Political Crossfire Forums

daxuesheng · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 633 Location: Florida

Im a christian, was raised christian etc, never have finished reading the bible cover to cover. Iv read many of the books, and lots scattered all over but again never cover to cover.

Where in the bible does it say that god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent? What book, verse etc? Id like to look it up in my bible.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Mark 10:27 for starters.

Genesis 17:1 is another place.

And of course the grandaddy of them all.

Genesis 1:1.

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

First it does not say that God is omnibenevolent. And consider that All mighty = Omnipotent and you'll find dozens of references in any concordance.

daxuesheng · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 633 Location: Florida

how do you reconcile Genesis 11:6 with Mark 10:27?

Is having mulitple languages the only thing that stops us from being capable of doing anything?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

daxuesheng wrote: how do you reconcile Genesis 11:6 with Mark 10:27?

Is having mulitple languages the only thing that stops us from being capable of doing anything?

If anything, I would say that Mark 10:27 shows that the statement Genesis 11:26 is not meant to anyway claim that humans were near omnipotence.

The Hebrew word used there is batsar, which means restrained. I would take that sentence to mean that they would no longer have to restrain themselves from certain evil activities that they might choose to begin to participate in.

Humans are not now, or have ever been omnipotent.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

daxuesheng wrote: Im a christian, was raised christian etc, never have finished reading the bible cover to cover. Iv read many of the books, and lots scattered all over but again never cover to cover.

Where in the bible does it say that god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent? What book, verse etc? Id like to look it up in my bible.

I am unsure of it says specifically and/or verbatim anywhere - it is probably inferred by the writings. At least that's how I see it.
On a side note: Love your avatar!! BSG is a great show - definitely one of the best shows on right now (if not THE best).
I find it very interesting how they built their religion, mirror popular religion, then incorporate the gods, 13 colonies, science and sentience into one very well told story.
Anyone who hasn't seen it should check it out!

eynon · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject:

garyd wrote: First it does not say that God is omnibenevolent. And consider that All mighty = Omnipotent and you'll find dozens of references in any concordance.

says that G-d is love though...close enough for me :-D

Saf · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 377

daxuesheng wrote: how do you reconcile Genesis 11:6 with Mark 10:27?

Is having mulitple languages the only thing that stops us from being capable of doing anything?
I'd say that problems occur when you try to force and re-interpret one religion's book with a new religion's dogma. Christians should all abandon the old testament (no offense to the Jews, the Tanakh is fine on its own) and just stick to, oh, I don't know, what JESUS said?

daxuesheng · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 633 Location: Florida

Saf wrote: daxuesheng wrote: how do you reconcile Genesis 11:6 with Mark 10:27?

Is having mulitple languages the only thing that stops us from being capable of doing anything?
I'd say that problems occur when you try to force and re-interpret one religion's book with a new religion's dogma. Christians should all abandon the old testament (no offense to the Jews, the Tanakh is fine on its own) and just stick to, oh, I don't know, what JESUS said?

Did jesus ever talk about creation? as told in genesis?

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Yes, because Jesus is God... The God in the OT is Jesus...

daxuesheng · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 633 Location: Florida

LetsGetReal wrote: Yes, because Jesus is God... The God in the OT is Jesus...

yes, but if i understand it correctly the old testament is supposed to be mostly disregarded in favor of the new...

garyd · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 691 Location: tulsa, ok

That would be no. We can ignore the dietary laws and the Temple sacrifices as the penultimate sacrifice has already been made, however the rest of it still stands as lessons to be learned and obsrved at the very least.

Lee_p413 · Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 37 Location: Ohio

A good portion of OT principles and mandates are reiterated either in the words of Christ or those of an apostle in the NT. Most of the tradition of the Jewish law is done away with, though.

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 10094

daxuesheng wrote: Im a christian, was raised christian etc, never have finished reading the bible cover to cover. Iv read many of the books, and lots scattered all over but again never cover to cover.

Where in the bible does it say that god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent? What book, verse etc? Id like to look it up in my bible.

I read the Bible from cover to cover once, and btw...that's when I stopped beliving. That god character is not only unreliable...eh's loopy. :)

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Lee_p413 wrote: A good portion of OT principles and mandates are reiterated either in the words of Christ or those of an apostle in the NT. Most of the tradition of the Jewish law is done away with, though.

Not done away with, truly illuminated by Y'shua.

This is what He said about the Law.
Quote: Mt 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Like Gary said. There's no need for sacrifices anymore, because they were only symbolic of Christ's ultimate sacrifice and folks before Messiah came showed their faith that this would happen one day when they sacrificed according to the Law. By the time of Christ this practice had degenerated into a money-making venture which is why Y'shua turned over the tables of folks who were selling sacrificial animals and changing money meant for the temple collection plate for profit. They were misusing the sacrificial system instead of using it to show their faith in YHWH's promises.

And the dietary laws were no longer useful because folks were using them as a method of keeping themselves separate from others instead of bringing them together, by not eating with people who were considered "unclean" etc. Kind of like a form of elitism or something.

Y'shua said that it is not what was in your stomach that defiled a person, but what was in their heart. And using dietary requirements as a way of holding yourself above others shows your heart is defiled and you do not truly love your neighbor.

Y'shua did not abolish the Law, He showed the way it was to be truly followed, not by the letter as a way to look at yourself as better than others (legalism), but in spirit, loving God and loving your neighbors (Faith).

This is the lesson to be learned from the Law, and that's how YHWH set it up, so Messiah could show us the Way. It's an important lesson that one should not forget.

The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

cap'n queasy wrote: Lee_p413 wrote: A good portion of OT principles and mandates are reiterated either in the words of Christ or those of an apostle in the NT. Most of the tradition of the Jewish law is done away with, though.

Not done away with, truly illuminated by Y'shua.

This is what He said about the Law.
Quote: Mt 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Like Gary said. There's no need for sacrifices anymore, because they were only symbolic of Christ's ultimate sacrifice and folks before Messiah came showed their faith that this would happen one day when they sacrificed according to the Law. By the time of Christ this practice had degenerated into a money-making venture which is why Y'shua turned over the tables of folks who were selling sacrificial animals and changing money meant for the temple collection plate for profit. They were misusing the sacrificial system instead of using it to show their faith in YHWH's promises.

And the dietary laws were no longer useful because folks were using them as a method of keeping themselves separate from others instead of bringing them together, by not eating with people who were considered "unclean" etc. Kind of like a form of elitism or something.

Y'shua said that it is not what was in your stomach that defiled a person, but what was in their heart. And using dietary requirements as a way of holding yourself above others shows your heart is defiled and you do not truly love your neighbor.

Y'shua did not abolish the Law, He showed the way it was to be truly followed, not by the letter as a way to look at yourself as better than others (legalism), but in spirit, loving God and loving your neighbors (Faith).

This is the lesson to be learned from the Law, and that's how YHWH set it up, so Messiah could show us the Way. It's an important lesson that one should not forget.

The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.

Quote: The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.
If this is the case (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then why are some parts of the OT 'disregarded' by some modern christians & catholics?

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

daxuesheng wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Yes, because Jesus is God... The God in the OT is Jesus...

yes, but if i understand it correctly the old testament is supposed to be mostly disregarded in favor of the new...
The Levitical law has now been fulfilled, but that doesn't mean we can completely or even mostly disregard the OT in favour of the NT.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

toddytodd wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Lee_p413 wrote: A good portion of OT principles and mandates are reiterated either in the words of Christ or those of an apostle in the NT. Most of the tradition of the Jewish law is done away with, though.

Not done away with, truly illuminated by Y'shua.

This is what He said about the Law.
Quote: Mt 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Like Gary said. There's no need for sacrifices anymore, because they were only symbolic of Christ's ultimate sacrifice and folks before Messiah came showed their faith that this would happen one day when they sacrificed according to the Law. By the time of Christ this practice had degenerated into a money-making venture which is why Y'shua turned over the tables of folks who were selling sacrificial animals and changing money meant for the temple collection plate for profit. They were misusing the sacrificial system instead of using it to show their faith in YHWH's promises.

And the dietary laws were no longer useful because folks were using them as a method of keeping themselves separate from others instead of bringing them together, by not eating with people who were considered "unclean" etc. Kind of like a form of elitism or something.

Y'shua said that it is not what was in your stomach that defiled a person, but what was in their heart. And using dietary requirements as a way of holding yourself above others shows your heart is defiled and you do not truly love your neighbor.

Y'shua did not abolish the Law, He showed the way it was to be truly followed, not by the letter as a way to look at yourself as better than others (legalism), but in spirit, loving God and loving your neighbors (Faith).

This is the lesson to be learned from the Law, and that's how YHWH set it up, so Messiah could show us the Way. It's an important lesson that one should not forget.

The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.

Quote: The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.
If this is the case (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then why are some parts of the OT 'disregarded' by some modern christians & catholics?

I suppose it's the same reason anything is disregarded, these days. Convenience, usually.

Aqualung · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 2260 Location: Washington

cap'n queasy wrote: I suppose it's the same reason anything is disregarded, these days. Convenience, usually.
You mean I'm the one who's supposed to change? God won't change his law because it's inconvenient?! ;)

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

cap'n queasy wrote: toddytodd wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Lee_p413 wrote: A good portion of OT principles and mandates are reiterated either in the words of Christ or those of an apostle in the NT. Most of the tradition of the Jewish law is done away with, though.

Not done away with, truly illuminated by Y'shua.

This is what He said about the Law.
Quote: Mt 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Like Gary said. There's no need for sacrifices anymore, because they were only symbolic of Christ's ultimate sacrifice and folks before Messiah came showed their faith that this would happen one day when they sacrificed according to the Law. By the time of Christ this practice had degenerated into a money-making venture which is why Y'shua turned over the tables of folks who were selling sacrificial animals and changing money meant for the temple collection plate for profit. They were misusing the sacrificial system instead of using it to show their faith in YHWH's promises.

And the dietary laws were no longer useful because folks were using them as a method of keeping themselves separate from others instead of bringing them together, by not eating with people who were considered "unclean" etc. Kind of like a form of elitism or something.

Y'shua said that it is not what was in your stomach that defiled a person, but what was in their heart. And using dietary requirements as a way of holding yourself above others shows your heart is defiled and you do not truly love your neighbor.

Y'shua did not abolish the Law, He showed the way it was to be truly followed, not by the letter as a way to look at yourself as better than others (legalism), but in spirit, loving God and loving your neighbors (Faith).

This is the lesson to be learned from the Law, and that's how YHWH set it up, so Messiah could show us the Way. It's an important lesson that one should not forget.

The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.

Quote: The OT and the NT are all part of the same scripture. They show the same thing.
If this is the case (and I am not saying it is or isn't), then why are some parts of the OT 'disregarded' by some modern christians & catholics?

I suppose it's the same reason anything is disregarded, these days. Convenience, usually.

I have heard there are passages speaking of things that are today considered wrong in the OT (slavery comes to mind). Here are a few verses I have found:
Lev 25, 44-45 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.'
Ex 21:4 'If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.'
2 Sam 9:10 'You and your sons and your servants are to farm the land for him and bring in the crops, so that your master's grandson may be provided for. And Mephibosheth, grandson of your master, will always eat at my table.'
Gen 17:23 'And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.'
How do modern christians work these works of slavery (of which I never say God say slavery was wrong) into their modern lives? If slavery is not indeed wrong, why are most christians (if not all) against it currently?