Political Crossfire Forums

[Prole]

I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

[feederband]

1 in 3 that don't sound right... :!?:

[perdidochas]

Prole wrote: I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

I think most Catholics are merely sad about miscarriages, just like anybody else. I'm Catholic, and I have no doubt that the soul of a miscarried child goes to heaven. The Church has no official position on this (nor on what happens to live birth that dies before baptism).

I don't think it's anything particularly Catholic that makes this teacher morose, especially if they have been trying a long time to have a baby.

[perdidochas]

feederband wrote: 1 in 3 that don't sound right... :!?:

That's a little high. From a quick Google search, I think it's probably in the 10-15% range.

[feederband]

perdidochas wrote: feederband wrote: 1 in 3 that don't sound right... :!?:

That's a little high. From a quick Google search, I think it's probably in the 10-15% range.

Wow , I didn't think it was even that high..

[mojo]

I've had my some questions posed to my preist about it. He said that the Catholic Church does believe in a thing called predestination (not to be confused with predeterminism). This states that we believe the baby was chosen by God to go to heaven before he had a chance to sin.

He says that the miscarriage was a way for God to send a message to the mother. This message is positive because it says that the child lives within the womb of the spirit. But it also gives the mother to prove her faith in the eyes of the lord.

I know a woman who has had 5 miscarriages. But because these miscarriages have happened she has become even more involoved with the community of faith. She currently heads up a youth retreat and loves the one son she has more than anyone I know.

[BastionOfSanity]

perdidochas wrote: Prole wrote: I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

I think most Catholics are merely sad about miscarriages, just like anybody else. I'm Catholic, and I have no doubt that the soul of a miscarried child goes to heaven. The Church has no official position on this (nor on what happens to live birth that dies before baptism).



Limbo?

[perdidochas]

BastionOfSanity wrote: perdidochas wrote: Prole wrote: I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

I think most Catholics are merely sad about miscarriages, just like anybody else. I'm Catholic, and I have no doubt that the soul of a miscarried child goes to heaven. The Church has no official position on this (nor on what happens to live birth that dies before baptism).



Limbo?

Not an official position, nor has it ever been official. The Catholic Church has not ruled on the official position of what happens to an infant who dies before being baptized. The thing is, we KNOW that an infant who has been baptized will go to heaven. Also, a parent can baptize an infant in the hospital w/o a priest if necessary. Why not baptize a child?

[Prole]

Thanks, guys. That helped my understanding quite a bit. But I am curious; do not Catholics believe in original sin? And if so, how does that factor in?

Just so you know, perdidochas, this would have been their second child in three years. That doesn't make it any less sad, though.

Also, regarding miscarriage rates, from: http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp
Quote: How Common is Miscarriage?

When considering this question, it is helpful to ask how often pregnancy occurs on average each cycle. Studies looking at very sensitive pregnancy tests suggest that pregnancy will occur in at least 60% of natural cycles in fertile couples.

The risk of miscarriage decreases as pregnancy progresses. It is possible that as many as 50% of pregnancies miscarry before implantation in the womb occurs. Early after implantation, pregnancy loss rate is about 30% (i.e. this is still before a pregnancy is clinically recognised). After a pregnancy may be clinically recognised (between days 35-50), about 25% will end in miscarriage. The risk of miscarriage decreases dramatically after the 8th week as the weeks go by.
So I guess it depends from how far along you want to pick regarding point of miscarriage. I believe that they were fairly far along (I know about the pregnancy, anyway), so that couldn't have made it any easier.

[Izzibeth]

feederband wrote: perdidochas wrote: feederband wrote: 1 in 3 that don't sound right... :!?:

That's a little high. From a quick Google search, I think it's probably in the 10-15% range.

Wow , I didn't think it was even that high..

it may not seem like it's that high because for many women.. they don't know they are pregnant to begin with. miscarriages are painful but sometimes it can just seem like an extremely painful and heavy period or something along those lines. especially if it happens early on in the pregnancy like within the first month or two (which is, when i believe, the majority of them happen).

i've personally known at least three women who have had miscarriages (or what they were almost positive WERE miscarriages). so i would say the 10-15% would be accurate.

[John]

My wife had a miscarriage this year. It's been around a month and 1/2 now since it happened. :(

[Todd D.]

John wrote: My wife had a miscarriage this year. It's been around a month and 1/2 now since it happened. :(
That s*cks man, I'm sorry.

[Lumina]

politicalmojo wrote: I've had my some questions posed to my preist about it. He said that the Catholic Church does believe in a thing called predestination (not to be confused with predeterminism). This states that we believe the baby was chosen by God to go to heaven before he had a chance to sin.

He says that the miscarriage was a way for God to send a message to the mother. This message is positive because it says that the child lives within the womb of the spirit. But it also gives the mother to prove her faith in the eyes of the lord.

I know a woman who has had 5 miscarriages. But because these miscarriages have happened she has become even more involoved with the community of faith. She currently heads up a youth retreat and loves the one son she has more than anyone I know.

I'm horrified by the idea of a God who sends messages through miscarriages.

What so many people who haven't lost a child themselves don't realize is that couples that suffer a miscarriage are bereaved parents who very often grieve the way other bereaved parents do...without nearly as much emotional support from friends/family/community.

Some typical responses to a miscarriage: "Be grateful you can have more children" (as if human beings are interchangeable) or "What a blessing. It would've been born a monster, you know."

[Lumina]

John wrote: My wife had a miscarriage this year. It's been around a month and 1/2 now since it happened. :(

I am so terribly sorry for your loss.

[Gilbert1908]

Prole wrote: I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

How long had the woman been pregnant? how long had they been trying? How many children do they have? Is this her first pregnancy?

To attribute his sadness only to his Catholicism is a convenient but simplistic conclusion.

Since most couples marry with the intent and hope of creating a loving family and since the medical start of a human life is indespustibly conception, your teacher's reaction is both spirtually and logically understandable.

[Plodder]

Quote: I've had my some questions posed to my preist about it. He said that the Catholic Church does believe in a thing called predestination (not to be confused with predeterminism). This states that we believe the baby was chosen by God to go to heaven before he had a chance to sin.

He says that the miscarriage was a way for God to send a message to the mother. This message is positive because it says that the child lives within the womb of the spirit. But it also gives the mother to prove her faith in the eyes of the lord.

I know a woman who has had 5 miscarriages. But because these miscarriages have happened she has become even more involoved with the community of faith. She currently heads up a youth retreat and loves the one son she has more than anyone I know. whoa, not a catholic priest. Tej church has no dogma on predestination. Basically a miscarried baby or a birth without baptism is a great mystery. Some theologians have theorized that maybe they goto limbo, others say that they got heaven. Im not sure. Quote: My wife had a miscarriage this year. It's been around a month and 1/2 now since it happened. yes my mother had 3. I understand. Quote: But I am curious; do not Catholics believe in original sin? belive in it? HA! its a big part of the faith. Original sin Is what prevented us from gettiing into heaven. It is washed away at baptism but the efeect of temptstion remains. Quote: Also, a parent can baptize an infant in the hospital w/o a priest if necessary. Why not baptize a child? yes baptism can be administered in an emergency by anyone. I mean ANYONE.

[perdidochas]

Plodder wrote: Quote: I've had my some questions posed to my preist about it. He said that the Catholic Church does believe in a thing called predestination (not to be confused with predeterminism). This states that we believe the baby was chosen by God to go to heaven before he had a chance to sin.

He says that the miscarriage was a way for God to send a message to the mother. This message is positive because it says that the child lives within the womb of the spirit. But it also gives the mother to prove her faith in the eyes of the lord.

I know a woman who has had 5 miscarriages. But because these miscarriages have happened she has become even more involoved with the community of faith. She currently heads up a youth retreat and loves the one son she has more than anyone I know. whoa, not a catholic priest. Tej church has no dogma on predestination. Basically a miscarried baby or a birth without baptism is a great mystery. Some theologians have theorized that maybe they goto limbo, others say that they got heaven. Im not sure. Quote: My wife had a miscarriage this year. It's been around a month and 1/2 now since it happened. yes my mother had 3. I understand. Quote: But I am curious; do not Catholics believe in original sin? belive in it? HA! its a big part of the faith. Original sin Is what prevented us from gettiing into heaven. It is washed away at baptism but the efeect of temptstion remains. Quote: Also, a parent can baptize an infant in the hospital w/o a priest if necessary. Why not baptize a child? yes baptism can be administered in an emergency by anyone. I mean ANYONE.

yes, even a non-Christian can baptize a baby into Christianity in an emergency.

[airo]

Isn't it possible that a soul hasn't even entered the babies body until it's concious and able to make decisions?

To me, that makes more sense then the idea that a soul uselessly remains dorment until a certain time.

[Lumina]

Prole wrote: I found out that a former teacher's wife recently had a miscarriage. Miscarriages happen in something like 1 in 3 pregnancies, and are usually pretty sad, but I understand that this is especially true for (at least some) Catholics, as they strongly believe that it is a person before birth. I was told that his wife give birth to the (dead) child, and that the treated it as if a born child had died, including having a funeral.

I didn't find out about this straight from my teacher, but even a few months later, he seems someone more morose than before. I'm just wondering how Catholics feel about miscarriage, and about if it does (or should) receive any negative stigma, and what exactly Catholics believe happens to the soul of the miscarried child.

I apologize if this seems to be someone centered upon me, but in truth, this is just something I really don't know a lot about either specifically for my teacher or of Catholic beliefs in general, and something I'd like to understand a lot better. Thanks a lot.

I'm confused: Did she miscarry, or did she give birth?

For chose who have hoped for a child, that child's death is grieved for every bit as much as a baby who lived one day or one year or ten years or to adulthood.

Very often, babies' graves are inscribed with "Budded on earth to bloom in heaven." As a practicing Catholic, am confident that these tiny, precious souls are safe with their Father in heaven Who made them and Who loves them.