Political Crossfire Forums

[sibbean]

Does anyone have any strong opinions on how to repair damaged American Relations in the Middle East?

It all started after WW2 when the Palestinians were displaced by the UN. This conflict between the two should not effect the USA, but it does. We send over $6 billion in aid to Israel every year, since its establishment over 84 billion US dollars has filled up the Israeli treasury. Per Israeli, that's over $15,000, which is more than the average amount of money made in a year by the majority of Middle Easterners. Can you imagine what kind of message this sends the Arabic world when we give more aid to the most technologically and economically advanced nation in the Middle East than the rest of them combined?

We are alienated by the Arabic world because of our support of Israel and everything it stands for. Only when we renounce the injustices done to the Palestinian people can this relationship be healed.

[Tepic]

Minor historical note - U.S. military aid to Israel pretty much started after 1967 when Israel showed how effective it was militarily. A number of Arab countries were allied with the USSR during the Cold War and Israel was seen as a proxy for the 'West' in that region.

My suggestions?

Find common ground between the Saudi peace plan and the 'Western' peace aims. It's their region; they must have a say in the solutions to their problems.

Give instead of taking. Build universities (in countries that want them) instead of military bases.

And spend money on alternative fuel research. Everyone's gonna need it.

[sibbean]

Tepic wrote: Find common ground between the Saudi peace plan and the 'Western' peace aims. It's their region; they must have a say in the solutions to their problems.

Give instead of taking. Build universities (in countries that want them) instead of military bases.

And spend money on alternative fuel research. Everyone's gonna need it.

I agree, the Arabs must have a say in the solution and it starts with giving the land back to Palestine. As long as Israel remains a proxy of the West the Arabs will feel like we are surrounding them. We are unintentionally alienating them from us. And instead of giving so much foreign aid to Israel, which is already a developed and technologically sophisticated country, the USA should share more with the Middle Eastern countries.

[psholtz]

America should leave the Middle East.

Best way to fix EVERYTHING that's going wrong.

And cease all relations w/ Israel. Cut all foreign aid to Israel. Cut diplomatic ties w/ Israel. Halt all immigration into the U.S. from Israel, etc..

[Duchifas]

psholtz wrote: America should leave the Middle East.

Best way to fix EVERYTHING that's going wrong.

And cease all relations w/ Israel. Cut all foreign aid to Israel. Cut diplomatic ties w/ Israel. Halt all immigration into the U.S. from Israel, etc..

And stop using all Israeli products.

No cherry tomatoes for you, psholtz.

[psholtz]

Duchifas wrote: psholtz wrote: America should leave the Middle East.

Best way to fix EVERYTHING that's going wrong.

And cease all relations w/ Israel. Cut all foreign aid to Israel. Cut diplomatic ties w/ Israel. Halt all immigration into the U.S. from Israel, etc..

And stop using all Israeli products.

No cherry tomatoes for you, psholtz.
I tend to prefer George Washington's maxim of "trade w/ all, and alliances w/ none", so in general I don't have a *serious* problem w/ trade, but if we have to cut off trade as well, just to get the point across to people like you, then so be it.

[henri]

psholtz wrote: America should leave the Middle East.

Best way to fix EVERYTHING that's going wrong.

And cease all relations w/ Israel. Cut all foreign aid to Israel. Cut diplomatic ties w/ Israel. Halt all immigration into the U.S. from Israel, etc..


America is not to leave the Middle East. The oil is to slick.

And America is not to cut relations with Israel, etc.

ISRAEL CONTROLS AMERICA, ask Ariel Sharon.

[psholtz]

henri wrote: psholtz wrote: America should leave the Middle East.

Best way to fix EVERYTHING that's going wrong.

And cease all relations w/ Israel. Cut all foreign aid to Israel. Cut diplomatic ties w/ Israel. Halt all immigration into the U.S. from Israel, etc..


America is not to leave the Middle East. The oil is to slick.

And America is not to cut relations with Israel, etc.

ISRAEL CONTROLS AMERICA, ask Ariel Sharon.
I have no fear whatsoever of a gigantic couch potato whose level of consciousness today is little higher than the vegetable matter that his physical form so closely resembles..


Look Everyone! Here comes Mr. Potato Head!

[sibbean]

Well I didn't know so many people were in support of ending our alliance with Israel. That's good news, maybe one day it will really happen.

And when it does maybe we can start a new era of peace with the Middle East, and all our wars in the name of national security will become obsolete.

[Duchifas]

sibbean wrote: Well I didn't know so many people were in support of ending our alliance with Israel. That's good news, maybe one day it will really happen.

Yeah, you, psholtz, and henri. Lotsa people. :)

The mighty threesome, so to speak.



Israel, beware!

[Jawbreaker Tenderpain]

Repair?

Good luck.

The Zionist regime occupying al-Qods. Killing Palestinians and stealing their human dignity with full US support.

Overthrow of Mossadeq. SAVAK terror. The hated Shah

All of the attempts to kill Ayatollah Khomeini.

Support for the hated Saudi Monarch's.

Support for the hated Mubarak.

Destroying Iraq and killing hundreds of thousands of people in Gulf War I.

15 years of genocidal sanctions against Iraq that cause children to starve to death and result in a total of approx. 1.5 million people's death.

US Secretary of State Madeline Albright's claim that 500,000 Iraqi children starving to death has been "worth it".

Suporting the Taliban.

General degradation of everything Arab/Muslim/Persian etc.

Good luck.

[Muslima]

don't you know that the US government is suffering from obssesive compulsive disorder?

if they didn't interfere in the arbian countries' issues they will get sick and die!

[Jawbreaker Tenderpain]

HA!

"Extreme Raghead Withdrawal Syndrome"

LOL.

[cap'n queasy]

Duchifas wrote: sibbean wrote: Well I didn't know so many people were in support of ending our alliance with Israel. That's good news, maybe one day it will really happen.

Yeah, you, psholtz, and henri. Lotsa people. :)

The mighty threesome, so to speak.



Israel, beware!

:lol: The three musketeers who will destroy ZOG.

[Kane]

Remove any and all military personnel within the region to show the world that we don't need a military presence in order to have oil purchasing capabilities. Honestly though...I don't see it happening any time soon. The interpretation of the West as being evil by so many middle eastern populations and the deep radical movements present in the government structures allow little progression into the foray of educational reform. These governments oppress their populations and then use the West as the scapegoat using our many mistakes in Foreign Policy as support for such claims...

The best thing we can do for the region: Deplete any need for crude oil trade between middle eastern countries thus ending any reliance on any established Theocracy, Monarchy, or Authoritarian Republics.

This would then ideally show the public of these nations what their real problem is...if we can get off Petroleum fast enough that is.

[Duchifas]

Kane wrote: Remove any and all military personnel within the region to show the world that we don't need a military presence in order to have oil purchasing capabilities.

And once the "world" is "shown" that, what do you propose will happen?

Quote: Honestly though...I don't see it happening any time soon. The interpretation of the West as being evil by so many middle eastern populations and the deep radical movements present in the government structures allow little progression into the foray of educational reform. These governments oppress their populations and then use the West as the scapegoat using our many mistakes in Foreign Policy as support for such claims...

Ok, so you agree that the real problem is their desire to oppress people, and the West is only used as a scapegoat.

So why withdraw and show the world? What do you think will happen? Opression will end? They won't be able to find another scapegoat?

Why such naivette?

Quote: The best thing we can do for the region: Deplete any need for crude oil trade between middle eastern countries thus ending any reliance on any established Theocracy, Monarchy, or Authoritarian Republics.

This would then ideally show the public of these nations what their real problem is...if we can get off Petroleum fast enough that is.

Now we're talking! 100%! When these corrupt dictators run out of Western money that flows in for oil, they will have a much harder time being ****.

And that's good for the world.

[henri]

Jawbreaker Tenderpain wrote: Repair?

Good luck.

The Zionist regime occupying al-Qods. Killing Palestinians and stealing their human dignity with full US support.

Overthrow of Mossadeq. SAVAK terror. The hated Shah

All of the attempts to kill Ayatollah Khomeini.

Support for the hated Saudi Monarch's.

Support for the hated Mubarak.

Destroying Iraq and killing hundreds of thousands of people in Gulf War
15 years of genocidal sanctions against Iraq that cause children to starve to death and result in a total of approx. 1.5 million people's death.

US Secretary of State Madeline Albright's claim that 500,000 Iraqi children starving to death has been "worth it".

Suporting the Taliban.

General degradation of everything Arab/Muslim/Persian etc.

Good luck.


*****

ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE ZIONISTS IN THE US OR IN ISRAEL?


Mossadeq had to go because he was about to nationalize Iran's oil.

Reagan sold US weapons to the Ayatollah, so that made Ronny an Assahola. (Remember the contra-affair?)

The hated Saudi Monarch's are Dubya's bossom buddies.
Dubya gave the family of Osame Bin Laden permission to escape the US in special chartered planes a couple of days after 9/11.

Mubarak/Sadat gets about $2.5 Billion a year from Uncle Sam to prevent them from waging war against the Israeli Zionists.
But Israel, since 1947 gets unlimited political, military and above all $6 Billion a year from Uncle Sam so that Mossad could joyously dance and celebrate when photographing the collapse of the WTC on 9/11.

Before any sanctions, Rumsfeld signed official support for Saddam giving him military and financial support in order to defeat Iran.
Before the Gulf War, Dubya's dad split $250 Billion of Persian Gulf Oil kickback money with his buddy Saddam. It was a person to person transaction not a govt. to govt.

Madeleine Albright is a Jew.

"General degradation of everything Arab/Muslim/Persian, etc"
Precisely in line with Zionist Terrorism:
FIRST AND FOREMOST, TERROR IS FOR US PART OF THE POLITICAL WAR APPROPRIATE FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF TODAY, said Yitzhak Shamir.

GOOD LUCK? It's more than good luck. Israel (Zion?) controls America according to Ariel Sharon.

Jimmy Carter said: "To go against the wishes of the Israeli Lobby, is political suicide"
Pat Buchanan said: "The US Congress is Israeli occupied territory"

In my view: "Zionism owns America", n'est-ce pas, mon ami?

[Jawbreaker Tenderpain]

Monsieur tres bien dit et grand!!

[Jawbreaker Tenderpain]

Kane wrote: These governments oppress their populations and then use the West as the scapegoat

Like the hated Saudi Monarch's? They would have been overthrown a long time ago were it not for the US soldiers protecting them.

Or how about US-supported Mubarak? The people you call terrists" are the people whom he imprisons and tortures for opposing his dictatorship.

These leaders blame the West for their problems, is that right?

Can we include US support for the Zionist occupiers as well?

Quote: using our many mistakes in Foreign Policy as support for such claims

"mistakes" like overthrowing Mossadeq. "mistakes" like starving children to death with genocidal sanctions? "mistakes" like supporting an Israel that is in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country, that routinely imprisons and tortures innocent people, that cracks the skulls of young boys with lead for having the nerve to throw stones at the soldiers occupying THEIR LAND, that is right now deliberately starving Palestinian people to death while completely cutting them off from the outside world and seizing still more of their land?


Quote: This would then ideally show the public of these nations what their real problem is.

They know what the "real" problem is.

[Kane]

Jawbreaker Tenderpain wrote: Kane wrote: These governments oppress their populations and then use the West as the scapegoat

Like the hated Saudi Monarch's? They would have been overthrown a long time ago were it not for the US soldiers protecting them.

Or how about US-supported Mubarak? The people you call terrists" are the people whom he imprisons and tortures for opposing his dictatorship.

These leaders blame the West for their problems, is that right?

Can we include US support for the Zionist occupiers as well?

Quote: using our many mistakes in Foreign Policy as support for such claims

"mistakes" like overthrowing Mossadeq. "mistakes" like starving children to death with genocidal sanctions? "mistakes" like supporting an Israel that is in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country, that routinely imprisons and tortures innocent people, that cracks the skulls of young boys with lead for having the nerve to throw stones at the soldiers occupying THEIR LAND, that is right now deliberately starving Palestinian people to death while completely cutting them off from the outside world and seizing still more of their land?


Quote: This would then ideally show the public of these nations what their real problem is.

They know what the "real" problem is.

Where do you live? Your indicative of my exact point...