Political Crossfire Forums

[maskedJR]

lucidnightmare wrote: Luke 22:36: "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

There is NO basis to believe that Christ taught passivism.

This was symbolic, and must be kept in context. Read further in this chapter.

Quote: Luke22: 49-51...When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, "suffer ye thus far" and he touched his ear, and healed him.

This seems very obvious to me that Jesus was not supporting violence with the sword as you argue. This would also tie into the armour of God.

Quote: Ephesians 6:11-17

Put on the whole armour of God, they ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalites, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

...And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

[lucidnightmare]

Yes that was in the garden when he was arrested.Which HAD to take place given the redemptive nature of his role.

The verse mentions two swords and tells them to get money to buy them.That leads me to believe they were actual swords.

Do you get passivism from the OT?

[eynon]

psholtz wrote: sLiPpY wrote: :think: Beats the hell out of me, excepting...maybe those folks in Church, really aren't "Christians." :P
No, generally speaking, most "Church-going" folk in this country are anything but Christians.. They are (generally speaking) liars and imposters and posers, and their fate was spelled out in graphic detail by the Nazarene himself over 2,000 years ago in Matthew 7:21-23..

now hold on a sec Paul........in both Mathew and Luke Jesus spends time with Roman soldiers, a centurion specfically, And we all know what being a Roman soldier entailed(nailing people to trees, occupying countries, and stabbing, lots and lots of stabbing).......yet Christ does not attack the man for his military service nor call him a hypocrit, he compliments the man on his sincere faith............so what's up with that? :-|

[psholtz]

Eynon81 wrote: psholtz wrote: sLiPpY wrote: :think: Beats the hell out of me, excepting...maybe those folks in Church, really aren't "Christians." :P
No, generally speaking, most "Church-going" folk in this country are anything but Christians.. They are (generally speaking) liars and imposters and posers, and their fate was spelled out in graphic detail by the Nazarene himself over 2,000 years ago in Matthew 7:21-23..

now hold on a sec Paul........in both Mathew and Luke Jesus spends time with Roman soldiers, a centurion specfically, And we all know what being a Roman soldier entailed(nailing people to trees, occupying countries, and stabbing, lots and lots of stabbing).......yet Christ does not attack the man for his military service nor call him a hypocrit, he compliments the man on his sincere faith............so what's up with that? :-|
I'm sure there were many Romans who had a decent head on their shoulders wrt religion and faith in God.

Cicero is a good example:

Quote: The true law, is right reason, conformable to the nature of things, constant, eternal, diffused through all, which calls us to duty by commanding, deters us from sin by forbidding; which never loses its influence with the good, nor ever preserves it with the wicked. This law cannot be over- ruled by any other, nor abrogated in whole or in part; nor can we be absolved from it either by the senate or by the people; nor are we to seek any other comment or interpreter of it but himself; nor can there be one law at Rome and another at Athens; one now and another hereafter; but the same eternal immutable law comprehends all nations at all times, under one common master and governor of all -- GOD. He is the inventor, propounder, enactor of this law; and whoever will not obey it must first renounce himself, and throw off the nature of man; by doing which, he will suffer the greatest punishments though he should escape all the other torments which are commonly believed to be prepared for the wicked.

-- Cicero

It's not uncommon for U.S. fighter pilots or special forces to have an IQ over 140, and I'm sure there were Roman centurians who were just as sharp as well (reading Plutarch's Lives should convince you of this, if I don't). If Jesus encountered a Roman centurion who was waxing philosophical in the spirit of Cicero (as quoted above), then it doesn't take a Biblical scholar to see that such a centurion had a great and deep faith in the Lord God and that him and Jesus could have found a lot of common ground upon which to speak and discourse.

What passes for "Christianity" in America, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. You could probably count the number of Americans who have been "genuinely" Christian, genuinely born again of the Spirit as taught by Jesus in John 3, on two hands.

Well... perhaps I'm exaggerating, but not by much.

America has never produced any great works by which to praise and give glory to the Creator. America has never produced a Shakespeare to wax poetic about the love and mercy of God.. America has never produced a Michelangelo to carve sculptures of David and Jesus out of marble blocks.. America has never produced the host of musicians and composers who have written great choral Masses and Pastoral Symphonies in honor of God.. America has never produced the great Gothic cathedrals, symbolic riddles carved in stone, which hold w/in their architecture the Key to unlocking all the mysteries of the Bible (we have a few cheap imitations of such cathedrals in Washington and New York, but that's all they are: cheap imitations, completely devoid of any and all of the profound symbolism that characterizes the European Gothic monuments).

America HAS produced a HANDFUL (and it truly is just a handful) of philosophers and honorable statesmen WHO WERE BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT (AS THEREFORE, "TRUE" CHRISTIANS) as Jesus teaches in John 3. Names like Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ralph Waldo Emerson come to mind (although there are, relatively speaking, many many more). All the men I listed above were GENUINELY BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT as taught by Christ, and were GENUINE CHRISTIANS in the true sense of the word, although NONE OF THEM (perhaps w/ the exception of Emerson, who was an ordained minister) could be found ANYWHERE NEAR A "CHRISTIAN" CHURCH ON SUNDAY MORNING, for these men did not desire to taint themselves w/ the hypocrisy and blasphemy (passing, incredibly, under the name of "Christ" and "Christianity") that has *always* characterized American churches.

Such (true) Christians were rare 200 years ago, and even then most of these men were loathe to publicly identify themselves as "Christians", for fear of being associated w/ the hypocrisy and intolerance that has always characterized orthodox Christianty.. and if such Christians were RARE 200 years ago, they are all but EXTINCT in America today. True, they still exist, in small numbers in very scattered communities, laboring as they always have for truth and justice and liberty, but their influence on society today is almost imperceptible and their numbers (esp in relation to America's population, which has increased dramatically over that time span) are almost inconsequential.

So, to put it succintly .. in so many words, America totally sux at Christianity.

If America is not blasphemizing God by burning witches at the stake, then she is blasphemizing God by using the Bible as an excuse to enslave Black people, and if not that, then she is blasphemizing God w/ the modern-day absurdities that pass for "Christian worship" in this nation like mind-control Mega-Churches (which, like most corporations, are closed on Christmas Day no less) and Pat Robertson + Joel Olsteen and super crappy "Christian" rock, and "God told me to go invade Iraq" and "You're not a good Christian if you don't support Zionist Israel" and "Jesus wants YOU to be a Millionaire!"

The penalties for these sins shall be great and terrible, indeed..

America goes together w/ Christianity about as well as oil goes together w/ water.

America has always been, in principle, in theory, in practice, in organization of government, in organization of military, and in organization of trade much more like ancient Greece or Rome than like Christianized Europe. America is far more pagan than Christian Europe. Always has been and always will be. We don't worship God at church on Sunday, we worship God at the Super Bowl.. or at least, that's where we WISH to worship God. The problem is, our model of Jesus doesn't go together very well the worship we give (or desire to give) God at the Superbowl. So we neglect to worship ANY GOD at all at the Superbowl (in contradiction to what our better instincts tell us to do), and instead we just dress up Brittney Spears in a skimpy bikini and force her to jiggle around on stage for 30 minutes and be our Roman Vestal Virgin for the day (or for the hour), so we can then quickly get on w/ the pagan bloodsport that really arouses our fervor and that really is the source of our ecstasy (spiritual and otherwise).

Now, if we were rid of this silly pacificst, deep-thinking, morally-inclined Jesus, and if we were back to Good Ol' Zeus.. the God of Thunderbolts.. the God who throws Lightning at his Will, the studly God who fathers dozens of children, both amongst the goddesses and mere mortal women, the God of War, the God of Great Feasts, the Proud God of Victory and Invincibility.. If this were our God, now that would be entirely more in keeping w/ the American character than this Jesus chap. It would be entirely more in keeping w/ our SuperBowl than Jesus is. Now don't get me wrong.. Jesus is nice and all, but you can hardly picture Jesus referreeing the SuperBowl w/ the same August, Regal Royal Splendour that Zeus would bring to the playing field.

This is not entirely by accident, either. America's Founders had a post-Christian vision for this nation. "Deism" is what they called it, but unfortunately for us (or perhaps not?), they didn't give this new brand of religious thought as much time or consideration as they did to the Constitution, and so although -- for a relatively *long* time -- we have been a free and prosperous people (thanks to the Constitution) -- we have been spiritually adrift. Christianity does not fit our national character at all, period. And in its place, more especially now in the 20th and 21st century, we have substituted a crass, degrading materialism. Materialism of any variety is always deadening and degrading, but in this case -- since Americans are SO GOOD at achieving whatever they set their minds to accomplishing, and we since we have become SO GOOD at being SOO MATERIALISTIC, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO SATISFY THE FORM OF SPIRITUALITY THAT WE INSTINCTIVELY DESIRE AND CRAVE -- our materialism (which has become great and colossal indeed) threatens to destroy not just America and this great nation, but w/ it, the entire planet and all human civilzation as we currently know it.

It's a very dangerous time that we live in, indeed..

[eynon]

^wow, you've given this come thought haven't you:)

[psholtz]

Eynon81 wrote: ^wow, you've given this come thought haven't you:)
It's actually one of my regular stump speeches.. :lol:

[sLiPpY]

psholtz wrote: Leo Tolstoy wrote an incredibly good book on this topic called The Kingdom of God is Within You:

http://www.kingdomnow.org/withinyou.html

Danke! I'll definately give it a read. :-D

[cap'n queasy]

Gus wrote: Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:39 wrote: But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Jesus Christ, Luke 6:29 wrote: If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
Jesus Christ, John 8:7 wrote: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

When I occasionally go to church with my family, it amazes me to hear how pro-war the entire church is. Actually, most Christians I know think that we should retaliate against the terrorists and crush them into the ground. After reminding them about the above passages, they momentarily stare blankly at me, then quickly rationalize themselves. I want to know if there's any pro-war-on-terrorists or pro-war-on-anybody Christians out there that can provide a good reason to contradict what Jesus Himself said. How can a Christian not be a pacifist?

Y'shua actually tied knots into a piece of rope and flogged some wrongdoers in the Temple with it, so it may be that pacifism is not His entire message.

Think about this,
That is speaking on an individual, personal level between two people. How relationships between individuals should be handled. You should love your brother, but there are times when evil must be dealt with.

If you notice there are many, many passages in the Bible in which it is showed that God put certain people of authority in power to punish evil and protect the nation and/or society. And in many cases God actually demanded warfare against certain peoples for various reasons.

To render to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's goes a whole lot further than just the question of should Christian's pay taxes to "Rome".

Warfare is a fact of human existence. All the more reason we need Y'shua's example. It's one of our worst traits, but a totally pacifistic culture will not last long in this world, God did not sentence His followers to certain destruction.

He means for us to do our best to maintain justice, integrity, and brotherhood in our society.

Sometimes we don't do so well at it.

[cap'n queasy]

Eynon81 wrote: ^wow, you've given this come thought haven't you:)

You didn't notice that the gist of that spiel was that the US *always* "sux" at Christianity and so should revert to pagan worship?

He just told you that only a certain very few folks were truly born of the spirit and then went on to say this:

Quote: Now, if we were rid of this silly pacificst, deep-thinking, morally-inclined Jesus, and if we were back to Good Ol' Zeus.. the God of Thunderbolts.. the God who throws Lightning at his Will, the studly God who fathers dozens of children, both amongst the goddesses and mere mortal women, the God of War, the God of Great Feasts, the Proud God of Victory and Invincibility.. If this were our God, now that would be entirely more in keeping w/ the American character than this Jesus chap. It would be entirely more in keeping w/ our SuperBowl than Jesus is. Now don't get me wrong.. Jesus is nice and all, but you can hardly picture Jesus referreeing the SuperBowl w/ the same August, Regal Royal Splendour that Zeus would bring to the playing field.

This is not entirely by accident, either. America's Founders had a post-Christian vision for this nation.

Now which is it?

The founders were the only "true" Christians, or were they were "post-Christian Deists". It cannot be both.

That was a nicely done example of persausive writing, but it is built on a foundation of contradiction, generalization, and deceit. Claiming that somehow the supposed lack of cathedrals in the US and the existence of the Superbowl show that the US is somehow *alway* unfit to realize God and should revert to paganism is very, very intellectually dishonest.

It's in keeping with the many, many other disjointed things I've heard from him, it always starts out "You're not a true Christian, you're a pagan" but as the diatribe goes on something weird happens and the dialogue is suddenly turned on it's head and becomes Christianity is evil, the Bible is evil, and it is paganism that is good and Y'shua was actually a pagan, and that to be a "true" born again Christian is follow some warped image of what Y'shua taught.

At any rate it is obvious that his impetus is to impugn the God of the Bible and promote something else.

But whatever. It doesn't matter.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Now which is it?

The founders were the only "true" Christians, or were they were "post-Christian Deists". It cannot be both.
Of course they can. You're just getting hung up on labels, as you always do.

For instance, what about Elijah? Or Elisha? These men were certainly "born again of the Spirit", and in this sense we could say that they were "Christians" in the modern way that we use that label. But then again, that might sound silly, since strictly speaking Jesus of Nazareth had not yet been born, so they didn't exactly follow the Nazarene's recipe for being born again, did they? They must have followed something else that worked equally well.. (or, conversely, the recipe that Jesus taught openly has been in existence since the dawn of mankind).

What about Abraham? He was born again.. How about Moses? Or for that matter Cicero? (see the quote I gave above). All born again, yet all "pre-Christians", so to speak.

The Founding Fathers I cited were also "born again" of the Spirit, and hence genuine "Christians" as Jesus desired his followers to be, but at the same time they eschewed any connection to orthodox "Christian" creeds and dogmas, for even in their day (200 years ago) such creeds and dogmas had become grossly polluted and degraded and perverted. It's far worse today.

Their vision was one of a post-Christian world, and America is even to this day in the process of realizing that vision (or else she will die trying).

Quote: That was a nicely done example of persausive writing, but it is built on a foundation of contradiction, generalization, and deceit. Claiming that somehow the supposed lack of cathedrals in the US and the existence of the Superbowl show that the US is somehow *alway* unfit to realize God and should revert to paganism is very, very intellectually dishonest.
The U.S. has long since reverted to paganism, but it's a paganism of a vastly more materialistic and destructive nature than anything ancient Greece or Rome ever produced. I cited the example of Brittney Spears above as serving as our example of a "Vestal Virgin".. as the cute, sexy eye-candy that (randomly) appears during our religious rites and ceremonies to keep the public's gaze from wandering off to something else. Of course, in Rome, they used REAL virgins for this job, and they enforced this law w/ the strictest of severity. For a Vestal Virgin of Rome to be found to be unchaste was punishable by the most brutal of capital punishment (she was usually buried alive, after various and sundry other tortures). In the 1,000 years of Rome's reign, this law was only broken once or twice.

In the case of Brittney Spears, we all know just how chaste she is, and just what a role model she makes for America's youth.

Quote: It's in keeping with the many, many other disjointed things I've heard from him, it always starts out "You're not a true Christian, you're a pagan" but as the diatribe goes on something weird happens and the dialogue is suddenly turned on it's head and becomes Christianity is evil, the Bible is evil, and it is paganism that is good and Y'shua was actually a pagan, and that to be a "true" born again Christian is follow some warped image of what Y'shua taught.
I never said that Christianity - in the authentic sense of that religion - is evil.. it's only evil in the sense of how Pat Robertson or Joel Olsteen or these zany Christian Zionists try to practice it. I never said the Bible was evil either, although I've seen that book render more harm than good unto people who were not prepared to be reading it.

Did not the Nazarene teach that only the seed that falls on good soil shall grow into a great harvest?

What happens to the seed that falls anywhere else?

Did Jesus not teach that this was the single most important lesson he ever taught?

The things I say appear "disjointed" to you b/c I accept and incorporate the duality of Nature into my manner of speaking. You refuse to even acknowledge the existence of any such duality. So how can you possibly expect to ever understand *anything* I ever say about such topics?

There's not one Christianity, there are two. There's the "real" Christianity, as exemplified first by the Nazarene, and subsequently by all other men who had become born again. Then there's the Christianity of the posers and fakers, the ones who go to Mega-Church to be seen, who proudly trumpt from the rooftops that they've been "born again" and who think you can't be a good Christian unless you support Zionist Israel. There is not one paganism, but two. There's the destructive, war-mongering paganism, and then there's the paganism of Cicero, who as we've seen is the best eloquent exponent of monotheism the human race has yet produced. There's not one Gnostic, there are two. One is the degraded fool who believes all matter is evil, and other is the One who truly Knows. There is not one Law, there are two. There is the absurdity that passes amongst the Jews as "law" (613 Mitzvoh), and then there is the Divine Law as born from God Himself, that you shall reap precisely as you sow, and that as you do unto others, so shall it be done unto you.

If you don't understand this, you'll never understand *anything* I say about religious or philosophical topics.

[cap'n queasy]

Understanding you is not the problem.

You see, it's not that I am "hung up on labels", it's that your frame of reference shifts constantly as the conversation begins to get restricted, and definitions of terms are demanded to establish validity, and you have to work overtime to reconcile the inherent contradictions that come up when you do this and are faced with someone who understands what is occurring.

But at the end of the day words have distinct meanings, and when you use a certain word it invokes a precise meaning. And since you deal in ambiguity, when someone pins you down with what the ramifications of the precise meaning of what you said are, you like to shift gears and claim you meant something entirely different.

In simpler terms, you are one shifty mofo. :lol:

Let me demonstrate.
Quote: There is not one Law, there are two. There is the absurdity that passes amongst the Jews as "law"

The ramifications of the precise meaning of this statement, which you now will deny, are that Jewish folks are somehow "unlawful" and therefore it is "OK" to hate them. Try as you might, you cannot resist the urge to say things that reveal your true motivation. What does any of that have to do at all with the conversation? No normal person would think this statement justified their earlier comments.

Quote: zany Christian Zionists
A less ambiguous man who held your beliefs would simply say "Jew Lover". :lol:

The reason you have a problem with Christianity is that Israel has a role to play besides simply being destroyed, and you don't like that idea at all. So you try to reconcile Christianity with Greek and Roman paganism. The Romans of the time of Cicero, and the Greeks that preceded them were highly anti-semitic, as well. No different than the Nazis, really, if you get right down to it. All three tried their level best to wipe the Jews off the face of the earth. And a time is coming where this will happen again. You can literally see the ascendency of anti-semitism happening, all over the world.

They, like the modern anti-semite, thought they saw some political threat, and behind it the Jews. As this German propaganda poster clearly shows.


Quote: This Nazi propaganda poster reads, ‘Behind the enemy powers: the Jew.’ Similar allegations of insidious Jewish power are being made today across the political spectrum.

Sounds exactly like many of the theories that are in vogue now. Perhaps not as ambiguous as is necessary in propaganda designed for general US society today, but that is only because anti-semitism was very popular in Germany at that particular time in history and so the crudity did not turn people off like it would here. It is particularly interesting to me to see really intelligent people so subject to what amounts to such a base pack mentality. There are definitely some interesting implications in that.

[soldierofchrist]

psholtz wrote: Eynon81 wrote: psholtz wrote: sLiPpY wrote: :think: Beats the hell out of me, excepting...maybe those folks in Church, really aren't "Christians." :P
No, generally speaking, most "Church-going" folk in this country are anything but Christians.. They are (generally speaking) liars and imposters and posers, and their fate was spelled out in graphic detail by the Nazarene himself over 2,000 years ago in Matthew 7:21-23..

now hold on a sec Paul........in both Mathew and Luke Jesus spends time with Roman soldiers, a centurion specfically, And we all know what being a Roman soldier entailed(nailing people to trees, occupying countries, and stabbing, lots and lots of stabbing).......yet Christ does not attack the man for his military service nor call him a hypocrit, he compliments the man on his sincere faith............so what's up with that? :-|
I'm sure there were many Romans who had a decent head on their shoulders wrt religion and faith in God.

Cicero is a good example:

Quote: The true law, is right reason, conformable to the nature of things, constant, eternal, diffused through all, which calls us to duty by commanding, deters us from sin by forbidding; which never loses its influence with the good, nor ever preserves it with the wicked. This law cannot be over- ruled by any other, nor abrogated in whole or in part; nor can we be absolved from it either by the senate or by the people; nor are we to seek any other comment or interpreter of it but himself; nor can there be one law at Rome and another at Athens; one now and another hereafter; but the same eternal immutable law comprehends all nations at all times, under one common master and governor of all -- GOD. He is the inventor, propounder, enactor of this law; and whoever will not obey it must first renounce himself, and throw off the nature of man; by doing which, he will suffer the greatest punishments though he should escape all the other torments which are commonly believed to be prepared for the wicked.

-- Cicero

It's not uncommon for U.S. fighter pilots or special forces to have an IQ over 140, and I'm sure there were Roman centurians who were just as sharp as well (reading Plutarch's Lives should convince you of this, if I don't). If Jesus encountered a Roman centurion who was waxing philosophical in the spirit of Cicero (as quoted above), then it doesn't take a Biblical scholar to see that such a centurion had a great and deep faith in the Lord God and that him and Jesus could have found a lot of common ground upon which to speak and discourse.

What passes for "Christianity" in America, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. You could probably count the number of Americans who have been "genuinely" Christian, genuinely born again of the Spirit as taught by Jesus in John 3, on two hands.

Well... perhaps I'm exaggerating, but not by much.

America has never produced any great works by which to praise and give glory to the Creator. America has never produced a Shakespeare to wax poetic about the love and mercy of God.. America has never produced a Michelangelo to carve sculptures of David and Jesus out of marble blocks.. America has never produced the host of musicians and composers who have written great choral Masses and Pastoral Symphonies in honor of God.. America has never produced the great Gothic cathedrals, symbolic riddles carved in stone, which hold w/in their architecture the Key to unlocking all the mysteries of the Bible (we have a few cheap imitations of such cathedrals in Washington and New York, but that's all they are: cheap imitations, completely devoid of any and all of the profound symbolism that characterizes the European Gothic monuments).
Hey we have produced:

:lol: :lol:

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Sounds exactly like many of the theories that are in vogue now. Perhaps not as ambiguous as is necessary in propaganda designed for general US society today, but that is only because anti-semitism was very popular in Germany at that particular time in history and so the crudity did not turn people off like it would here. It is particularly interesting to me to see really intelligent people so subject to what amounts to such a base pack mentality. There are definitely some interesting implications in that.
About how many hours of TV do you watch each day, cap'n?

[cap'n queasy]

I rarely watch TV.

And what does that have to do with anything I said?

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: This Nazi propaganda poster reads, ‘Behind the enemy powers: the Jew.’ Similar allegations of insidious Jewish power are being made today across the political spectrum.

This is an exact pictorial representation of your world view, Paul.

Anyone can look back through your rantings and see that the three flags contained in the picture are the three countries you always attack, because they are supposedly controlled behind the scenes by some nebulous power.

In other posts we see you constantly mention that this power behind the scenes is "Zionism".

Your words speak for themselves, even if you deny what they mean.

[eynon]

hey Cap'n, how do think the story of Christ and the Centurion should effect a Christian view of pacifism?

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: And what does that have to do with anything I said?
About how many hours a day would you say you watch TV?

[cap'n queasy]

Look Paul, it is you, not me who constantly use TV related metaphors to prove your points. Brittany Spears, the Superbowl etc. You obviously think with a TV centered outlook of the world. You even identify yourself with a TV character, Fox Mulder, so get off your high horse. :lol:. When have I ever tried to relate something to a TV character or show?

I usually do not watch TV. Sometimes I catch a show on the Discovery channel or watch a movie if I am bored.

Anyway, you are only trying to divert attention away from my point, which clearly shows your worldview is seriously flawed.

[cap'n queasy]

Eynon81 wrote: hey Cap'n, how do think the story of Christ and the Centurion should effect a Christian view of pacifism?

I don't see that Y'shua asked the man to abandon his duty. Paul and Peter both are explicit in their directions about how Christians should obey authority. An important part of Christianity is adherence to duty, even in wartime. Christians are needed on the battlefield to testify, just like they are needed everywhere else. Christians are supposed to influence the world every where they go.

If the authority is clearly evil, like say the Nazis where, we are to say no and accept the consequences. Not take up the sword and fight it.
Quote: Re 13:10 - If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Personally I think all this talk about revolution in the US and around the world will lead to something very like the Nazis, except on a global scale and this will be the end of humanity.

Notice in Daniel chapter two the statue in Nebuchadnezzer's dream that represents the power of the Gentile nations has feet of iron and clay mixed (this represents the last Gentile world power). Daniel explains this means the last Gentile empire will be sharply divided among themselves. Obviously we are at this point in time IMHO.

The statue is toppled by a stone the size of a mountain that is cut not by human hands. Christ is this Stone.

Read these two chapters carefully for more insight on this subject.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: I usually do not watch TV. Sometimes I catch a show on the Discovery channel or watch a movie if I am bored.
For how many hours each day is the TV set on in your household?

This is the third time you've evaded answering a very simple question.

Quote: Anyway, you are only trying to divert attention away from my point, which clearly shows your worldview is seriously flawed.
Yes, we know.

You launch personal attacks against me and my worldview each and every chance you get. You've proven yourself to be a exemplary standard-bearer of the Zionist agenda, and for that you should be given a medal. Congratulations on forgetting that here in America we enjoy the right to free speech, and on doing everything in your power to silence that free speech every chance you get (whenever the free speech does not align w/ your narrow ideology).

Thomas Jefferson would be proud of you indeed.. :tu: :roll:

Anything else you wish to tell us about my flawed worldview? Facts and statistics would be much preferred over slander and libel, btw..