Political Crossfire Forums

[The Last Gringo]

"Women are your fields; go then into your fields whence you please." (Sura 2:223)

That is the official word from God on one aspect of a man's relationship with a woman. God made a number of declarations (see the Quran) through Muhammad that does not bode well for women living under Islamic law.

The words and deeds of Muhammad, written down in the Hadiths, plus God's declarations in the Quran on the "rights" of women, continue to have a destructive effect on Muslim females throughout the world.

Muhammad is reported as saying in one hadith that "...the majority of people in Hell are women." He also said that he had "...not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you(women)." FN1 He explained that, according to the Quran, the testimony of two women witnesses are equal to that of one man in a court of law. (Sura 2:222) FN2

Sura 4:34 is one that will warm the hearts of women everywhere. "Good women are obedient...As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to bed apart and beat them." FN3

To this day, the proper way to beat a women is still a matter of concern in the Muslim world. Spain's Muslim imam, Mohammed Kamal Mustafa, published a book in the year 2000 which included advice to men on the correct way to beat their wives.

A good Muslim should strike "...only the hands and feet, using a rod that is thin and light so that it does not leave behind scars or bruises on the body." The goal "...should be to cause psychological suffering and not to humiliate or physically abuse his wife." FN4

Another book, by Kemak Guran, says it's alright to beat your wife as long as you "...do not strike the face and only beat them moderately." FN5

Saudi TV has a family hour in which experts discuss family relationships. One episode had a professor and a cleric discussing proper wife beating. The professor was holding up a pool cue, one of several weapons recommended for the task. (Got to do it right)

The most horrifying examples of Muhammad's legacy are the Muslim nations of the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and parts of Nigeria. The former Taliban Islamic government of Afganistan, purveyor of physical torture, rape, and public executions of women for minor infractions, should rate at the top of the list.

Muhammad loved women. He no doubt believed that every man should own at least one. Some of his haram of thirteen were slaves who were captured on raids or jihads. Included was a beautiful Jewish woman whose husband, father, and brother had just been beheaded by Muhammad's men, the result of a successful jihad against the Jews in the Medina area of Saudi Arabia.

Today in the Sudan, Muslims from the north continue to conduct a similar campaign against the Christian/Animist south. As with Muhammad's jihad, the Sudanese Muslims kill the men and take the women and children as slaves to use for sex, torture, or to sell. Slaves are forced to walk north through harsh environments. Those who complain are beaten or killed.

Muhammad, technically a pedophile, set the standard for marrying young girls. He wed his favorite wife Aisha when she was only six. However, he did wait until she was nine before he consummated the marriage. Currently, in Muslim countries under sharia(Islamic law), that is the legal age for women to marry. Muslim men often fly to Southeast Asia to buy young girls from cash-strapped parents.

Under Islamic law, women are separated from men and many jobs are off limits so that women are not placed in compromising positions with men. They cannot apply for a passport or travel without written permission from their husbands or fathers. And under sharia, women are stoned to death for adultery.

In Nigeria, some regional Muslim governments have invoked a form of sharia in which three women who had children out of wedlock were sentenced to death. One verdict has been overturned after worldwide protests. The other two women are supposed to be executed after weaning their babies. The women will be placed in pits up to their waists or necks and stoned to death by Muslim men. The men who impregnated the women have not been charged.

Muhammad set the standard of proof for adultery by a woman when his youngest wife Aisha was rumored to have engaged in some heavy breathing with another man. Muhammad was greatly troubled until God told him that if no one could find four witnesses to verify that the act of adultery took place, then any claim of sexual misconduct was false.

Such a ruling seems absurd to us but, since God was the author, it's obvious he works in very mysterious ways.

Except these days, women who are raped in Muslim countries
can't find four witnesses to the crime. Under Muslim "logic" she must be guilty of fornication or adultery and is punished for being raped. This could mean anything from 100 lashes to the death penalty.

Then there is the insanity of "honor killing." It happens in Muslim countries and recently to a Muslim girl in England. If a girl does anything to dishonor the family (the men of the family), she must be killed.

A case in Jordan occurred after a young girl was raped by an older brother. Another brother had the job of reclaiming the family's honor. He did so by slashing the helpless child's throat. The killer received seven years in prison (unusual, often the killer goes unpunished --example, Pakistan). The brother who raped his sister was not charged.

If you happen to be a Muslim woman and you live under the sharia, you can thank or blame Muhammad. This "most perfect" role model is a guide for the behavior of Muslim men. And Muslim men who do good deeds, like killing unbelievers, go straight to Heaven where they are serviced by plenty of fine looking virgins, a never ending supply.

But what about women? What rewards do they receive for being good, obedient Muslim wives? The Quran doesn't say. Not exactly cause for joy.

Any of you non-Muslim women out there might want to consider Muhammad's (and Islam's) view of women before hooking up with those fun-loving jihadists. Just remember, you can join anytime you want but you can never leave.

NOTES:

1. Robert Spencer, Islam Unveiled, (Encounter books), 2002,p.79
2. Ibid., p.79
3. Ibid., p.79
4. Ibid., p.75
5. Ibid., p.77

[henri]

[quote="The Last Gringo"]"Women are your fields; go then into your fields whence you please." (Sura 2:223)

That is the official word from God on one aspect of a man's relationship with a woman. God made a number of declarations (see the Quran) through Muhammad that does not bode well for women living under Islamic law.

The words and deeds of Muhammad, written down in the Hadiths, plus God's declarations in the Quran on the "rights" of women, continue to have a destructive effect on Muslim females throughout the world.

Muhammad is reported as saying in one hadith that "...the majority of people in Hell are women." He also said that he had "...not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you(women)." FN1 He explained that, according to the Quran, the testimony of two women witnesses are equal to that of one man in a court of law. (Sura 2:222) FN2

Sura 4:34 is one that will warm the hearts of women everywhere. "Good women are obedient...As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to bed apart and beat them." FN3

To this day, the proper way to beat a women is still a matter of concern in the Muslim world. Spain's Muslim imam, Mohammed Kamal Mustafa, published a book in the year 2000 which included advice to men on the correct way to beat their wives.

A good Muslim should strike "...only the hands and feet, using a rod that is thin and light so that it does not leave behind scars or bruises on the body." The goal "...should be to cause psychological suffering and not to humiliate or physically abuse his wife." FN4

Another book, by Kemak Guran, says it's alright to beat your wife as long as you "...do not strike the face and only beat them moderately." FN5

Saudi TV has a family hour in which experts discuss family relationships. One episode had a professor and a cleric discussing proper wife beating. The professor was holding up a pool cue, one of several weapons recommended for the task. (Got to do it right)

The most horrifying examples of Muhammad's legacy are the Muslim nations of the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and parts of Nigeria. The former Taliban Islamic government of Afganistan, purveyor of physical torture, rape, and public executions of women for minor infractions, should rate at the top of the list.

Muhammad loved women. He no doubt believed that every man should own at least one. Some of his haram of thirteen were slaves who were captured on raids or jihads. Included was a beautiful Jewish woman whose husband, father, and brother had just been beheaded by Muhammad's men, the result of a successful jihad against the Jews in the Medina area of Saudi Arabia.

Today in the Sudan, Muslims from the north continue to conduct a similar campaign against the Christian/Animist south. As with Muhammad's jihad, the Sudanese Muslims kill the men and take the women and children as slaves to use for sex, torture, or to sell. Slaves are forced to walk north through harsh environments. Those who complain are beaten or killed.

Muhammad, technically a pedophile, set the standard for marrying young girls. He wed his favorite wife Aisha when she was only six. However, he did wait until she was nine before he consummated the marriage. Currently, in Muslim countries under sharia(Islamic law), that is the legal age for women to marry. Muslim men often fly to Southeast Asia to buy young girls from cash-strapped parents.

Under Islamic law, women are separated from men and many jobs are off limits so that women are not placed in compromising positions with men. They cannot apply for a passport or travel without written permission from their husbands or fathers. And under sharia, women are stoned to death for adultery.

In Nigeria, some regional Muslim governments have invoked a form of sharia in which three women who had children out of wedlock were sentenced to death. One verdict has been overturned after worldwide protests. The other two women are supposed to be executed after weaning their babies. The women will be placed in pits up to their waists or necks and stoned to death by Muslim men. The men who impregnated the women have not been charged.

Muhammad set the standard of proof for adultery by a woman when his youngest wife Aisha was rumored to have engaged in some heavy breathing with another man. Muhammad was greatly troubled until God told him that if no one could find four witnesses to verify that the act of adultery took place, then any claim of sexual misconduct was false.

Such a ruling seems absurd to us but, since God was the author, it's obvious he works in very mysterious ways.

Except these days, women who are raped in Muslim countries
can't find four witnesses to the crime. Under Muslim "logic" she must be guilty of fornication or adultery and is punished for being raped. This could mean anything from 100 lashes to the death penalty.

Then there is the insanity of "honor killing." It happens in Muslim countries and recently to a Muslim girl in England. If a girl does anything to dishonor the family (the men of the family), she must be killed.

A case in Jordan occurred after a young girl was raped by an older brother. Another brother had the job of reclaiming the family's honor. He did so by slashing the helpless child's throat. The killer received seven years in prison (unusual, often the killer goes unpunished --example, Pakistan). The brother who raped his sister was not charged.

If you happen to be a Muslim woman and you live under the sharia, you can thank or blame Muhammad. This "most perfect" role model is a guide for the behavior of Muslim men. And Muslim men who do good deeds, like killing unbelievers, go straight to Heaven where they are serviced by plenty of fine looking virgins, a never ending supply.

But what about women? What rewards do they receive for being good, obedient Muslim wives? The Quran doesn't say. Not exactly cause for joy.

Any of you non-Muslim women out there might want to consider Muhammad's (and Islam's) view of women before hooking up with those fun-loving jihadists. Just remember, you can join anytime you want but you can never leave.

*****

Surah 2:223, is Muhammad's advice for married men.
Jesus had no such advice, he was either gay or impotent. (in those days
viagra was not available)

Any non-muslim women who wants to commit adultery better stay in the USA. Adultery is "way of life" in our good old USA. Better, adultery is part of western modern morality.

In some Arab countries, like Saudi-Arabia or Afghanistan, adultery is punishable by death for either man or woman.

>>Fun-loving jihadists<<
You don't even know what jihad means.

"Honor killings" is more a custom, and has nothing to do with religion.
There are no such killings in Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Malaysia or Indonesia (the largest muslim population in the world) to mention just a couple of countries.

>>The words and deeds of Muhammad, written down in the Hadiths, plus God's declarations in the Quran on the "rights" of women, continue to have a destructive effect on Muslim females throughout the world<<

Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia had/has female Prime-Ministers, Vice President/President.
Our good old USA never had any female Vice-President or President.

Apparently, women "rights" in those muslim countries are better honored than here in our good old USA...God bless America!

Hey Gringo, compadre:

YOU'VE HEARD THE BELL RINGING, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE CLAPPER HANGS !

(better stay with your "Holy" Bible)

[Tepic]

:shock: An almost sensible post from Henri? I can't believe it! Does his brain start working once you take the tinfoil hat off?

[henri]

Tepic wrote: :shock: An almost sensible post from Henri? I can't believe it! Does his brain start working once you take the tinfoil hat off?


Feeling aggravated?

If you can't stand the heat, better get out of the kitchen.

[Tepic]

henri wrote: Feeling aggravated?
No, just surprised. Pleasantly so, to see a logical argument instead of a bunch of quotes.

[henri]

Tepic wrote: henri wrote: Feeling aggravated?
No, just surprised. Pleasantly so, to see a logical argument instead of a bunch of quotes.


Those quotes were put in by our friend "Gringo" and not by me.

Apparently you did not even understand what our "Gringo"'s -pulitzer prize- post is all about.
I don't blame you, it's hard to figger out nonsense.

[nrhy]

Tepic wrote: henri wrote: Feeling aggravated?
No, just surprised. Pleasantly so, to see a logical argument instead of a bunch of quotes.

and what is the problem? It pretty much destroys biased arguments..

good job henri

[Demonic Spoon]

POSTING TOPICS IN ALL CAPS MAKES ME SMRT

[henri]

Demonic Spoon wrote: POSTING TOPICS IN ALL CAPS MAKES ME SMRT


YOU'RE FREE NOT TO READ TOPICS IN ALL CAPS IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, N'EST-CE PAS, MON AMI?

[The Last Gringo]

Henri,

Those are easily verifiable facts I posted which you did not respond to. If you are having trouble understanding them, the following references, including translations from the primary sources, should help.

The Life and Times of Muhammad. Sir John Glubb. Stein and Day, New York. 1970.

Life of Mahomet. Sir William Muir LLD. London, Elder & CO., 15 Waterloo Place. 1877.

The Arab Mind. Raphael Patai. Charles Scribner's Sons. New York. 1973.

The Quran, Translation and Commentary. Abdalla Yousuf Ali.

Islam Unveiled. Robert Spencer. Encounter Books. San Francisco. 2002.

Onward Muslim Soldiers. Robert Spence. Regnery Publishing, Inc. Washington, D.C. 20001. 2003.

I apologize for not responding sooner but I have a lot of commitments and must prioritize my schedule.

Rabbana yiwaffig. Good luck in your search for knowledge.

[henri]

The Last Gringo wrote: Henri,

Those are easily verifiable facts I posted which you did not respond to. If you are having trouble understanding them, the following references, including translations from the primary sources, should help.

The Life and Times of Muhammad. Sir John Glubb. Stein and Day, New York. 1970.

Life of Mahomet. Sir William Muir LLD. London, Elder & CO., 15 Waterloo Place. 1877.

The Arab Mind. Raphael Patai. Charles Scribner's Sons. New York. 1973.

The Quran, Translation and Commentary. Abdalla Yousuf Ali.

Islam Unveiled. Robert Spencer. Encounter Books. San Francisco. 2002.

Onward Muslim Soldiers. Robert Spence. Regnery Publishing, Inc. Washington, D.C. 20001. 2003.

I apologize for not responding sooner but I have a lot of commitments and must prioritize my schedule.

Rabbana yiwaffig. Good luck in your search for knowledge.


*****


[b]Gringo, komasta?

What are you trying to prove with providing all those links/books?

Isn't the topic "Muhammad's legacy to women"?

I think I already addressed this topic. That you don't like my response to your "epistle" is strictly your problem.

Some titles of your "links" indicate that perhaps you don't like the Islam religion.

Well nobody in this forum ask you to join Islam, n'est-ce pas mon ami?

So, what's the beef?

[haouiko]

hi you find one quran surat what about 101 bible contradiction at least


Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)





In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)




How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)




God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)




How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)




How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)




How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)




The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)




When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)




How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)




When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)




How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)




In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)




How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)




Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)




Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

(a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)




How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)




How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)




How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)




How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)




How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)




Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)







How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)




What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)




Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b) No (Joshua 15:63)




Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)




Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)




Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)




Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.




Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a) Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b) Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)




Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a) Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)




How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)




Who was the father of Shelah?

(a) Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b) Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)




Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a) Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b) No(John



Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)




Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a) One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b) Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”




How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)




Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)




When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”




Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a) Yes(Mark6:8)

(b) No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)




Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b) No (Luke 9:9)




Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a) Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b) No (John 1:32,33)




Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a) Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b) No (Matthew 11:2)




According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a) “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b) “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)




When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a) Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b) No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).




The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a) Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b) No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)




Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a) Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b) No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)