Political Crossfire Forums

[Hyde]

Gilbert1908 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

I do not seek to make Jesus anything more or less than he was. I believe he was part god & part man, although I don't understand it totally. What I do understand fully is he was a great teacher, he was kind, loving, patient, forgiving, etc. All these things are not, in my opinion, something people have naturally. They are learned, therefore, they need to be taught.
In regards to his life and actions, of course they were important to people who believe. Being a great teacher does not, in my opinion, detract from what his life meant to believers in any way.

Fair enough, my point was simply to point out that IF one views Jesus Christ ONLY as a teacher then they need to resolve how a great teacher can think and claim Himself to be God and not be considered insane. They would need to explain how they would consider a crazy man a great teacher.

Jesus never says hes the son of god.

Why then was he crucified?

Because some crazy Jews thought that he tried to make himself the Son of God and killed him under Jewish law even though he was found not inn.ocentby a Pilate

[Gilbert1908]

thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS DEATH and RESURRECTION.

I do not seek to make Jesus anything more or less than he was. I believe he was part god & part man, although I don't understand it totally. What I do understand fully is he was a great teacher, he was kind, loving, patient, forgiving, etc. All these things are not, in my opinion, something people have naturally. They are learned, therefore, they need to be taught.
In regards to his life and actions, of course they were important to people who believe. Being a great teacher does not, in my opinion, detract from what his life meant to believers in any way.

Fair enough, my point was simply to point out that IF one views Jesus Christ ONLY as a teacher then they need to resolve how a great teacher can think and claim Himself to be God and not be considered insane. They would need to explain how they would consider a crazy man a great teacher.

Jesus never says hes the son of god.

Why then was he crucified?

Pissing the Romans off, by pissing the Sanhedrin off by causing a ruckus in the temple around festival time.

If it was just a simple crime of blashpemy the romans would have gotten involved and he would have been stoned outside jerusalem at the end of passover.

The Romans only crusified people when you caused a problem in terms of stability.

Seriously though, don't get me wrong demons identify him as a son of god other people do also but the charater of Jesus never comes out and states 'I'm the son of god'.

Whether that's the truth of the matter of a literary device used by the gospel writers/E. church tradition comes down to faith.

I agree with you but still not using that sequence of words does not mean He does not make it plain enough to both his followers and those folks who see him as blaspheming as to who and what He is.

Jesus time after time makes it pretty clear who HE is. And the RUCKUS you describe includes the fact that he is accused of claiming to be God.

Here is the most obvious example, one can not deny the use of "I AM" as simply coincidence since the meaning even out of this context would have been stunning, within the context of what He is saying it is worthy of a stoning on the spot.

8:57. The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham?
Dixerunt ergo Iudaei ad eum quinquaginta annos nondum habes et Abraham vidisti

8:58. Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.
Dixit eis Iesus amen amen dico vobis antequam Abraham fieret ego sum

8:59. They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Tulerunt ergo lapides ut iacerent in eum Iesus autem abscondit se et exivit de templo

And clearly he made his point

10:30. I and the Father are one.*
Ego et Pater unum sumus

10:31. The Jews then took up stones to stone him.
Sustulerunt lapides Iudaei ut lapidarent eum

10:32. Jesus answered them: Many good works I have showed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?
Respondit eis Iesus multa opera bona ostendi vobis ex Patre meo propter quod eorum opus me lapidatis

10:33. The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God.
Responderunt ei Iudaei de bono opere non lapidamus te sed de blasphemia et quia tu homo cum sis facis te ipsum Deum

[Hyde]

Gilbert1908 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

I do not seek to make Jesus anything more or less than he was. I believe he was part god & part man, although I don't understand it totally. What I do understand fully is he was a great teacher, he was kind, loving, patient, forgiving, etc. All these things are not, in my opinion, something people have naturally. They are learned, therefore, they need to be taught.
In regards to his life and actions, of course they were important to people who believe. Being a great teacher does not, in my opinion, detract from what his life meant to believers in any way.

Fair enough, my point was simply to point out that IF one views Jesus Christ ONLY as a teacher then they need to resolve how a great teacher can think and claim Himself to be God and not be considered insane. They would need to explain how they would consider a crazy man a great teacher.

Jesus never says hes the son of god.

Why then was he crucified?

Pissing the Romans off, by ing the Sanhedrin off by causing a ruckus in the temple around festival time.

If it was just a simple crime of blashpemy the romans would have gotten involved and he would have been stoned outside jerusalem at the end of passover.

The Romans only crusified people when you caused a problem in terms of stability.

Seriously though, don't get me wrong s identify him as a son of god other people do also but the charater of Jesus never comes out and states 'I'm the son of god'.

Whether that's the truth of the matter of a literary device used by the gospel writers/E. church tradition comes down to faith.

I agree with you but still not using that sequence of words does not mean He does not make it plain enough to both his followers and those folks who see him as blaspheming as to who and what He is.

Jesus time after time makes it pretty clear who HE is. And the RUCKUS you describe includes the fact that he is accused of claiming to be God.

Here is the most obvious example, one can not deny the use of "I AM" as simply coincidence since the meaning even out of this context would have been stunning, within the context of what He is saying it is worthy of a stoning on the spot.


And clearly he made his point

10:30. I and the Father are one.*
Ego et Pater unum sumus

You take this literally. What it means is that Jesus has a high relationship with God and we was helping do his work not that they literlly are one spirit.

[thefranzkafkafront]

Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

I do not seek to make Jesus anything more or less than he was. I believe he was part god & part man, although I don't understand it totally. What I do understand fully is he was a great teacher, he was kind, loving, patient, forgiving, etc. All these things are not, in my opinion, something people have naturally. They are learned, therefore, they need to be taught.
In regards to his life and actions, of course they were important to people who believe. Being a great teacher does not, in my opinion, detract from what his life meant to believers in any way.

Fair enough, my point was simply to point out that IF one views Jesus Christ ONLY as a teacher then they need to resolve how a great teacher can think and claim Himself to be God and not be considered insane. They would need to explain how they would consider a crazy man a great teacher.

Jesus never says hes the son of god.

Why then was he crucified?

Because some crazy Jews thought that he tried to make himself the Son of God and killed him under Jewish law even though he was found not inn.ocentby a Pilate

Punnishment for herecy under jewish law is death by stonning.

Not crusifixion, nethere did the jewish sanhedrin a quizling goverment have the authority to carry out said crusifixion.

[perdidochas]

Hyde wrote: toddytodd wrote:
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.
i dont think it is as much of a miracle as a church that in the beginning would imprison or kill anyone that they thought where heretics or blasphemous. They manged getting people to believe there way of thinking by fright and that belief being passed down over the years from parent to child. And alot of children have the same religious beliefs as their parents. That is kind of sad though seeing how Jesus had a great message but it was sent wrong by church (catholics to be precise).

The beginning of the Church had people being persecuted for being Christian. Christianity spread despite this. Your whole fright theory is a load of hogwash.

In terms of Jesus' message, ask poor people in the Black Belt of Alabama (primarily Baptists) about Catholic Social Services. The primary non-governmental agency providing help to the poor there is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has been imperfect (and continues to do so, however, everything composed of humans is fundamentally imperfect), but they are doing the best that they can.

[mattwa33193]

garyd wrote: The consensus of the eye witnesses and there were hundreds not just jesus and Paul was that He did miraculous things. It is up to you whether you wish to accept the testimony of these various eye witnesses and those who recounted those deeds.

Paul was eyewitness to nothing.

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

[Hyde]

perdidochas wrote: Hyde wrote: toddytodd wrote:
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.
i dont think it is as much of a miracle as a church that in the beginning would imprison or kill anyone that they thought where heretics or blasphemous. They manged getting people to believe there way of thinking by fright and that belief being passed down over the years from parent to child. And alot of children have the same religious beliefs as their parents. That is kind of sad though seeing how Jesus had a great message but it was sent wrong by church (catholics to be precise).

The beginning of the Church had people being persecuted for being Christian. Christianity spread despite this. Your whole fright theory is a load of hogwash.

so that makes persucution and mur.der okay if they were the ones being persucuted and mur.dered first. you can not deny the church killed innoce.nt people because they thought they were heretics. and the heresy charge was even used to get rid of anyone the church saw as a threat to their power. they got people believing everything that came out of the pope so they could do whatever they felt like, prosucute whoever they felt like, and mur.der whoever they felt like.

Quote: In terms of Jesus' message, ask poor people in the Black Belt of Alabama (primarily Baptists) about Catholic Social Services. The primary non-governmental agency providing help to the poor there is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has been imperfect (and continues to do so, however, everything composed of humans is fundamentally imperfect), but they are doing the best that they can.

imperfect? they are worse than imperfect. what kind of church is more worried about gays than their child molesting priests. what kind of church immediatly dismiss any point of view that differs from theirs as heresy and condemns it. if they are doing the best they can like you said, that is really sad that that is their best.

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

I don't know, how do people's words get misinterpreted?

Quote: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Not a claim to divinity unless you really want it to be.

[perdidochas]

Hyde wrote: perdidochas wrote: Hyde wrote: toddytodd wrote:
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.
i dont think it is as much of a miracle as a church that in the beginning would imprison or kill anyone that they thought where heretics or blasphemous. They manged getting people to believe there way of thinking by fright and that belief being passed down over the years from parent to child. And alot of children have the same religious beliefs as their parents. That is kind of sad though seeing how Jesus had a great message but it was sent wrong by church (catholics to be precise).

The beginning of the Church had people being persecuted for being Christian. Christianity spread despite this. Your whole fright theory is a load of hogwash.

so that makes persucution and mur.der okay if they were the ones being persucuted and mur.dered first. you can not deny the church killed innoce.nt people because they thought they were heretics. and the heresy charge was even used to get rid of anyone the church saw as a threat to their power. they got people believing everything that came out of the pope so they could do whatever they felt like, prosucute whoever they felt like, and mur.der whoever they felt like.

Actually, the church killed no one. The church has and has had no authority to punish. Governments have punished people for heresy, but the Church never did. Yes, it's a subtle point, and I truly don't expect an anti-Catholic who's almost foaming at the mouth to understand it.


Hyde wrote: Quote: In terms of Jesus' message, ask poor people in the Black Belt of Alabama (primarily Baptists) about Catholic Social Services. The primary non-governmental agency providing help to the poor there is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has been imperfect (and continues to do so, however, everything composed of humans is fundamentally imperfect), but they are doing the best that they can.

imperfect? they are worse than imperfect. what kind of church is more worried about gays than their child molesting priests. what kind of church immediatly dismiss any point of view that differs from theirs as heresy and condemns it. if they are doing the best they can like you said, that is really sad that that is their best.

The Catholic Church is not more worried about gays than the few child molesting priests--the contention is that few of the "child molesting" priests are technically child molestors, most are involved with male teens, not children. It is thought that most of the "child molesting" priests are gay.

Does this sound like the statement of a church that "immediatly (sp?) dismiss any point of view that differs from theirs as heresy."

From the Catholic Catechism:

Quote:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:


All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332



Hardly sounds like an organization that claims other views are automatically heretical.

As Bishop Sheen once wrote: there are only a handful of Americans who hate the Catholic Church, though there are millions who hate what they think the Church is.

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote:

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

I don't know, how do people's words get misinterpreted?

Quote: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Not a claim to divinity unless you really want it to be.

How did they misinterpret this?

8:51. Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.

8:52. The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever.

8:53. Art thou greater than our father Abraham who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself?

8:54. Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God.

8:55. And you have not known him: but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him and do keep his word.

8:56. Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad.

8:57. The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham?

8:58. Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

8:59. They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.



If he is not saying he is God then why do they believe that is what he is saying and why does he NOT correct them if that is NOT what He meant?

There are many more but here is another how can this be misinterpreted and AGAIN why doen't Jesus correct them instead of basically saying YOU ARE RIGHT.



10:25. Jesus answered them: I speak to you, and you believe not: the works that I do in the name of my Father, they give testimony of me.

10:26. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep.

10:27. My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.

10:28. And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand.

10:29. That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.

10:30. I and the Father are one.

10:31. The Jews then took up stones to stone him.

10:32. Jesus answered them: Many good works I have showed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?

10:33. The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God.

10:34. Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said, you are gods?

10:35. If he called them gods to whom the word of God was spoken; and the scripture cannot be broken:

10:36. Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?

10:37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

10:38. But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.

[Hyde]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

LUKE 18: 19-21
and a certain ruler asked him. stating. Good Master, what shall i do to inherit eternal life. and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God. thou knowest the ten comandments. do not commmit ry. do not kill.do not steal. do not bear false witness. honor thy father and thy mother. and he said. all these things i have kept from my youth up.

I agree with you mattwa. how do you misinterpret things like this. jesus was called good and he said none is good except god. if he believed he was god he would have let the comment go but he goes out of his way to correct the man in calling him good. and if he did say he was god he would be bearing false witness, which, as stated above, he has never done. so i ask you, how ddoes someone misinterpret things like these to the extent of jesus being god.

[mattwa33193]

Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

LUKE 18: 19-21
and a certain ruler asked him. stating. Good Master, what shall i do to inherit eternal life. and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God. thou knowest the ten comandments. do not commmit ry. do not kill.do not steal. do not bear false witness. honor thy father and thy mother. and he said. all these things i have kept from my youth up.

I agree with you mattwa. how do you misinterpret things like this. jesus was called good and he said none is good except god. if he believed he was god he would have let the comment go but he goes out of his way to correct the man in calling him good. and if he did say he was god he would be bearing false witness, which, as stated above, he has never done. so i ask you, how ddoes someone misinterpret things like these to the extent of jesus being god.

Because it's easier to believe that Jesus was divine and therefore set an impossible standard than it is to believe that He was a man who we should emulate.

[mattwa33193]

Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote:

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

I don't know, how do people's words get misinterpreted?

Quote: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Not a claim to divinity unless you really want it to be.

How did they misinterpret this?

8:51. Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.

8:52. The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever.

8:53. Art thou greater than our father Abraham who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself?

8:54. Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God.

8:55. And you have not known him: but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him and do keep his word.

8:56. Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad.

8:57. The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham?

8:58. Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

8:59. They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.



If he is not saying he is God then why do they believe that is what he is saying and why does he NOT correct them if that is NOT what He meant?

There are many more but here is another how can this be misinterpreted and AGAIN why doen't Jesus correct them instead of basically saying YOU ARE RIGHT.



10:25. Jesus answered them: I speak to you, and you believe not: the works that I do in the name of my Father, they give testimony of me.

10:26. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep.

10:27. My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.

10:28. And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand.

10:29. That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.

10:30. I and the Father are one.

10:31. The Jews then took up stones to stone him.

10:32. Jesus answered them: Many good works I have showed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?

10:33. The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God.

10:34. Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said, you are gods?

10:35. If he called them gods to whom the word of God was spoken; and the scripture cannot be broken:

10:36. Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?

10:37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

10:38. But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.

Jesus taught us that if we followed His example we would find eternal glory. That is all any of your quotes have said.

Jesus was the Son of God, just as we are all the Children of God. His example is attainable by all who are willing to try.

[Hyde]

mattwa33193 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

LUKE 18: 19-21
and a certain ruler asked him. stating. Good Master, what shall i do to inherit eternal life. and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God. thou knowest the ten comandments. do not commmit ry. do not kill.do not steal. do not bear false witness. honor thy father and thy mother. and he said. all these things i have kept from my youth up.

I agree with you mattwa. how do you misinterpret things like this. jesus was called good and he said none is good except god. if he believed he was god he would have let the comment go but he goes out of his way to correct the man in calling him good. and if he did say he was god he would be bearing false witness, which, as stated above, he has never done. so i ask you, how ddoes someone misinterpret things like these to the extent of jesus being god.

Because it's easier to believe that Jesus was divine and therefore set an impossible standard than it is to believe that He was a man who we should emulate.

Mattwa, you have the power to read my mind.

[Gilbert1908]

Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

LUKE 18: 19-21
and a certain ruler asked him. stating. Good Master, what shall i do to inherit eternal life. and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God. thou knowest the ten comandments. do not commmit ry. do not kill.do not steal. do not bear false witness. honor thy father and thy mother. and he said. all these things i have kept from my youth up.

I agree with you mattwa. how do you misinterpret things like this. jesus was called good and he said none is good except god. if he believed he was god he would have let the comment go but he goes out of his way to correct the man in calling him good. and if he did say he was god he would be bearing false witness, which, as stated above, he has never done. so i ask you, how ddoes someone misinterpret things like these to the extent of jesus being god.

It is fascinating that you chose that particular chapter of Luke to attempt to make the point of Jesus denying who He is.

If you read that entire chapter of Luke and place His challenge to the "ruler" in context you can see that Jesus is not denying HIS divinity but denying the sincerity of the "ruler's" use of the term "Good". He then proves his point asking the ruler to him put his money where his mouth is?

Just prior to that Jesus is using the parable of the Pharisee and the publican and explaining how they pray;

18:14. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

18:15. And they brought unto him also infants, that he might touch them. Which when the disciples saw, they rebuked them.

18:16. But Jesus, calling them together, said: Suffer children to come to me and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

18:17. Amen, I say to you: Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a child shall not enter into it



It is exactly here that Jesus CHALLENGES the ruler and his belief, he is asking why he would call Him Good and not believe it, and challenges him to prove his belief by giving up that which most important to him which of course the ruler will not. Then IMMEDIATELY after his question to the ruler he describes the single most important event in CHRISTIANITY His Own death and resurrection.



18:18. And a certain ruler asked him, saying: Good master, what shall I do to possess everlasting life?

18:19. And Jesus said to him: Why dost thou call me good? None is good but God alone.

18:20. Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery: Thou shalt not steal: Thou shalt not bear false witness: Honour thy father and mother.

18:21. Who said: All these things have I kept from my youth.

18:22. Which when Jesus had heard, he said to him: Yet one thing is wanting to thee. Sell all whatever thou hast and give to the poor: and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.

18:23. He having heard these things, became sorrowful: for he was very rich.

18:24. And Jesus seeing him become sorrowful, said: How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God:

18:25. For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

18:26. And they that heard it said: Who then can be saved?

18:27. He said to them: The things that are impossible with men are possible with God.

18:28. Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things and have followed thee.

18:29. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left home or parents or brethren or wife or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

18:30. Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

18:31. Then Jesus took unto him the twelve and said to them: Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and all things shall be accomplished which were written by the prophets concerning the Son of man.

18:32. For he shall be delivered to the Gentiles and shall be mocked and scourged and spit upon.

18:33. And after they have scourged him, they will put him to death. And the third day he shall rise again.

18:34. And they understood none of these things, and this word was hid from them: and they understood not the things that were said.


SO TELL ME WHO IS MISINTERPRETING WHAT??????

[Hyde]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: mattwa33193 wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Hyde wrote: Was Jesus a miracle worker or have events been exaggerated or even made up over the years.

I think it depends on what you consider a miracle. Walking on water? A miracle if it did indeed happen (rather it was supernatural or not). People do tend to exaggerate stories, even today. Sometimes on purpose, other times just because they were excited. I think it would be ignorant for us to think this exaggeration didn't happen to some extent, especially with the lack of scientific knowledge/understanding that existed back then.
Personally, I am more concerned about what he taught. Getting people to think about things the way he did as told in the bible is, in of itself, a miracle.

You seek to make Jesus Christ the equivalent of Buddah or Confusius He was not. He was not a teacher He was God Incarnate and He made that clear time after time.

His significance was NOT what he taught his significance wasHis LIFE, HIS and RESURRECTION.

You are contradicting yourself. First you said that his significance was not what he taught but his life. But he spent his life teaching. to say his whole life was pointless and that his only reason for his life was to die and be resurrected is a load of crap. People spend so much time focusing on his dea.th and resurrection they dont focus on the important thing; Jesus's teachings.

My point is that if you view Jesus as ONLY a teacher then you need not study his teachings since you will have lost their true meaning.

Also if you did not believe Jesus was God why would you then respect the teaching of a madman?

No, if I view Jesus as only a teacher it only means that I won't get the same meaning from His words as you do.

Why would I consider Him a madman? Because of how His words have beem misinterpreted by others? Hardly seems fair to blame Him for that.

How does one misinterpret his repeated and purposeful statements which can only be interpreted as Him claiming to be God and were interpreted as such NOT only by those who called him blasphemous but also those who called Him Lord?

He believed it enough not only to predict his own end but to miss opportunity after opportunity to deny it and save his own life? Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is delusional what other explaination is there?

LUKE 18: 19-21
and a certain ruler asked him. stating. Good Master, what shall i do to inherit eternal life. and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God. thou knowest the ten comandments. do not commmit ry. do not kill.do not steal. do not bear false witness. honor thy father and thy mother. and he said. all these things i have kept from my youth up.

I agree with you mattwa. how do you misinterpret things like this. jesus was called good and he said none is good except god. if he believed he was god he would have let the comment go but he goes out of his way to correct the man in calling him good. and if he did say he was god he would be bearing false witness, which, as stated above, he has never done. so i ask you, how ddoes someone misinterpret things like these to the extent of jesus being god.

It is fascinating that you chose that particular chapter of Luke to attempt to make the point of Jesus denying who He is.

If you read that entire chapter of Luke and place His challenge to the "ruler" in context you can see that Jesus is not denying HIS divinity but denying the sincerity of the "ruler's" use of the term "Good". He then proves his point asking the ruler to him put his money where his mouth is?

Just prior to that Jesus is using the parable of the Pharisee and the publican and explaining how they pray;

18:14. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

18:15. And they brought unto him also infants, that he might touch them. Which when the disciples saw, they rebuked them.

18:16. But Jesus, calling them together, said: Suffer children to come to me and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

18:17. Amen, I say to you: Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a child shall not enter into it



It is exactly here that Jesus CHALLENGES the ruler and his belief, he is asking why he would call Him Good and not believe it, and challenges him to prove his belief by giving up that which most important to him which of course the ruler will not. Then IMMEDIATELY after his question to the ruler he describes the single most important event in CHRISTIANITY His Own and resurrection.



18:18. And a certain ruler asked him, saying: Good master, what shall I do to possess everlasting life?

18:19. And Jesus said to him: Why dost thou call me good? None is good but God alone.

18:20. Thou knowest the commandments: Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit ery: Thou shalt not steal: Thou shalt not bear false witness: Honour thy father and mother.

18:21. Who said: All these things have I kept from my youth.

18:22. Which when Jesus had heard, he said to him: Yet one thing is wanting to thee. Sell all whatever thou hast and give to the poor: and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.

18:23. He having heard these things, became sorrowful: for he was very rich.

18:24. And Jesus seeing him become sorrowful, said: How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God:

18:25. For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

18:26. And they that heard it said: Who then can be saved?

18:27. He said to them: The things that are impossible with men are possible with God.

18:28. Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things and have followed thee.

18:29. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left home or parents or brethren or wife or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

18:30. Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

18:31. Then Jesus took unto him the twelve and said to them: Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and all things shall be accomplished which were written by the prophets concerning the Son of man.

18:32. For he shall be delivered to the Gentiles and shall be mocked and scourged and spit upon.

18:33. And after they have scourged him, they will put him to . And the third day he shall rise again.

18:34. And they understood none of these things, and this word was hid from them: and they understood not the things that were said.


SO TELL ME WHO IS MISINTERPRETING WHAT??????


i am sorry to say but you still are :) . jesus said and i quote "and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God." if jesus were to tell the man he was god he would be bearing false witness which would mean he would be breaking one of the ten comandments which is a sin. and further more, why would jesus tell the man that he is not god, and then immediatly contradict himself by testing the man on his belief that he is god?

[Gilbert1908]

Hyde wrote:


i am sorry to say but you still are :) . jesus said and i quote "and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God." if jesus were to tell the man he was god he would be bearing false witness which would mean he would be breaking one of the ten comandments which is a sin. and further more, why would jesus tell the man that he is not god, and then immediatly contradict himself by testing the man on his belief that he is god?

He DID NOT tell the man he was not God, he provided an example relative to the parable of the Pharisee and publican and exposed the disbelief or lack of faith of the questioner.

How does your explanation stack up to mine considering in the very next set of passages of that very same chapter Jesus predicts His own death and RESURRECTION in the context of "and all things shall be accomplished which were written by the prophets concerning the Son of man?"

[Hyde]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Hyde wrote:


i am sorry to say but you still are :) . jesus said and i quote "and jesus said unto him. why callest thou me good? none is good. save one. that is. God." if jesus were to tell the man he was god he would be bearing false witness which would mean he would be breaking one of the ten comandments which is a sin. and further more, why would jesus tell the man that he is not god, and then immediatly contradict himself by testing the man on his belief that he is god?

He DID NOT tell the man he was not God, he provided an example relative to the parable of the Pharisee and publican and exposed the disbelief or lack of faith of the questioner.

How does your explanation stack up to mine considering in the very next set of passages of that very same chapter Jesus predicts His own and RESURRECTION in the context of "and all things shall be accomplished which were written by the prophets concerning the Son of man?"

i never said anything about jesus predicting his own and resurection. i believe that he did. but that does not mean that he is god. it means that he has a close spiritual relashinship with god which IS true. jesus predicting his own and resurection doesnt mean that he is god but rather tells of his high spirituality.