Political Crossfire Forums

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NeedsREALfreedom wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: How so? In what specific way(s)?

Religion is based on folklore, assumptions, and mob rule. Science is based on questions, research, data, observation and irrefutable fact.
That is sweeping indeed. Science is not irrefutable; there are plenty of assumptions previously made in science that have been later shown to be false. Religion, facts aside, does have redeeming qualities.

[NeedsREALfreedom]

aLienaTeD wrote: Science is not irrefutable; there are plenty of assumptions previously made in science that have been later shown to be false.

Most science(if you'd even call it that) in the old days was just as dogmatic as religion. However, the twentieth century brought about a conventional scientific pursuit that was, for the first time, without dogmatic belief. Science was, for the first time, based on fact. It still is, and now it is unlocking the secrets of the universe. This theocratic backlash we are witnessing now is the product of religion loosing tangible influence on the lives of rational, logically minded people. This is because everyone knows on some level that scientists are no longer liars and magicians.

aLienaTeD wrote: Religion, facts aside, does have redeeming qualities.

I haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[JoeTzu]

A link to the XTC video for Dear God. I heard this song on the radio back in '95. I was still a catholic back then, it made me think, but didn't shake my beliefs. So I obviously don't expect it to change yours. The video is homosexual. But the song brings up some strong points.

I find it comical to prey to god so that your whoever gets better, or that you find a lost item, or some other inane thing in our lives. When there are people all over the world who have it a hell of alot worse than us.

One argument I like to make is... If god has a plan for all of us. What's his plan for still born babies, or millions of children around the world who die as babies or toddlers. Why bring a life into the world to be judged before that life is capable of any discernible actions? Why?


http://www.sugarjar.com/media/45700/


Dear god,
Hope you got the letter,
And I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer,
But all the people that you made in your image,
See them starving on their feet,
cause they don't get enough to eat

From god,
I cant believe in you.

Dear god,
Sorry to disturb you,
But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,
And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street,
cause they cant make opinions meet,
About god,
I cant believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

Dear god,
Don't know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,
And all the people that you made in your image,
Still believing that junk is true.
Well I know it ain't and so do you,
Dear god,
I cant believe in,
I don't believe in,

I wont believe in heaven and hell.
No saints, no sinners,
No devil as well.
No pearly gates, no thorny crown.
You're always letting us humans down.
The wars you bring, the babes you drown.
Those lost at sea and never found,
And its the same the whole world round.
The hurt I see helps to compound,
That the father, son and holy ghost,
Is just somebodies unholy hoax,
And if you're up there you'll perceive,
That my hearts here upon my sleeve.
If there's one thing I don't believe in...

Its you,
Dear god.
www.sugarjar.com/media/45700/

[Gremlin]

Im not sure why atheist are atheist.
Maybe they are not in tune to the spiritual side of existence.

God can not be shown to you, only you can find god.

The best explanation of where my belief is, agnostic.
I dont believe in creation even with the evidence of the red shift. I believe there has always been and there will always be. I dont believe god as in a creator, only that creations are a result of what exists.

None of this has been shown to me, but has been found within the short time ive been in this body.

[sparsely]

aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?
Learn the question, then ask again.

[Gnostic]

aLienaTeD wrote: feederband wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?

I have no need for a god...
Perhaps you don't, but how is that an argument against his existence?

It's not an argument against her existence. :wink:

[Gnostic]

aLienaTeD wrote: NeedsREALfreedom wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: How so? In what specific way(s)?

Religion is based on folklore, assumptions, and mob rule. Science is based on questions, research, data, observation and irrefutable fact.
That is sweeping indeed. Science is not irrefutable; there are plenty of assumptions previously made in science that have been later shown to be false. Religion, facts aside, does have redeeming qualities.

Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

-Ambrose Bierce

[Random Evil Guy]

LetsGetReal wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?

no evidence to support its existance. 2 billion followers is no evidence?

nope.

[Omega1]

You can prove Bible God is imaginary by debunking the Bible.

[Enoch]

aLienaTeD wrote: NeedsREALfreedom wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: How so? In what specific way(s)?

Religion is based on folklore, assumptions, and mob rule. Science is based on questions, research, data, observation and irrefutable fact.
That is sweeping indeed. Science is not irrefutable; there are plenty of assumptions previously made in science that have been later shown to be false. Religion, facts aside, does have redeeming qualities. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

[Johnathan]

UrielsFyre wrote: Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.
They make bad roommates though. One day they got into an argument across the hall from me and all I could hear was this big bang. The cops came and took Religion to the hospital where he was pronounced brain dead. Three days later he snapped out of it and they were back together across the hall ordering pizzas and watching HBO.

Those guys are alright.

[Enoch]

Johnathan wrote: UrielsFyre wrote: Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.
They make bad roommates though. One day they got into an argument across the hall from me and all I could hear was this big bang. The cops came and took Religion to the hospital where he was pronounced brain dead. Three days later he snapped out of it and they were back together across the hall ordering pizzas and watching HBO.

Those guys are alright. That is the worst analogy I have ever read.

[Demonic Spoon]

...

Science and religion ARE mutually exclusive.

Religion is driven on blind faith. Science relies on logical thinking. Science and religion are polar opposites.

[Enoch]

Demonic Spoon wrote: ...

Science and religion ARE mutually exclusive.

Religion is driven on blind faith. Science relies on logical thinking. Science and religion are polar opposites.
No, they are not mutually exclusive. Not everything found in science is equally addressed in religion. I've never known a religion to expound on atoms, astrophysics, or quantum mechanics.

Likewise, not everything found in religion is equally addressed in science. I've never known science to address the idea of morality or spirituality.

In addition, religion is not just "blind faith." There is a logical thought behind many people's reasons to believe in a religious ideal. Just because you don't understand their thinking, or disagree with their conclusions, doesn't mean it is all blind.

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote:
No, they are not mutually exclusive. Not everything found in science is equally addressed in religion. I've never known a religion to expound on atoms, astrophysics, or quantum mechanics.

Likewise, not everything found in religion is equally addressed in science. I've never known science to address the idea of morality or spirituality.

In addition, religion is not just "blind faith." There is a logical thought behind many people's reasons to believe in a religious ideal. Just because you don't understand their thinking, or disagree with their conclusions, doesn't mean it is all blind.

1) That's because morality is subjective. Morality is what a person believes, there is no ultimate, end-all "morality" that applies to everyone. Spirituality is another word for bulls**t. Once again, it's belief in something without any evidence at all.

2) Logical thought? Please explain what "logical thought" brought you to the conclusion that there is an invisible man in the sky?

[Sataere]

aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?

You can't prove or show evidence that he does exist, so there is no reason for anyone to believe that he does.

[feederband]

Sataere wrote: aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?

You can't prove or show evidence that he does exist, so there is no reason for anyone to believe that he does.

BINGO !!!!

[Gnostic]

Religion was invented as a way to control and enforce the laws of the day on the illiterate and superstitious masses, and in order to exploit them for clan warfares and allegiances. It also has the side effect of bolstering one's ego by making them think they are the "chosen ones" while everyone else goes to some "hell", and it serves as a great conscious reliever for those who rape and pillage during the week but faithfully attend church on Sundays. :lol:

[Gryff1nd0r]

aLienaTeD wrote: Why is it that individually you do not believe in God? What is the strongest argument for tossing the idea of (a) God out the window that you can throw at me?

In order to define "atheism", you need to define "God". Historically, athiests have been anyone who rejected the current common conception of God, and often, these "atheists" actually believed in a sort of higher entity, just not the popular one.

Religions are created to suit a certain time and place, and they usually work for a while (the Arabs establish an Islamic empire), and then the world changes, they cling to old religious beliefs, their society crumbles under the pressure of change (Muslims start blowing themselves up and civilians live in constant fear), and after a painful process, the ineffective religion is tossed aside.

There are plenty of reasons to toss aside the current conception of God, which is a personal diety with lots of irrational rules who puts rule-breakers in a firey hell of eternal torment. A Biblical verse (one that most people adhere to unconsiously) says that "You can judge a tree by its fruit", and modern monothiestic religions sprout ugly, sour, poisonous fruit, and they are judged accordingly.

"God" is a very vague term, but I would define God as human-projection onto that which is unknowable in order to make it appear knowable. In this definition, mystical religions like Buddhism do not believe in God at all; the only "Gods" are personal gods, such as the gods of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Greek mythology. In Buddhism, there is really no "God" to deny (although one may deny certain unfounded beliefs, such as reincarnation). But human-projection is most glaringly evident to me in this fact about God: He usually has a penis.

I could get into details, but I think it is pretty obvious after everything I just said why some people, using basic common sense, would reject this conception of a personal God... a personal God is full of contradictions, and the most disturbing fact is that if you believe that a God with free-will created the world, created humans, and then created a firey pit for bad humans to burn for eternity... then God is cruel and sadistic, which are two words relgions never ascribe to God... that's serious contradiction. So the next step is to ask, "Is there positive EVIDENCE for this God, that I should believe in it?"... The answer is plainly "NO".

[Johnathan]

UrielsFyre wrote: That is the worst analogy I have ever read.
Maybe because it was a joke and not an analogy. Get a sense of humor...jesus...