Political Crossfire Forums

Saf · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 377

Simple question. Does the law apply to all of mankind, or only the Chosen People?

As I understood it, it only applies to the Jews themselves. God formed the covenant with them so that they might spread the word about His existence, but the banquet sequence in Isaiah promises salvation (whether on earth or elsewhere) to all the peoples of the world.

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2531

Saf wrote: Simple question. Does the law apply to all of mankind, or only the Chosen People?

As I understood it, it only applies to the Jews themselves. God formed the covenant with them so that they might spread the word about His existence, but the banquet sequence in Isaiah promises salvation (whether on earth or elsewhere) to all the peoples of the world.

There are 613 laws they apply to the chosen people. There are also 7 laws, they apply to all mankind.

You follow the laws that are for you, and you will have reward in the World to Come, whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 22816 Location: California

Mailech wrote: There are also 7 laws, they apply to all mankind.
There is no Scriptural whatsoever basis for these 7 "Noahide" Laws..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 22816 Location: California

Saf wrote: Simple question. Does the law apply to all of mankind, or only the Chosen People?

As I understood it, it only applies to the Jews themselves. God formed the covenant with them so that they might spread the word about His existence, but the banquet sequence in Isaiah promises salvation (whether on earth or elsewhere) to all the peoples of the world.
God's Law applies uniformly and consistently to all people at all places in all times under all conditions. It has never changed, it never will change, and there was never a human Soul that was not subject to it under the same identical terms and conditions as the next human Soul.

There is no such thing as a "chosen" people.

Cicero says it best:

Quote: The true law, is right reason, conformable to the nature of things, constant, eternal, diffused through all, which calls us to duty by commanding, deters us from sin by forbidding; which never loses its influence with the good, nor ever preserves it with the wicked. This law cannot be over- ruled by any other, nor abrogated in whole or in part; nor can we be absolved from it either by the senate or by the people; nor are we to seek any other comment or interpreter of it but himself; nor can there be one law at Rome and another at Athens; one now and another hereafter; but the same eternal immutable law comprehends all nations at all times, under one common master and governor of all -- GOD. He is the inventor, propounder, enactor of this law; and whoever will not obey it must first renounce himself, and throw off the nature of man; by doing which, he will suffer the greatest punishments though he should escape all the other torments which are commonly believed to be prepared for the wicked.

-- Cicero

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2531

psholtz wrote: Mailech wrote: There are also 7 laws, they apply to all mankind.
There is no Scriptural whatsoever basis for these 7 "Noahide" Laws..

Even if you were right in that statement, so what?

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2531

psholtz wrote: Saf wrote: Simple question. Does the law apply to all of mankind, or only the Chosen People?

As I understood it, it only applies to the Jews themselves. God formed the covenant with them so that they might spread the word about His existence, but the banquet sequence in Isaiah promises salvation (whether on earth or elsewhere) to all the peoples of the world.
God's Law applies uniformly and consistently to all people at all places in all times under all conditions. It has never changed, it never will change, and there was never a human Soul that was not subject to it under the same identical terms and conditions as the next human Soul.

There is no such thing as a "chosen" people.

Cicero says it best:

Quote: The true law, is right reason, conformable to the nature of things, constant, eternal, diffused through all, which calls us to duty by commanding, deters us from sin by forbidding; which never loses its influence with the good, nor ever preserves it with the wicked. This law cannot be over- ruled by any other, nor abrogated in whole or in part; nor can we be absolved from it either by the senate or by the people; nor are we to seek any other comment or interpreter of it but himself; nor can there be one law at Rome and another at Athens; one now and another hereafter; but the same eternal immutable law comprehends all nations at all times, under one common master and governor of all -- GOD. He is the inventor, propounder, enactor of this law; and whoever will not obey it must first renounce himself, and throw off the nature of man; by doing which, he will suffer the greatest punishments though he should escape all the other torments which are commonly believed to be prepared for the wicked.

-- Cicero

Saf, I assume that since you wrote this in the Judaism forum, you want the Jewish perspective, what sholtz just gave you was the Sholtzianity perspective.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 22816 Location: California

Mailech wrote: psholtz wrote: Mailech wrote: There are also 7 laws, they apply to all mankind.
There is no Scriptural whatsoever basis for these 7 "Noahide" Laws..

Even if you were right in that statement, so what?
a) I am right
b) It means you (or better said, the rabbins) are just making random stuff up and trying to impose it upon other people in the name of "God".. generally speaking, this is a sin.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 22816 Location: California

Mailech wrote: psholtz wrote: Saf wrote: Simple question. Does the law apply to all of mankind, or only the Chosen People?

As I understood it, it only applies to the Jews themselves. God formed the covenant with them so that they might spread the word about His existence, but the banquet sequence in Isaiah promises salvation (whether on earth or elsewhere) to all the peoples of the world.
God's Law applies uniformly and consistently to all people at all places in all times under all conditions. It has never changed, it never will change, and there was never a human Soul that was not subject to it under the same identical terms and conditions as the next human Soul.

There is no such thing as a "chosen" people.

Cicero says it best:

Quote: The true law, is right reason, conformable to the nature of things, constant, eternal, diffused through all, which calls us to duty by commanding, deters us from sin by forbidding; which never loses its influence with the good, nor ever preserves it with the wicked. This law cannot be over- ruled by any other, nor abrogated in whole or in part; nor can we be absolved from it either by the senate or by the people; nor are we to seek any other comment or interpreter of it but himself; nor can there be one law at Rome and another at Athens; one now and another hereafter; but the same eternal immutable law comprehends all nations at all times, under one common master and governor of all -- GOD. He is the inventor, propounder, enactor of this law; and whoever will not obey it must first renounce himself, and throw off the nature of man; by doing which, he will suffer the greatest punishments though he should escape all the other torments which are commonly believed to be prepared for the wicked.

-- Cicero

Saf, I assume that since you wrote this in the Judaism forum, you want the Jewish perspective, what sholtz just gave you was the Sholtzianity perspective.
What I (and Cicero) gave above is a valid interpretation of Divine Law, and it's the proper manner in which Law was intended to be interpreted by both the Old and New Testament authors.

Seeing as how Cicero was far more articulate and to-the-point than the Biblical authors were, though, I figured it would make more sense to quote him. Far less ambiguity in Cicero than there is in the Bible.

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2531

psholtz wrote: Mailech wrote: psholtz wrote: Mailech wrote: There are also 7 laws, they apply to all mankind.
There is no Scriptural whatsoever basis for these 7 "Noahide" Laws..

Even if you were right in that statement, so what?
a) I am right
b) It means you (or better said, the rabbins) are just making random stuff up and trying to impose it upon other people in the name of "God".. generally speaking, this is a sin.

Just because you reject the oral law does not mean the Rabbis are making stuff up. Take head sholtz, he who denies the word of the Lord will be called to account. :wink:

And besides, like I said, I assume the questioner was curious as to the Jewish perspective not the Shlotzian one.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 22816 Location: California

Mailech wrote: And besides, like I said, I assume the questioner was curious as to the Jewish perspective not the Shlotzian one.
The perspective I gave was the one favored by the writers of the Old Testament.. :wink:

Mailech · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 2531

psholtz wrote: Mailech wrote: And besides, like I said, I assume the questioner was curious as to the Jewish perspective not the Shlotzian one.
The perspective I gave was the one favored by the writers of the Old Testament.. :wink:

I agree with that His Law will never change, and that in a sense you can say the Divine Law applies to all people equally.

But I think that the questioner was refering to the Law as specied in the Torah that was given to the Israelites at Sinai. I think that it is clear from what is written that it is a covenant between G-d and the Israelites and not between G-d and all mankind.