Political Crossfire Forums

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject:

Omega1 wrote: Quote: Ok obviously God and Santa Claus are two completely different things. The difference is that when my dad told me about santa claus, he didnt honestly believe he existed. But he does honestly believe God exists when he told me that. Why? Becuase his father told him, and so did his father, and so on all the way up to the people who actually witnessed jesus perform miracles and whatnot.

People can make up s**t too. Hey, people honestly believe Allah.

Quote: Man i swear some of you guys on this forum are really dense.

What are you smoking?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

I love how none of you actually had an intellectual rebuttal or a real argument other than "were just plain dumb" and "what are you smoking".
Omega1 wrote: People can make up s**t too. Hey, people honestly believe Allah.

People who believe in Allah are misled and ill-informed. Im not going to sit here and list all the reasons why islam is a false religion b/c i have better things to do and that isnt the point of the forum. But, when you said "people can make s**t up", why would people randomly make up jesus performing miracles and saying he was God's son, etc. and then tell their future generations about it for no reason?

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

Quote: why would people randomly make up jesus performing miracles and saying he was God's son, etc. and then tell their future generations about it for no reason?

Why would Mohammad lie? Why would Joseph Smith lie?

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I love how none of you actually had an intellectual rebuttal or a real argument other than "were just plain dumb" and "what are you smoking".
Omega1 wrote: People can make up s**t too. Hey, people honestly believe Allah.

People who believe in Allah are misled and ill-informed. Im not going to sit here and list all the reasons why islam is a false religion b/c i have better things to do and that isnt the point of the forum. But, when you said "people can make s**t up", why would people randomly make up jesus performing miracles and saying he was God's son, etc. and then tell their future generations about it for no reason?

Why would they lie- cause life s*cked back then....They needed hope even though false hope it was hope.. As far as telling future generations it was forced fed to them as a control purpose ...Not really used that way now but still forced fed to people as real when there is know proof...Its just a belief...If not it would not be called a belief...

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Omega1 wrote: Why would Mohammad lie? Why would Joseph Smith lie?

They lied because they wanted power. But how can Jesus fake miracles?

feederband wrote: Why would they lie- cause life s*cked back then....They needed hope even though false hope it was hope.. As far as telling future generations it was forced fed to them as a control purpose ...Not really used that way now but still forced fed to people as real when there is know proof...Its just a belief...If not it would not be called a belief...

Let me get this straight...
1. life s*cked back then
2. they needed hope
3. therefore they just made up Jesus performing miracles and told their kids about it! yay

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject:

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I love how none of you actually had an intellectual rebuttal or a real argument other than "were just plain dumb" and "what are you smoking".
Omega1 wrote: People can make up s**t too. Hey, people honestly believe Allah.

People who believe in Allah are misled and ill-informed. Im not going to sit here and list all the reasons why islam is a false religion b/c i have better things to do and that isnt the point of the forum. But, when you said "people can make s**t up", why would people randomly make up jesus performing miracles and saying he was God's son, etc. and then tell their future generations about it for no reason?

Misled and ill-informed. Hmmmm, let's see......that description could just as easily fit any christian bible thumping zealot as well, could'nt it?

If not, explain why, or don't accuse followers of other religions of being misguided.

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject:

dtwizzy2k5 wrote:

Let me get this straight...
1. life s*cked back then
2. they needed hope
3. therefore they just made up Jesus performing miracles and told their kids about it! yay

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Well, don't forget the fact they were mostly completely illiterate, backwards, superstitious and narrow-minded, needed ready answers to mysteries that instilled fear in them because they were unknown (again due to illiteracy) and easily brainwashed, manipulated and indoctrinated.

edit; dayumm....that almost sounds scarily enough like half of the present American population! No wonder organized religion still thrives to this day! :lol:

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

Quote: They lied because they wanted power. But how can Jesus fake miracles?

Hindus believe in divine intervention of God and that all of their deities and many of their yogis and saints have performed miracles. And to answer your question, people lie.

By the way, Hinduism has millions of gods and goddesses.

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject:

Omega1 wrote: Quote: They lied because they wanted power. But how can Jesus fake miracles?

Hindus believe in divine intervention of God and that all of their deities and many of their yogis and saints have performed miracles. And to answer your question, people lie.

By the way, Hinduism has millions of gods and goddesses.

I think, of all the world's organized religions, the one that seems to me most about peace and love is Buddhism.

Just look at the Buddha dude. He's a big, jolly guy. He looks like he'd be fun to hang out with, ya know? As opposed to the angry, vengeful gods of christianity, islam, etc. :-D

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6959 Location: Ohio

Quote:
They lied because they wanted power. But how can Jesus fake miracles?

The same way Mohammed could fake ascending into heaven in the middle of a crowded city, perhaps?

And how do you know the people who wrote the bible (many years AFTER jesus' death) didn't just want power, hm?

Gryff1nd0r · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Cambridge, MA

Refrozen Seabass wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: Science, reason, atheism, whatever you want to call it... it is a religion of sorts, and ultimatly, all religions have the goal of knowing the TRUTH (although theistic religions are different because they tend to count on the truth affirming human purpose and meaning, while atheistic religions can accept that the truth affirms human existence to be purposless, meaningless, and directionless).

eh, atheism is not a religion. that would be like saying 'not playing golf' is a hobby...

Hah! Well put. I've been told that atheism is religion before. Your rebuttal is as succinct as any I've seen.

True atheism is a religion, because truth claims are made that cannot be verified. They claim the non-existence of something that is hardly definable and cannot be shown to exist or not exist.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

Gnostic wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote:

Let me get this straight...
1. life s*cked back then
2. they needed hope
3. therefore they just made up Jesus performing miracles and told their kids about it! yay

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Well, don't forget the fact they were mostly completely illiterate, backwards, superstitious and narrow-minded, needed ready answers to mysteries that instilled fear in them because they were unknown (again due to illiteracy) and easily brainwashed, manipulated and indoctrinated.

edit; dayumm....that almost sounds scarily enough like half of the present American population! No wonder organized religion still thrives to this day! :lol: \

:lol:

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Gnostic wrote: Misled and ill-informed. Hmmmm, let's see......that description could just as easily fit any christian bible thumping zealot as well, could'nt it?

If not, explain why, or don't accuse followers of other religions of being misguided.

Ive been explaining how christianity is different throughout this whole thread! jeez, pay attention. What would you like me to do? Sit here and write essays on why every other religion is false? Sorry, but i have a life and no time for that. And you still havent explained why people would lie about seeing jesus perform miracles and then telling their future generations abuot it.

Gnostic wrote: Well, don't forget the fact they were mostly completely illiterate, backwards, superstitious and narrow-minded, needed ready answers to mysteries that instilled fear in them because they were unknown (again due to illiteracy) and easily brainwashed, manipulated and indoctrinated.

Lets see, they were dumb and illiterate therefore they can easily be tricked into seeing somebody walk on water or give sight to the blind? Really? i didnt know that. teach me those magic tricks while ur at it :roll:
Your argument is still weak buddy

Omega1 wrote: Hindus believe in divine intervention of God and that all of their deities and many of their yogis and saints have performed miracles. And to answer your question, people lie.

Yes, but did any of the hindus ever claim to WITNESS these miracles being performed by their gods? And also, did the hindus have anything to gain (i.e power) by making these claims? if so, that explains a lot.

Demonic Spoon wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: They lied because they wanted power. But how can Jesus fake miracles?
The same way Mohammed could fake ascending into heaven in the middle of a crowded city, perhaps?

The muslim empire lied about that for power. they wanted to control their followers to continue their imperial conquest. the muslims had everything to gain from making people follow their false religion.

Quote: And how do you know the people who wrote the bible (many years AFTER jesus' death) didn't just want power, hm?

Maybe because the people who wrote the bible were constantly persecuted, put in jail, and ridiculed for their beliefs at first. And plus, forget the people who wrote the bible, im talking about the witnesses who saw jesus perform miracles and told their future generations about it. they had absolutely nothing to gain from fabricating lies like that as it went against jewish beliefs at the time and again, was the source of ridicule.

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1805

UrielsFyre wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: Science, reason, atheism, whatever you want to call it... it is a religion of sorts, and ultimatly, all religions have the goal of knowing the TRUTH (although theistic religions are different because they tend to count on the truth affirming human purpose and meaning, while atheistic religions can accept that the truth affirms human existence to be purposless, meaningless, and directionless).

eh, atheism is not a religion. that would be like saying 'not playing golf' is a hobby...
But you are playing the religion card. If you cared so little about religion, you wouldn't even been in this forum discussing it.

of course i care about religion. it's one of the biggest problems in the world. All religions, or just specific ones?

every organized religion, at least. people who try to impose their morals and values on others, even though these morals and values are based on absolutely nothing other than blind faith...

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: The muslim empire lied about that for power. they wanted to control their followers to continue their imperial conquest. the muslims had everything to gain from making people follow their false religion.

Same as yours bub...

You know if your god can do all these great miracles why has he not done a thing since then?

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject:

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Gnostic wrote: Misled and ill-informed. Hmmmm, let's see......that description could just as easily fit any christian bible thumping zealot as well, could'nt it?

If not, explain why, or don't accuse followers of other religions of being misguided.

Ive been explaining how christianity is different throughout this whole thread! jeez, pay attention. What would you like me to do? Sit here and write essays on why every other religion is false? Sorry, but i have a life and no time for that. And you still havent explained why people would lie about seeing jesus perform miracles and then telling their future generations abuot it.

Oh, ok. I realize that defending your position may be an inconvenience to you. :? Then how about this. Please try to debunk this website. Please try to show how it is wrong, and how the christian bible is infallible and factually correct, as well as humanitarian and compassionate, if not downright violent, as well as a violator of human and especially women's rights. Please try to show how the christian bible is any different from any other long-winded fairy tale that's considered the "word of god" to the followers of other religions and "holy books"

Gnostic wrote: Well, don't forget the fact they were mostly completely illiterate, backwards, superstitious and narrow-minded, needed ready answers to mysteries that instilled fear in them because they were unknown (again due to illiteracy) and easily brainwashed, manipulated and indoctrinated.

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Lets see, they were dumb and illiterate therefore they can easily be tricked into seeing somebody walk on water or give sight to the blind? Really? i didnt know that. teach me those magic tricks while ur at it :roll:
Your argument is still weak buddy

MY argument is weak?? :lol: :lol: You point to supposed "miracles" like walking on water that supposedly happened 2 thousand years ago and was documented by people who were ferociously superstitious? I imagine that any Houdini type or even a second rate Las Vegas stage magician could have EASILY tricked people back then into believing they were witnessing "miracles". :rotf: You have no proof of these things happening whatsoever beside the ancient scribblings of a few religious zealots. But my argument is weak.
:lol:

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject:

feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: The muslim empire lied about that for power. they wanted to control their followers to continue their imperial conquest. the muslims had everything to gain from making people follow their false religion.

Same as yours bub...

You know if your god can do all these great miracles why has he not done a thing since then?

Could it be that it's alot harder to trick people nowadays? :lol:

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

Gnostic wrote: feederband wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: The muslim empire lied about that for power. they wanted to control their followers to continue their imperial conquest. the muslims had everything to gain from making people follow their false religion.

Same as yours bub...

You know if your god can do all these great miracles why has he not done a thing since then?

Could it be that it's alot harder to trick people nowadays? :lol:

I would say so... :lol:

Sataere · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 226 Location: Ohio

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Actually, I didnt even mention the Bible. Let me see if i can explain this to you... Hundreds of people saw Jesus perform miracles and be resurrected, etc. and then they told their kids about it, who told their kids about it, who told their kids about it ... all the way up to me. Now what does that have to do with the Bible?

Have you ever heard of an old wives tale? People passed down through the generations all of the amazing feats that Paul Bunyan and Daniel Boone 'did'. Sure, Paul Bunyan was a real person, but the tales of his life and acheivements can't be taken as fact. The same thing is true for Jesus. He was a real person, but in no way can you take the legends and stories about him as fact.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6959 Location: Ohio

Quote:
The muslim empire lied about that for power. they wanted to control their followers to continue their imperial conquest. the muslims had everything to gain from making people follow their false religion.

...THe empire itself? What about the people in Jerusalem who SAW Mohammed ascend, and told their kids that, who told their kids, etc.

And the followers THEMSELVES did not want power, but how do you know Jesus didn't? Yeah, he got himself killed, but he also was worshipped by quite a few people.