Political Crossfire Forums

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Refrozen Seabass wrote: If I say "I don't know", what does that prove?

It proves that the atheist explanation for how this universe came about is just as much a leap of faith as belief in God

Refrozen Seabass wrote: I don't know how plumbing works or how they get the caramel inside the Caramilk bar either. So?

Haha the difference between plumbing/candy is that SOMEBODY out there does know how plumbing works or how they get caramel inside Caramilk (wtf is that) bars, but NOBODY knows how the universe was created, so if you dont have a better explanation than God, just stop arguing

Refrozen Seabass wrote: As for where the earth came from, how far back would you like to go? Ultimately, a cloud of interstellar dust. Something perturbed it, it started to rotate, mass started to gather in the middle as it tends to do. Fast forward lots of years, and you get a star and in our case planets out of the deal.

Yeah, so you expect me to believe that this cloud of dust came out of nowhere and coincidentally happens to create an earth and a sun and all the planets, as well as the marvels of nature such as DNA coding, Phi, etc. Please, use your damn head and realize that there must have been an intelligent being behind all of this who designed it all and it couldn't possibly have been a matter of mere coincidence and happening.

Demonic Spoon · Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 6960 Location: Ohio

Quote:
It proves that the atheist explanation for how this universe came about is just as much a leap of faith as belief in God

No, it proves that we are going to wait for some evidence to make a decision.

Quote:
Haha the difference between plumbing/candy is that SOMEBODY out there does know how plumbing works or how they get caramel inside Caramilk (wtf is that) bars, but NOBODY knows how the universe was created, so if you dont have a better explanation than God, just stop arguing

...what? Plumbing and candy are very simple things. Universe creation is not. It's easy to figure out how someone could have done that. Not so much with the universe creation. Besides, God never came up to you, me, or anyone and told us. In fact, he never even showed anyone that he exists.

Quote:
Yeah, so you expect me to believe that this cloud of dust came out of nowhere and coincidentally happens to create an earth and a sun and all the planets, as well as the marvels of nature such as DNA coding, Phi, etc. Please, use your damn head and realize that there must have been an intelligent being behind all of this who designed it all and it couldn't possibly have been a matter of mere coincidence and happening.

...you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Swirling clouds of dust also do not create life. Life MOST LIKELY began out of a chemical mixture...very simple life, that then evolved. Something ou don't understand was that early life did not have DNA.

Æ · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 5506 Location: Taxatraz

Random Evil Guy wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: Science, reason, atheism, whatever you want to call it... it is a religion of sorts, and ultimatly, all religions have the goal of knowing the TRUTH (although theistic religions are different because they tend to count on the truth affirming human purpose and meaning, while atheistic religions can accept that the truth affirms human existence to be purposless, meaningless, and directionless).

eh, atheism is not a religion. that would be like saying 'not playing golf' is a hobby...
There is a difference between doing and not doing, but religion is a 'hobby' for you. If you cared so little about religion, you wouldn't even be in this forum discussing it.

Sataere · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 226 Location: Ohio

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Well for all you atheists out there, i have a question for you since you dont believe in God: How did this universe come about? Where did everyone, including people and this very earth, come from?

It should be interesting to hear the atheists answer this one...

The big bang started the chain of events that created matter as we see it today. I don't know where the initial matter before the big bang came from, and no one really does. But it's ok, because you can't give a reasonable explanation of where 'god' initially came from either. So at this point we're in an equal position of our beliefs. The question you just asked me is simply the question, 'How did the Universe begin?', with a religious bias. The question I asked you was the same exact question, but with an atheist bias. It can't be definitively answered, in either form, and the fact that you even asked the question shows a complete ignorance of this question's basic properties. This is the most basic unanswerable question there is, and it would be very beneficial if, instead of trying to stump atheists such as myself, you considered both sides of the debate on your own. If you did this you would be able to see how futile this question(which I have been asked numerous times) is.

AT THAT POINT, we are equal in our beliefs. But if you take the question a little bit farther, and see what evidence each side has for their explanation, the atheist side prevails. Look at it this way: The atheist side has evidence that the big bang occurred, such as the current expansion of our universe, and the fact that alike elements exist all over. That's a one 'evidence point' for the atheist side. However, the religious side has no evidence for the existence of god, which is their creator. So in the end, when discussing the origin of the Universe, the atheist explanation is more logically founded, 1 to 0.

Was that the interesting answer you were looking for?

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1805

aLienaTeD wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: Science, reason, atheism, whatever you want to call it... it is a religion of sorts, and ultimatly, all religions have the goal of knowing the TRUTH (although theistic religions are different because they tend to count on the truth affirming human purpose and meaning, while atheistic religions can accept that the truth affirms human existence to be purposless, meaningless, and directionless).

eh, atheism is not a religion. that would be like saying 'not playing golf' is a hobby...
But you are playing the religion card. If you cared so little about religion, you wouldn't even been in this forum discussing it.

of course i care about religion. it's one of the biggest problems in the world.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9393

Random Evil Guy wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: Gryff1nd0r wrote: Science, reason, atheism, whatever you want to call it... it is a religion of sorts, and ultimatly, all religions have the goal of knowing the TRUTH (although theistic religions are different because they tend to count on the truth affirming human purpose and meaning, while atheistic religions can accept that the truth affirms human existence to be purposless, meaningless, and directionless).

eh, atheism is not a religion. that would be like saying 'not playing golf' is a hobby...
But you are playing the religion card. If you cared so little about religion, you wouldn't even been in this forum discussing it.

of course i care about religion. it's one of the biggest problems in the world. All religions, or just specific ones?

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Demonic Spoon wrote: No, it proves that we are going to wait for some evidence to make a decision.

We already have evidence. Have you ever heard of anybody named Jesus Christ?

Demonic Spoon wrote: ...what? Plumbing and candy are very simple things. Universe creation is not. It's easy to figure out how someone could have done that. Not so much with the universe creation. Besides, God never came up to you, me, or anyone and told us. In fact, he never even showed anyone that he exists.

God showed all of his prophets that he existed, actually. And once again, have you ever heard of Jesus?

Demonic Spoon wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Yeah, so you expect me to believe that this cloud of dust came out of nowhere and coincidentally happens to create an earth and a sun and all the planets, as well as the marvels of nature such as DNA coding, Phi, etc. Please, use your damn head and realize that there must have been an intelligent being behind all of this who designed it all and it couldn't possibly have been a matter of mere coincidence and happening.
...you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Swirling clouds of dust also do not create life. Life MOST LIKELY began out of a chemical mixture...very simple life, that then evolved. Something ou don't understand was that early life did not have DNA.

First of all, when i was talking about swirling clouds of dust, i was referring to what somebody else said earlier in the thread (i was too lazy to show the quote). So, apparently, HE didnt have any idea what he was talking about.
And second of all, i could still use the same argument by merely replacing "swirling cloud of dust" with "chemical mixture". See, watch:

Yeah, so you expect me to believe that this chemical mixture came out of nowhere and coincidentally happens to create an earth and a sun and all the planets, as well as the marvels of nature such as DNA coding, Phi, etc. Please, use your damn head and realize that there must have been an intelligent being behind all of this who designed it all and it couldn't possibly have been a matter of mere coincidence and happening.

Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Well for all you atheists out there, i have a question for you since you dont believe in God: How did this universe come about? Where did everyone, including people and this very earth, come from?

It should be interesting to hear the atheists answer this one... The big bang started the chain of events that created matter as we see it today. I don't know where the initial matter before the big bang came from, and no one really does. But it's ok, because you can't give a reasonable explanation of where 'god' initially came from either. So at this point we're in an equal position of our beliefs. The question you just asked me is simply the question, 'How did the Universe begin?', with a religious bias. The question I asked you was the same exact question, but with an atheist bias. It can't be definitively answered, in either form, and the fact that you even asked the question shows a complete ignorance of this question's basic properties. This is the most basic unanswerable question there is, and it would be very beneficial if, instead of trying to stump atheists such as myself, you considered both sides of the debate on your own. If you did this you would be able to see how futile this question(which I have been asked numerous times) is.

AT THAT POINT, we are equal in our beliefs. But if you take the question a little bit farther, and see what evidence each side has for their explanation, the atheist side prevails. Look at it this way: The atheist side has evidence that the big bang occurred, such as the current expansion of our universe, and the fact that alike elements exist all over. That's a one 'evidence point' for the atheist side. However, the religious side has no evidence for the existence of god, which is their creator. So in the end, when discussing the origin of the Universe, the atheist explanation is more logically founded, 1 to 0.

Was that the interesting answer you were looking for?

Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God?

Sataere · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 226 Location: Ohio

dtwizzy2k5 wrote:
Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God?

And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9393

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? Let's see....using a CHRISTIAN text to prove CHRISTIAN mythology to NON-CHRISTIANS? Yah, that'll work :roll:

The bible is not an academically reliable source as it is a religious text with contents that can not be validated by outside sources (namely the miracles and resurrection, which is your argument).

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Actually, I didnt even mention the Bible. Let me see if i can explain this to you... Hundreds of people saw Jesus perform miracles and be resurrected, etc. and then they told their kids about it, who told their kids about it, who told their kids about it ... all the way up to me. Now what does that have to do with the Bible?

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Actually, I didnt even mention the Bible. Let me see if i can explain this to you... Hundreds of people saw Jesus perform miracles and be resurrected, etc. and then they told their kids about it, who told their kids about it, who told their kids about it ... all the way up to me. Now what does that have to do with the Bible?

hundreds?

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

feederband wrote: hundreds?

I dont understand what you are getting at, but still nobody has refuted my logic that Jesus performed miracles, people saw it, and told their kids who told their kids etc.

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: I dont understand what you are getting at, but still nobody has refuted my logic that Jesus performed miracles, people saw it, and told their kids who told their kids etc.

The only place where it mentions that hundreds saw Jesus perform miracles is the Bible.

Gnostic · Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject:

Demonic Spoon wrote:

...what? Plumbing and candy are very simple things.

I'm a plumber.

Here's a little plumbing 101 for you.

Crap rolls downhill, and payday's on Friday. :-D

Just remember those two main technicalities, and you got it made from there. :lol:

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: feederband wrote: hundreds?

I dont understand what you are getting at, but still nobody has refuted my logic that Jesus performed miracles, people saw it, and told their kids who told their kids etc.

The only miracle jesus the son of a god did was to let himself get killed...
And the bible is where you get these so called miracles and the people that saw it..

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9393

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Actually, I didnt even mention the Bible. Let me see if i can explain this to you... Hundreds of people saw Jesus perform miracles and be resurrected, etc. and then they told their kids about it, who told their kids about it, who told their kids about it ... all the way up to me. Now what does that have to do with the Bible? My dad once told me a story about a man in a red suit who came down my fireplace once a year and left presents under a tree. Guess that means that it must be true, right?

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

UrielsFyre wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Sataere wrote: dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Why didnt you give us one 'evidence point' for the fact that hundreds of eye-witnesses saw Jesus perform miracles, and that Jesus was resurrected and TOLD US specifically that there is a God? And where are you getting the idea that Jesus did those things? The Bible!? The Bible is a completely unreliable source that can't be accepted as fact, so those pieces of 'evidence' are worthless.

Actually, I didnt even mention the Bible. Let me see if i can explain this to you... Hundreds of people saw Jesus perform miracles and be resurrected, etc. and then they told their kids about it, who told their kids about it, who told their kids about it ... all the way up to me. Now what does that have to do with the Bible? My dad once told me a story about a man in a red suit who came down my fireplace once a year and left presents under a tree. Guess that means that it must be true, right?

Great now you going to tell me santa aint real...? First god now this..!! :lol:

dtwizzy2k5 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 467

UrielsFyre wrote: My dad once told me a story about a man in a red suit who came down my fireplace once a year and left presents under a tree. Guess that means that it must be true, right?

Ok obviously God and Santa Claus are two completely different things. The difference is that when my dad told me about santa claus, he didnt honestly believe he existed. But he does honestly believe God exists when he told me that. Why? Becuase his father told him, and so did his father, and so on all the way up to the people who actually witnessed jesus perform miracles and whatnot. Man i swear some of you guys on this forum are really dense.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4158 Location: Florida

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: My dad once told me a story about a man in a red suit who came down my fireplace once a year and left presents under a tree. Guess that means that it must be true, right?

Ok obviously God and Santa Claus are two completely different things. The difference is that when my dad told me about santa claus, he didnt honestly believe he existed. But he does honestly believe God exists when he told me that. Why? Becuase his father told him, and so did his father, and so on all the way up to the people who actually witnessed jesus perform miracles and whatnot. Man i swear some of you guys on this forum are really dense.

Yeah were just plain dumb aint we?

Omega1 · Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 456

Quote: Ok obviously God and Santa Claus are two completely different things. The difference is that when my dad told me about santa claus, he didnt honestly believe he existed. But he does honestly believe God exists when he told me that. Why? Becuase his father told him, and so did his father, and so on all the way up to the people who actually witnessed jesus perform miracles and whatnot.

People can make up s**t too. Hey, people honestly believe Allah.

Quote: Man i swear some of you guys on this forum are really dense.

What are you smoking?