universe with time). Another way to think of it...

While it's true that all nodal choices/connections within the probability matrix have already been made, and the results mapped into the probability tree. "I" (self-consciousness) decide which nodes/choices to experience/process. This constitutes the free will portion of the equation, which in effect creates the "I" or self-consciousness. Only by selecting a series of nodes to process, a path so to speak, is self-consciousness realized. Until a path through the matrix is chosen, the self does not exist. Self comes into being once a path has been chosen.
If you are believe that someone else (god) chooses the path for you, then you have come to the conclusion that "your" destiny has been pre-ordained, and you are simply an observer. A side effect of path processing. You are destined to visit/experience/process each node in a pre-determined sequence. Each 'supposed' free action that you take has been mapped out ahead of time (so to speak). For example; if you decide at this moment to exercise free will by deleting this email, your choice to do so, including the supposed belief that it is by your free will, is all mapped out ahead of time.

I would argue that we do have free will. That the self is responsible for the nodal selection/processing (free will), that it is through nodal selection (mapping of our path through the probability matrix) that we realize free will, which in fact constitutes the self. We experience these nodal selections in a sequential manner, which is construed as the passage of time. The nodal selections are in fact instantaneous, but we do not experience them in that way. Selection and processing of the/a path through the probability matrix constitutes the self.

Conclusions:
So; Once again time does not exist. It is simply our mind applying an understandable framework to the progression of our consciousness through a series of static, overlapping, and simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. The progression of our consciousness occurs in a linear, contiguous, and continuous fashion.

[LetsGetReal]

If you copy from a webiste must have link...

[issaiah1332]

toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

According to relativity it is possible to travel through time. I am not sure exactly what god has to do with time travel. There are several paradoxes that come with time travel, solved by the theoretical existence of parallel universes, which gained scientific awareness with the emergence of M-theory. I don't think that parallel universes are in the Bible, nor do I think that Christians can accept it. There are thoughts on how to make such a device to travel time such as a Tipler Cylinder, and there are people who claim to have came from the future, for example John Titor.

[MJB]

topnut wrote: MJB wrote: toddytodd wrote: From a religious stand point, do you think time travel will be possible? Meaning if we could go back in time to the time of Christ, would God allow this? Would the christian outcome be any different? I have often wondered if humans advanced enough to travel through time, would God alow us to do so? Or will God allow us to advance enough to time travel?

Actually, from a religious standpoint, I think time travel is already possible, but not in the way you mean, I'm sure. For example, I would say that a seer, or prophet, seeing past or future events, would be experiencing a form of time travel.

However, I do not think God would allow man to develop technology that would allow him to time travel, if it was even possible, because to see events from the past, or the future, I believe, would only be given at God's discretion, for his purposes, to those he wishes to see them. And no, I don't think that would ever include the ability to go back and change the outcome of events.


FREE WILL BABY....WE CAN TIME TRAVEL IF IT'S POSSIBLE...FREE WILL BABY...END OF CONVERSATION.

Do you believe in God?

The reason I ask, is that my belief in God includes the belief that man receives his inspiration from God.

Man certainly has free will, and is free to think and act for himself. But it is God, who gives man the inspiration needed to bring about discovery, in whatever field of endeavor, from medicine to space exploration, and this inspiration is given according to God's will, at the time and place of his choosing.

[issaiah1332]

topnut wrote: Time Does Not Exist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sacrilege; You'll be burned at the stake for saying
such things! Recant now before it's too late.


How can this be you ask?:
I've been running around saying time does not exist for many years. There are a few books out there that do a good job of illustrating this belief, and I thought I'd write a silly little web page about my 'No such thing as time/or motion' belief. I guess you'd have to say it's a belief. It can't be proven or disproved in accordance with scientific theory (or can it), so it's not a theory. Can you 'prove' a negative?

I'm going to try and explain the nonexistence of time (and coincidentally the nonexistence of motion) in simple terms. Sure you can read about quantum physics and chaos theory in a book. But trying to understand it is no simple task. I promise not to make you do any math.

Origins of this 'Theory':
First and foremost, my beliefs on the nonexistence of time began very early. In grade school math class, I did a project for extra credit. I described a four dimensional cube to my class. Not all that difficult; hypercubes have been part of math, physics, and geometry for hundreds, if not thousands of years. After the extra credit project, I began wondering about higher dimensional objects. I started thinking about shadows and lower dimensional objects. As I made my way through high school, I read a few other books about metaphysics. Eventually I formulated a few wild eyed ideas of my own. Nothing I could prove, but something I've been describing to anyone who would listen for many years.

Time simply does not exist. I guess you could call me a materialist. If you can't sense something with your senses does it really exist? Try to describe time, without using time as a reference. We can't see it, can't smell it, can't taste it, etc, etc. Are there any machines that can measure it? A clock? really? What does a clock measure? The movement of its own hands? That's time? What does a clock really measure? Is time defined by the motion of our planet around the sun?

Let's get a little more interesting. If time does exist when was it created? Did it always exist? Did it exist before man came along? Does time really slow down if an object approaches the speed of light? I seriously doubt it. Where does time slow down? Does all time slow down? Just the time around the object moving near the speed of light? I thought time or for that matter the speed of light were supposed to be universal standards. On with some explanations...

Basics:
I'm not all that good at math, so don't expect me to recite formulas, or provide any type of mathematical proof for my hair brained ideas. Others have already tried that. I tried to follow their math, but all it did was give me a head ache. If you want proof, you might want to try a simpler subject.

The basis of my crazy little ideas can best be defined through the basics of quantum mechanics and theoretical physics. Once again, I'm not going to try and provide mathematical proofs or formulas of any sort. If you'd like to see that sort of thing, I suggest you check out a good quantum physics book. These theories about time not existing rest primarily on the belief in the existence of Multidimensional Universes, and the Simultaneous Coexistence of these Multidimensional Universes.

Multidimensional universes:
First off let's start with what we know. You know that you exist, right? O.k. that's good. If you're not willing to admit this, you've got some bigger problems to deal with. Next you must admit that you are a three dimensional person/object. You have height, width, and depth. O.k. were on a roll here. Objects in our immediate plane of existence can be defined as having 3 dimensions. Humans can detect objects that coexist in the same dimension (multidimensional universe) as them. We exist in a universe which is defined by 3 specific dimensions. Let's call them X, Y, and Z. Everything in this universe can be defined through expressions of these 3 dimensions. Are you with me? Good. I'll take it that you believe, and understand what I'm saying.

Let's expand on this a little bit. Solid objects in our universe exist within a 3 dimensional framework. They have varying X, Y, and Z dimensions that define their existence. Can we sense objects that do not have 3 dimensions? Sure we can, we can see 2 dimensional objects. We define 2 dimensional objects as having only 2 of the 3 dimensions that we can sense. So, Humans can detect both 2 and 3 dimensional objects. We can detect objects that are not fully 3 dimensional. We've just begun the journey. We can detect objects that are not fully 3 dimensional; objects within a multidimensional universe which overlaps ours, but we cannot detect objects that exist wholly outside our subset of 3 dimensions.

2 dimensional, and 3 dimensional objects can coexist simultaneously without interfering with each other. If something casts a shadow on a 3 dimensional object the two coexist simultaneously. The shadow occupies the same physical space as the solid object without displacing it (No sidetracking on the other effects at this point). So here we can see that multidimensional objects can coexist simultaneously within the same space. A 2 dimensional object and a 3 dimensional object can occupy the same physical space.

Time to expand on that simple fact. Are there more dimensions than X, Y, and Z? I believe there are. We humans are simply not capable of sensing these other dimensions. We have no biological capability to sense these other dimensions. Perhaps shadows are objects which consist of dimensions W, X and Y, but we can only sense the X and Y dimensions of these objects. They overlap our universe in dimensions X and Y, yet exist fully in a different universe. One that is slightly offset from the universe that we exist in. Overlapping, simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes.

You may have noticed that shadows are duplicates of 3 dimensional objects in all but one aspect. They lack a 3rd dimension, or that 3rd dimension cannot be detected by us. This adjacent, and partially detectable universe is nearly identical to ours. What if these coexisting multidimensional universes differed from ours in relation to their dimensional divergence? Nearby frequencies/universes are nearly identical, while highly divergent universes are much different.

Our universe overlaps these other universes, but we cannot detect them. They coexist within the same framework, but are separated by dimensional frequencies. Our universe resonates at dimensional frequency XYZ (With the separate dimensional components mixed as a whole), and other universes resonate at different dimensional frequencies. So we've got overlapping, simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. How many are there? I don't know. I believe that the number is very large, but I do not believe that it is infinite. We're now closer to the basis of the theory that time (and motion) do not exist.

What is time?:
If time doesn't exist, what is it that we sense as the passing of time? I'm glad you asked. Alright, let's talk about human experience for a minute. Humans perceive the passage of time as a continuous, contiguous series of linear experiences. We experience time as being continuous. It doesn't appear to stop, slow down, or speed up at any point. We experience it as contiguous. We don't jump over pieces of time. Skipping forward or back to the points that interest us. Humans also experience time as being linear. We can only experience things in a linear fashion. Moving continuously in one direction, without the ability to reverse direction.

Without time how do you explain human experience? I explain it in the following terms. It is a linear progression of ones consciousness through simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. A series of experienced, but simultaneous nows. Your consciousness travels in one direction down a specific probability path. Your life experience is the contiguous progression of your consciousness from one simultaneously coexisting multidimensional universe to another. Each node in the probability tree is a different multidimensional universe. This experience is also continuous (or experienced as being continuous). Our consciousness is in constant motion. A continual state of experience (Or is it? What are dreams?), as it traverses a probability tree through these simultaneously coexisting multidimensional universes. The human mind/consciousness is not capable of processing/experiencing all the nodes in any probability path simultaneously, so it orders them into a linear series.

No motion:
A critical component of this 'No Time theory' is the non-existence of motion. Several definitions of time express it as 'measurement of change'. The measurable change of matter or energy. Change is motion. Without change there is no motion. Without change there is no time. My/the theory of a static and non changing multidimensional universe, removes change from the equation. All possible positions of a physical body/object simultaneously exist in a dimension/universe that is slightly offset from the physical universe/reality which 'we' currently inhabit. There is no physical movement of objects/bodies in this universe. All things/states of mater/energy simultaneously coexist. The beginning and the end are static unmoving/unchanging events. It is the processing (in a linear, continuous, contiguous fashion) of these differing static nodes that creates the illusion of motion, and thus the illusion of 'time' as changes appear to occur. In my model of 'no time', there are no physical changes, thus 'No motion'.





Probability paths: (See illustration at left)
What is this probability tree that I mentioned? 'For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction' The reaction to any action is not the only possible reaction. There are many possible reactions to any action. A probability tree is a map of all possibilities for any given event. A probability path is the path followed down a probability tree in order to reach your current multidimensional position (the 'Now').

Try to envision the probabilities inherent when a coin is flipped. The first node of this probability tree is the point where the coin is flipped. After the coin is flipped three new probabilities (at least three) branch out from the initial node. There are three possibilities with regard to the outcome of the coin flipping (in a simplistic/illustrative sense). Each of these probabilities necessitates the existence/creation of another node. One for 'Heads', one for 'Tails', and one for the less likely result of 'Edge'.

The probability tree shown at the left is a crude illustration of a very small subset. It maps out a very small number of possible events. In order to expand it to the ultimate conclusion, you would have to take every conceivable event, and map a probability tree for every possible outcome. Doing so you would create a highly complex (but not infinite) probability matrix. A map of all possibilities/existence within our universe. Now imagine each possible outcome/node in the probability tree as being a separate reality/multidimensional universe. A separate static universe. Static indeed. Each possible event is an instantaneous Now. A single node within the probability matrix. Now overlap all of these realities/universes in the same space. Now you have those simultaneous, coexisting multidimensional universes I've been talking about. A 'Multiverse'.

The Human experience:
Now let's use the illustration above in order to explain some of what I've been saying about human experience. Each event in any such probability tree is static. Event A; Car runs a red light, Event A1; Car hits another car in the intersection. Event A2; Car passes through the intersection safely. Each and every node within the probability matrix constitutes a separate and unique multidimensional universe. A singular 'Now'.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a linear fashion. Our consciousness moves from one static (yes static and unchanging) multidimensional universe to another in one direction only. You cannot go from Event A2 to Event A. We lack the ability to experience/process this experience in total/instantaneously. Our consciousness/mind orders the journey through the nodes in a linear fashion. Our mind interprets this ordered linear progression through the probability matrix as the passage of 'Time'.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a contiguous fashion. We can only move to adjacent universes. Ones which overlap ours. Our consciousness is not capable of jumping to multiverse threads that are not adjacent to the one we are currently in. You cannot jump from Event A1 to A2, nor can you jump from Event A11 to A11113 without first experiencing Events A111 and A1111.

Humans are only able to experience existence in a continuous fashion. We cannot stop, slow down, or speed up the progression of our consciousness from one node to another.

We can actively control our progression through this probability matrix. We can steer the progression of our consciousness from one node/event to another. Provided the next event that we choose follows the linear, contiguous, and continuous rules I've described above. This is 'free will'. There is only one restriction on our free will. We can only direct our consciousness down our probability path. That path that we have mapped before us. If the node we wish to experience is downstream, and within our probability path, then we may visit that node.

Consciousness and free will:
Based on my 'theory', and the tenets of it. You may be saying that their is no individuality or "I" in regards to the physical sense. I'd agree. The way I see it; "I" (or self-consciousness) is continuity of consciousness from node to node within the matrix. You do not so much exist as a singular physical entity as you do a consciousness, a non-physical presence within the 'Multidimensional Universe'. Your consciousness roams (but not in a physical sense) this multidimensional universe. Moving from node to node, your experiences are formed as you select which node to process.

You might also conclude that there is no 'Free Will'. There is an illusion of free will in selecting the branches of the probability tree. In fact, there's no selection at all. Every branch is selected, but just one at a "time" is observed or processed. This second point also follows from the first point. When there's no-one implementing the free will, there's no sense in claiming that free will exists.all nodal branch selections are made simultaneously. In a timeless model, that's the only way they could be. I do not agree that the selections are made without choice. The choice in selection is free will. Choice is free will, regardless of whether all choices are made simultaneously (universe with no time), or in a manner more consistent with a traditional model (universe with time). Another way to think of it...

While it's true that all nodal choices/connections within the probability matrix have already been made, and the results mapped into the probability tree. "I" (self-consciousness) decide which nodes/choices to experience/process. This constitutes the free will portion of the equation, which in effect creates the "I" or self-consciousness. Only by selecting a series of nodes to process, a path so to speak, is self-consciousness realized. Until a path through the matrix is chosen, the self does not exist. Self comes into being once a path has been chosen.
If you are believe that someone else (god) chooses the path for you, then you have come to the conclusion that "your" destiny has been pre-ordained, and you are simply an observer. A side effect of path processing. You are destined to visit/experience/process each node in a pre-determined sequence. Each 'supposed' free action that you take has been mapped out ahead of time (so to speak). For example; if you decide at this moment to exercise free will by deleting this email, your choice to do so, including the supposed belief that it is by your free will, is all mapped out ahead of time.

I would argue that we do have free will. That the self is responsible for the nodal selection/processing (free will), that it is through nodal selection (mapping of our path through the probability matrix) that we realize free will, which in fact constitutes the self. We experience these nodal selections in a sequential manner, which is construed as the passage of time. The nodal selections are in fact instantaneous, but we do not experience them in that way. Selection and processing of the/a path through the probability matrix constitutes the self.

Conclusions:
So; Once again time does not exist. It is simply our mind applying an understandable framework to the progression of our consciousness through a series of static, overlapping, and simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. The progression of our consciousness occurs in a linear, contiguous, and continuous fashion.


This theory sounds very much like Zeno's. Aristotle gave solutions to Zeno's paradoxes. If there is only a collection of "nows" than what about temporal magnitude. You said that there is no way to disprove this so called theory, but there is always some kind of supporting proof, even if it is proof by contradiction.

Motion and/or change does exist and can be expressed. A mathematical account would be as follows: in the limit, as the length of a moment approaches zero, the instantaneous rate of change or velocity (which is the quotient of distance over length of the moment) does not have to approach zero. This nonzero limit is the velocity of the object at the instant.

According to your probability, there is an equal chance that another universe is not static at all, and therefore a frame of reference, as the inhabitants of this universe might not see the simultaneity of events, but the transition from one "now" to another and therefore the affect of change/time.

Your theory fails to incorporate frames of reference.

How do you explain gravity and speed's changing of time?

[issaiah1332]

And do you consider your views to be based on Zeno's or on block time?