Political Crossfire Forums

[AllAmericanMan]

I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


http://earthhopenetwork.net/niger_starving_child.jpg

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

[Revenant]

AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


http://earthhopenetwork.net/niger_starving_child.jpg

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

Grab a snickers!

[AllAmericanMan]

Renevant wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


http://earthhopenetwork.net/niger_starving_child.jpg

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

Grab a snickers!

The point is valid. Ive heard the argument of what would the childs life be like many times here. Americans often forget during the hour of American idol, that most of us have no real idea of what pain and suffering are. Saving lives is more important than guessing what the quality of that life may or may not be.

[Green]

AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this
We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

Good point. 8:)

[WsTxRedRaider06]

Abortion is simply a short term solution, to a much bigger problem. If a woman is poor when she conceives a child, she will still be poor after the abortion. It goes back to eliminating the assumption that abortion is the only way out. I like the pro-life slogan "Eliminate the crisis, not the child."

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this I wonder what this kid in Chicago looked like?
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=News&id=3158509

[whatchawant?]

Quote: Abortion is simply a short term solution, to a much bigger problem. If a woman is poor when she conceives a child, she will still be poor after the abortion. It goes back to eliminating the assumption that abortion is the only way out. I like the pro-life slogan "Eliminate the crisis, not the child."

All people who get them are not poor however and they are an efficient solution to a long term problem. The creation and expense of another human life, that is a fairly long term problem.
Take my situation for instance. Contraception as it sometimes does, failed. If we would have decided to keep the child we would have at the time anyway suffered financially, academically (children involve alot of time and money) thus hampering both our lives. The relationship as they very often do did not last. So now we would have a child with one parent in Japan and the other in California. It made sense then and it makes sense now. I am happy with the decision and after speaking with her some five years after the fact so is she. It was a smart move. I believe in doing something right and if you cannot then do not undertake it.
Science in all its fantastic glory has given us this tool to use we should do just that. I dont think it is an excuse to remove children at your whim but it is a PERSONAL decision and if you feel you cannot function properly, then dont have the child.
Abortions are not just for the impoverished or the drug addicted although I believe that these groups should be encouraged to abort because i feel society is less burdeoned by hoards of neglected unwanted, improperly raised children.
Yes you read that correct, having children should be a privaledge and not a right. They wont let you drive a car without passing a test but any knuckle dragging, drug using miscreant can pop out pups like they are icecream cones. We as a society are left alot of the time, throughout the lifecycle of the person to pay the bill via, childcare, foster homes, group homes, juvenile detention on to state and federal prisons. I am not saying that al these kids end up like this but why take the chance.
You bible thumpers wanna do something for all those poor unborn souls?
Pay for a junkie's vasectomy. It only makes sense and what better way to really get into someones private life holy rollers. Sounds good to me.
And no, I am not flaming. I am open for discussion.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: they are an efficient solution to a long term problem. Where have I heard THAT before....(rhetorical question)

[WsTxRedRaider06]

whatchawant? wrote: Quote: Abortion is simply a short term solution, to a much bigger problem. If a woman is poor when she conceives a child, she will still be poor after the abortion. It goes back to eliminating the assumption that abortion is the only way out. I like the pro-life slogan "Eliminate the crisis, not the child."

All people who get them are not poor however and they are an efficient solution to a long term problem. The creation and expense of another human life, that is a fairly long term problem.
Take my situation for instance. Contraception as it sometimes does, failed. If we would have decided to keep the child we would have at the time anyway suffered financially, academically (children involve alot of time and money) thus hampering both our lives. The relationship as they very often do did not last. So now we would have a child with one parent in Japan and the other in California. It made sense then and it makes sense now. I am happy with the decision and after speaking with her some five years after the fact so is she. It was a smart move. I believe in doing something right and if you cannot then do not undertake it.
Science in all its fantastic glory has given us this tool to use we should do just that. I dont think it is an excuse to remove children at your whim but it is a PERSONAL decision and if you feel you cannot function properly, then dont have the child.
Abortions are not just for the impoverished or the drug addicted although I believe that these groups should be encouraged to abort because i feel society is less burdeoned by hoards of neglected unwanted, improperly raised children.
Yes you read that correct, having children should be a privaledge and not a right. They wont let you drive a car without passing a test but any knuckle dragging, drug using miscreant can pop out pups like they are icecream cones. We as a society are left alot of the time, throughout the lifecycle of the person to pay the bill via, childcare, foster homes, group homes, juvenile detention on to state and federal prisons. I am not saying that al these kids end up like this but why take the chance.
You bible thumpers wanna do something for all those poor unborn souls?
Pay for a junkie's vasectomy. It only makes sense and what better way to really get into someones private life holy rollers. Sounds good to me.
And no, I am not flaming. I am open for discussion.

First of all, since you quoted me, I take it you were directing your comments towards me. So before you go throwing around words such as "Bible thumper" and "Holy Roller", please go back through this board and point me to where I have "Thumped the Bible" in stating my opinion and views on abortion, other than a thread that called for it, or where my religious views were asked or brought up.

[whatchawant?]

my apologies West Texas I wasnt directing the holy roller/bible thumper comments at you individually. You are right I have no more idea (nor care) about your religious preference than anyone else. Understand though sir that comment was not thrown at you.

[AllAmericanMan]

Im an atheist so naturally I dont thump the bible.

[islandhopper]

Renevant wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


http://earthhopenetwork.net/niger_starving_child.jpg

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

Grab a snickers!

The problem I have with your last statement is the use of the words "we" and "our". When it comes to abortion, it is the words "she" and "hers" that are relevant. It is a personal decision and you can never generalize the circumstances from which that personal decision is made.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

whatchawant? wrote: my apologies West Texas I wasnt directing the holy roller/bible thumper comments at you individually. You are right I have no more idea (nor care) about your religious preference than anyone else. Understand though sir that comment was not thrown at you.

No harm no foul. My appologies for my assumption. Certain others throw things like that around all the time, so excuse me for taking yours as the same.

[AllAmericanMan]

islandhopper wrote: Renevant wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


http://earthhopenetwork.net/niger_starving_child.jpg

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

Grab a snickers!

The problem I have with your last statement is the use of the words "we" and "our". When it comes to abortion, it is the words "she" and "hers" that are relevant. It is a personal decision and you can never generalize the circumstances from which that personal decision is made. Im refering to the issue on a national level as this is a debate about its legality. The issue of its legality effects every one of us, especially the unborn.

[zelda]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Saving lives is more important than guessing what the quality of that life may or may not be.
it's all about quantity,isn't it?... in my country i can still see the effects of such a politics where quantity was no1:
*thousands of orphanages with extremely poor living conditions ( many children starve to death or die sick of the most horrifing diseases possible because NO ONE cares about them)
*after turning 18, they are forced to leave these orphanages and go on the streets to beg, steal or kill to survive ( many of them go to jail or die on the streets and in the canals in extremely miserable conditions and NO ONE cares about them)
*many are victims of human traffic ( organs and prostitution), pedophilia, abuse and guess what...? NO ONE cares about them.

so saving lives you say....what for?

[~*Alex*~]

AllAmericanMan wrote: I can assure you here in America no such child would grow to look like this


We are the wealthiest nation on the planet argueably and have no justification to kill the unborn in order to make our lives easier.

There is no "We" involved in creating a child, and the potential mother is the one that's stuck carrying the zygote/embryo/fetus so she gets the final say on it's fate.

It's MY body, I am NOT communal property.

Could care less about your belief system as it's relevance ended long before the interior of MY uterus.

[AllAmericanMan]

zelda wrote: AllAmericanMan wrote: Saving lives is more important than guessing what the quality of that life may or may not be.
it's all about quantity,isn't it?... in my country i can still see the effects of such a politics where quantity was no1:
*thousands of orphanages with extremely poor living conditions ( many children starve to death or die sick of the most horrifing diseases possible because NO ONE cares about them)
*after turning 18, they are forced to leave these orphanages and go on the streets to beg, steal or kill to survive ( many of them go to jail or die on the streets and in the canals in extremely miserable conditions and NO ONE cares about them)
*many are victims of human traffic ( organs and prostitution), pedophilia, abuse and guess what...? NO ONE cares about them.

so saving lives you say....what for?

The key is to prevent unwanted pregnancies not end them.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: It's MY body, I am NOT communal property.
Sorry I dont buy that. You used your body to procreate. If conception occurs, you have created a new life that is not part of your body. It is in its natural habitat until it can survive out here a long with the rest of us with our parents care. Nature has decided women should carry this burden, and Im not going to say its fair. However, you do have some responsibility in the situation. Every pregnancy is unique and produces unique individuals that are different from the result of any other pregnancy. Aborting one of these pregnancies results in the death of immature and innocent human life. We must find ways to prevent these from happening to anyone who is not yet born.

[~*Alex*~]

[quote="AllAmericanMan] Nature has decided women should carry this burden, and Im not going to say its fair.
[/quote]

Nature may have defined the natural process, but that doesn't mean I'm bound by it, women have choices. WE control our destiny, not biology, not chance, not religion, not the community, WE do.

Life is as fair as you make it, you can choose to be a victim of whatever life tosses your way, or you can choose to be master/mistress of your own destiny.


Quote:
However, you do have some responsibility in the situation. Every pregnancy is unique and produces unique individuals that are different from the result of any other pregnancy. Aborting one of these pregnancies results in the death of immature and innocent human life.

That's your personal belief, some people share them, others do not.

As we do not demand that people donate blood or organs that would undeniably save the lives of people who are unquestioningly a sentient being, pro-lifers can not demand that women carry pregnancies to term for the benefit of something that is not legally a person.

Quote:
We must find ways to prevent these from happening to anyone who is not yet born.

Again you choose the unborn over the women, I choose the women over the zygote/embryo/fetus.

As you yourself said, life is not fair. Never was, never will be.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: That's your personal belief, some people share them, others do not.
How is it a personal belief and not fact?
Plese demonstrate at what point human life begins.