Political Crossfire Forums

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: Scottish Elections

It loks like just now that Labour will loose power in the next election. The polling and voting trends suggest that the SNP could be the largest party and form a coalition with the Lib Dems. The elction is just udner a year away so things will change but I cant see Labour becoming more popular within the next year if anything they'll probably be less popular. This is quite a shift in Scottish politics. If the SNP even form a coalition we could be seeing an independent Scotland in a few years.

http://election.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=782&id=732592006

Sawney · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 10 Location: South Lanarkshire

antonio62 wrote: It loks like just now that Labour will loose power in the next election. The polling and voting trends suggest that the SNP could be the largest party and form a coalition with the Lib Dems. The elction is just udner a year away so things will change but I cant see Labour becoming more popular within the next year if anything they'll probably be less popular. This is quite a shift in Scottish politics. If the SNP even form a coalition we could be seeing an independent Scotland in a few years.

http://election.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=782&id=732592006

Well, it will certainly be an interesting year. I will expect a quite a vigorous anti-SNP campaign from the Scottish unionist press, especially New Labour's lackey paper, the Daily Record to prevent such an eventuality happening. :(

The fact that they are starting pretty early i.e. that guff that Douglas Alexander was spouting just the other day, it just goes to show how desperate Scottish Labour's position really is. Especially since with their falling out with the Scottish Lib Dems, who do you think they are going to woo as their new allies next year? The Tories, ha! :lol:

Gordon Brown is certainly not going to help their position in Scotland either. Especially if he continues with the crap he is spouting in today’s Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/21/nbrown21.xml

Is it just me or does Brown no come off as a some sort of cringing Scottish politician on the make? Is he trying to appease middle England as being some sort of crypto-Englishman or loyal Brit? :shock:

Does this tosser really thinks the English voters are enough to believe this rubbish? No doubt soon we will be seeing him jumping on the English World cup bandwagon, being pictured on TV, waving a St George Cross flag with great enthusiasm in the dire hope of hiding the terrible fact that he is a Scot. He is certainly going the right way of impressing middle England of his leadership qualities with this pathetic show of grovelling. :roll:

Anyways, as I said, it still looks like being an interesting year in the waiting for Scottish politics. :-D

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:

I honestly don't think labour will be able to form a coalition. People are starting to think that they have been in power to long in Scotland and England haven't done a good job. I think it'll be the SNP and the Lib Dems who'll be the two main party’s. I hope the SNP get in as I'm a fan of independence. One reservation I have with both the Lib Dems and the SNP is there energy policy. They are both anti nuclear whereas it is the only real alternative to fossil fuels.

Nicolas · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 244 Location: Uppsala, Sweden

antonio62 wrote: I honestly don't think labour will be able to form a coalition. People are starting to think that they have been in power to long in Scotland and England haven't done a good job. I think it'll be the SNP and the Lib Dems who'll be the two main party’s. I hope the SNP get in as I'm a fan of independence. One reservation I have with both the Lib Dems and the SNP is there energy policy. They are both anti nuclear whereas it is the only real alternative to fossil fuels.

I'm wondering, do you think that a majority of Scots would vote for independence today? Or are they content with a limited devolution of power and opposed to a break-up of the union?

thundertaker · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject:

Nicolas wrote:

I'm wondering, do you think that a majority of Scots would vote for independence today? Or are they content with a limited devolution of power and opposed to a break-up of the union?

I doubt most of them want independence. Even though they all instinctively support any team that is taking on England. Either out of a sense of shared British nationality, or out of a fear of the consequences of breaking up the union. Most people are inherently conservative, and oppose stuff that has the potential to rock the boat unless things are so drastically bad that change is the only alternative....

mendosan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 2332

Would Scotland actually be able to function as a State on its own? would it have sufficient taxation revenue to keep funding a welfare state? I didnt realize the SNP were actually popular.

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:

Nicolas wrote: antonio62 wrote: I honestly don't think labour will be able to form a coalition. People are starting to think that they have been in power to long in Scotland and England haven't done a good job. I think it'll be the SNP and the Lib Dems who'll be the two main party’s. I hope the SNP get in as I'm a fan of independence. One reservation I have with both the Lib Dems and the SNP is there energy policy. They are both anti nuclear whereas it is the only real alternative to fossil fuels.

I'm wondering, do you think that a majority of Scots would vote for independence today? Or are they content with a limited devolution of power and opposed to a break-up of the union?

I think most would be open to the idea but would have to be given some good reasons to vote for independence.

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject:

mendosan wrote: Would Scotland actually be able to function as a State on its own? would it have sufficient taxation revenue to keep funding a welfare state?

Well we are already of average richer than everyone else in the UK bar the south east plus our oil revenue we would be able to get enough to support the state. We would probably have to reduce spending on our health service as we already spend ridiculous amounts of money on it and its becoming very inefficient and isn't even as good as England’s who spend less.

Quote: I didnt realize the SNP were actually popular.

There actually the second largest party in the parliment already and are second in 36 of labours 40 seats.

mendosan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 2332

Does the scottish parliment have the power to leave the Union?

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

mendosan wrote: Does the scottish parliment have the power to leave the Union?
Nope, but I doubt we'd resist a call for a referendum.

mendosan · Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 2332

Who would vote in the referendum? how would one be defined as scottish?

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject:

mendosan wrote: Who would vote in the referendum? how would one be defined as scottish?

I'm assuming it would be everyone who currently lives in and has lived in Scotland a certain length of time.

thundertaker · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:

What makes you think England would let Scotland have all the oil revenue from the North Sea? Many of the processing facilities are in England, and would inevitably claim a share of the oil.....

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

thundertaker wrote: What makes you think England would let Scotland have all the oil revenue from the North Sea? Many of the processing facilities are in England, and would inevitably claim a share of the oil.....

Almost all to all of the oil would lie in Scottish waters if they draw the sea boundary along the land border which would seem the most sensible way of doing it. Pretty much all of the gas fields would lie in English waters tough. If it came down to it I'm sure we could build a few refineries.

thundertaker · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject:

antonio62 wrote: thundertaker wrote: What makes you think England would let Scotland have all the oil revenue from the North Sea? Many of the processing facilities are in England, and would inevitably claim a share of the oil.....

Almost all to all of the oil would lie in Scottish waters if they draw the sea boundary along the land border which would seem the most sensible way of doing it. Pretty much all of the gas fields would lie in English waters tough. If it came down to it I'm sure we could build a few refineries.

You think sense comes into international politics? Have you seen how much 'sense' has anything to do with anything, particularly were oil is concerned within the last few years?
You are assuming England would play fair. Contrary to the popular national stereotype, England would be just as self-serving and underhand as any other nation when it comes to international diplomacy, and would certainly contrive to have as much of that oil as possible for what remained of the UK by adopting a different system for splitting offshore UK national resources between England and a newly-independent Scotland. And the odds of such an outcome being in Scotland's favour against a country with vastly superior resources and clout are long to say the least.....

antonio62 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject:

thundertaker wrote: antonio62 wrote: thundertaker wrote: What makes you think England would let Scotland have all the oil revenue from the North Sea? Many of the processing facilities are in England, and would inevitably claim a share of the oil.....

Almost all to all of the oil would lie in Scottish waters if they draw the sea boundary along the land border which would seem the most sensible way of doing it. Pretty much all of the gas fields would lie in English waters tough. If it came down to it I'm sure we could build a few refineries.

You think sense comes into international politics? Have you seen how much 'sense' has anything to do with anything, particularly were oil is concerned within the last few years?
You are assuming England would play fair. Contrary to the popular national stereotype, England would be just as self-serving and underhand as any other nation when it comes to international diplomacy, and would certainly contrive to have as much of that oil as possible for what remained of the UK by adopting a different system for splitting offshore UK national resources between England and a newly-independent Scotland. And the odds of such an outcome being in Scotland's favour against a country with vastly superior resources and clout are long to say the least.....

Your right they wouldn't be fair about it but they are going to have some job claiming the oil feilds most of which lie north of Aberdeen and around half north of the Shetlands.

http://www.energyinst.org.uk/education/natural/5.htm

Pebble · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 1143

antonio62 wrote: thundertaker wrote: antonio62 wrote: thundertaker wrote: What makes you think England would let Scotland have all the oil revenue from the North Sea? Many of the processing facilities are in England, and would inevitably claim a share of the oil.....

Almost all to all of the oil would lie in Scottish waters if they draw the sea boundary along the land border which would seem the most sensible way of doing it. Pretty much all of the gas fields would lie in English waters tough. If it came down to it I'm sure we could build a few refineries.

You think sense comes into international politics? Have you seen how much 'sense' has anything to do with anything, particularly were oil is concerned within the last few years?
You are assuming England would play fair. Contrary to the popular national stereotype, England would be just as self-serving and underhand as any other nation when it comes to international diplomacy, and would certainly contrive to have as much of that oil as possible for what remained of the UK by adopting a different system for splitting offshore UK national resources between England and a newly-independent Scotland. And the odds of such an outcome being in Scotland's favour against a country with vastly superior resources and clout are long to say the least.....

Your right they wouldn't be fair about it but they are going to have some job claiming the oil feilds most of which lie north of Aberdeen and around half north of the Shetlands.

http://www.energyinst.org.uk/education/natural/5.htm

Technically I beleve a lot of our oil is stolen from Norway any way. Scruples don't come into oil based politics...something we learned from across the pond.

I imagine any sort of deal on independace for Scotland will have the oil factored in as a concession...

Snow Patrol · Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 2175 Location: Glasgow

thundertaker wrote: Nicolas wrote:

I'm wondering, do you think that a majority of Scots would vote for independence today? Or are they content with a limited devolution of power and opposed to a break-up of the union?

I doubt most of them want independence. Even though they all instinctively support any team that is taking on England. Either out of a sense of shared British nationality, or out of a fear of the consequences of breaking up the union. Most people are inherently conservative, and oppose stuff that has the potential to rock the boat unless things are so drastically bad that change is the only alternative....
This is largely true. I think the vast majority of Scottish people would be quite open to having a referendum on the matter, however a "yes" vote for independence isn't going to happen anytime soon, barring a major shift in opinion anyway.

Kal'thzar · Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 461 Location: Scotland

Not intrested in Independnce, Don't see it as adventagous at all.

antonio62 · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject:

Kal'thzar wrote: Not intrested in Independnce, Don't see it as adventagous at all.

The main arguement for it is that we don't need the same policys as South East of England or Wales. Immigration would be a good example currently Britain as a whole needs not to much but certainly some immigration Scotland on the other hand needs mass immigration. The same thing applys to basically every issue. If you look at the most successful countrys in the world they are all small countrys.