Political Crossfire Forums

satirecafe · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 64 Location: San Francisco

cup2006Sens wrote: satirecafe wrote: Spider wrote: Did the killings of all those jews affect me?

Of course it did, it affected everyone if for no other reason than now we have to live in the world with the shadow of the holocuast laying over us. Yes, this disgusting event has changed the entire world, and the contined conflict in Isreal and palastine is a direct result of these issues.

I agree. you have to think about it this way; albert einstein left europe before the war, and look at everything he ended up accomplishing. imagine how many more albert einsteins would have achieved greatness had hitler not come to power.

Einstein accomplished much more in Europe. He already had won the nobel prize.

The American and Russian missile scientists who designed much of the rockets used for missiles and the space race were significantly composed of European Jews that either fled the holocost to America or were captured by the Soviets at the end of the war.

you're right but nazi germany labeled his work as "jew science" and dismissed it.

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

Quote: Hitlers power was an education to the world (the generation)..of course he will be forgotten some time and it will repeat. Thats what happenes when people get fed up!!
I'd like to point out that Nero *shudder* was just as bad and just as hated and is still remembered and hated.
I shudder at the name.

bob.appleyard · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 7747 Location: Manchestar, innit

Pebble wrote: bob.appleyard wrote: Quote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ?

The major factors influencing Hitler being appointed as chancellor:

LONG TERM
- The apparent ineptitude of the Weimar politicians
- The punitive Versailles Treaty, which the main parties were shouldered with (as well as with the surrender -- the "stab in the back")
- Economic collapse, and the offer of a guiding purpose to poverty-stricken veterans (the SA)
- Clever propaganda by the Nazis

SHORT TERM
- The reaction of the major parties to the sudden rise of populatiry with the Nazis in elections (which was tapering off when Hitler was put in)
- Conspiratorial, "back room" politics, and the belief by the mainstream right-wing that Hitler could be controlled

The establishment of a one-party state with Hitler as Fuhrer rested mostly on the ruthless exploitation of a partly manufactured national crisis.

Pretty good summary.

Add in hyperinflation as detail on the economic crisis, though later stabilised by Streissman it contributed to the rise of Bavarian nationalism. Add in class conflicts, the middle classes feared the rise of communism and saw the Nazis as the way to keep themeslves safe and the manner in which Hitler tended to promise things to both sides of an argument and you'd have most of it. Think i'm leaving some out still...there's definately more detail in there if you need this for a study, SA street violence, the Munich Putsch, Mein Kampf and the change in policy.

I already felt that my lists were getting too long, but thanks for adding those bits in, my answer feels incomplete after that.

rytis · Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: back in USA

rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

bob.appleyard wrote: Quote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ?

The major factors influencing Hitler being appointed as chancellor:

LONG TERM
- The apparent ineptitude of the Weimar politicians
- The punitive Versailles Treaty, which the main parties were shouldered with (as well as with the surrender -- the "stab in the back")
- Economic collapse, and the offer of a guiding purpose to poverty-stricken veterans (the SA)
- Clever propaganda by the Nazis

SHORT TERM
- The reaction of the major parties to the sudden rise of populatiry with the Nazis in elections (which was tapering off when Hitler was put in)
- Conspiratorial, "back room" politics, and the belief by the mainstream right-wing that Hitler could be controlled

The establishment of a one-party state with Hitler as Fuhrer rested mostly on the ruthless exploitation of a partly manufactured national crisis.

Quote: Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ?

The Germans definitely used chemical weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried their hands at biological ones, too. And there is evidence that they were having a go at nukes as well.

Quote: Did Killing all those Jews effect you ?

The mass killing of jewish people, communists, homosexuals, gypsies, homeless people, disabled people etc didn't affect me personally. The mechanical killing of millions is nonetheless abhorrent.

I did enjoy too your very good summary Bob.appleyard, may I add a couple of points?

First of all I really get annoyed when people claim that the German people elected Hitler to power, in fact when he was nominated it was on the back of another election defeat, a slightly worst one than the previous one. Hitler refused such nomination before, thinking he would be elected to power but understood later that it would never happen. The Weimar politicians are to blame.

My second point is that Britain, France and America had more to do with Hitler gaining power than the German people themselves. WW1 cost was huge for Britain and even bigger for France and Germany. America, the banker of WW1 wanted its money back. The arrangement was that France devastated by the war that took place on it's soil, would use the war reparation from Germany to pay America. After the financial crash Germany was ruined and could not pay back anyone, Britain and America eager to have Germany back as an economic partner accepted to postpone the debt, France wanted to do the same and asked that America would accept that the French debt would be postponed as well as it was coming from German coffers too but America refused. France invaded the Ruhr region, French troops following the trauma of the bloodiest war fought in Europe committed the worst atrocities on the German local population, the rest is history.

It would be interesting to put in order of importance what was the reasons Hitler came to power, I believe that my second point was the biggest reason of all.

:-D
:-D

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

Please do visit Germany and entertain the locals with your views on Hitler, you will suddenly find plenty time in your hands to study my kampf in the comfort of your cell.
:-D
:-D

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.
Why you havn't been banned yet I'll never know. If he didn't kill any jews what happened to the 6 million of them that suddenly dissapeared? And the 5 million other "undesirables"? Oh let me guess, its all a massive zionist conspiracy. Using 9/11 as evidence of this conspiracy is tasteless enough, but using the holocaust is enbelievanly stupid.

rytis · Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: back in USA

Lucky Luke wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

Please do visit Germany and entertain the locals with your views on Hitler, you will suddenly find plenty time in your hands to study my kampf in the comfort of your cell.
:-D
:-D
no kidding genius, i wonder if it has anything to do with germany losing a war?

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

rytis wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

Please do visit Germany and entertain the locals with your views on Hitler, you will suddenly find plenty time in your hands to study my kampf in the comfort of your cell.
:-D
:-D
no kidding genius, i wonder if it has anything to do with germany losing a war?

It has, they lost the war started by people just like you.

:-D
:-D

Jehan · Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 3698 Location: Rhode Island

Lucky Luke wrote: rytis wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

Please do visit Germany and entertain the locals with your views on Hitler, you will suddenly find plenty time in your hands to study my kampf in the comfort of your cell.
:-D
:-D
no kidding genius, i wonder if it has anything to do with germany losing a war?

It has, they lost the war started by people just like you.

:-D
:-D

Nice one, LL. Holy crap, did I just complement you?

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

I want proof of that. Right now.

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

I want proof of that. Right now.
You really think there is any?

rytis · Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: back in USA

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

I want proof of that. Right now.

when you want proof, you investigate yourself, when you want BS, you listen to predecided reporting of the media experts and all the witnesses they present to you

Boneman · Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 511

rytis wrote: TheGirlNextDoor wrote: rytis wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?
i know why hitler rose to power, i know why media of the winning side who tells so much about what a monster he was never mentions why he rose to power. i care, i try to explain, most people are as ignorant as pigs, do not want to see the truth, many do, but they do not control media. so it seems like only nutjobs believe hitler wasnt a monster hes made to look. hitler did not kill any jews, and his people killed much less then is said on media, in fact no one killed any jews on purpose in germany it is all a lie. a monster needed to be made who posed a threat to ruling class. adolph hitler. a great leader. power of media. greater. ignorance of people: greater, they pay the price for it.

hitler was not a racist, god bless hitler. america is a racist. hitler wanted a world with no classes, it scared the ruling class. im done in this thread. i dont need to argue with the ignorant.

heil hitler.

I want proof of that. Right now.

when you want proof, you investigate yourself, when you want BS, you listen to predecided reporting of the media experts and all the witnesses they present to you
If you want BS, listen to Rytis. Comon, do you actually expect us to believe any of your drivel without you giving us some sort of evidence? Tell me this Rytis, what heppened to those 11 million people, including my great grandmother?

Wallower · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 7 Location: East Lansdowne

He rose to power by people thinking they could use him.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8681 Location: Petah Tikva

Rytis you are a racist raving son of a b****. I think I can get plenty of agreements on that.

Siberian Fox · Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 118 Location: California

Hitler was publicly accepted... for a time.

Braver · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Why Hitler ?

WorldCitizenMovement wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?

I wont give the whole history, he was fairly and legally appointed chancellor, or head of goverment, on the morning of january 1933, then he just went his own way and redesigned government to his fashions.

He rose to power because he could control the mob. His oratory skills essentially led the Nazi party to prominence from the 1920s until the early 1930s when they became the largest party in government.

Im reading a book called the Nuremburg trials where a psychologist interviewed many of hitlers top administrative officials. I think it was Goering who described Hitler as the type of man who you would walk into his office thinking you were going to convince him from your point of view on a partiular issue and walk back out a minute later convinced otherwise.

Aside from being able to control the mob with his tounge, he realized a few further truths about the mob other than simply screaming at them.

1. The Bigger the lie the more people will believe in it; he realized propaganda was the one principle mechanism (other than his own charisma) to indoctrinate the people with a particular view on reality...which Gobbells, his minister for propaganda and enlightenment so famous for executing.

2. Give the people something to love and something to hate; excessive jingoism and hate for the jews and anything else un-german.

Another significant fact that allowed Hitlers rise to such power was the institutionalization of Germany's military into its economic life. By rebuilding the capacity of the German military machine by leaps and bounds, Hitlers power was essentially solidified.

As a last note, Hitlers rise to power, from the time he was discharged from military sevice in 1919 and began his political ascension until 1933 when he was sworn in as chancellor of Germany, his rise to that state was pretty much fair and democratic (I believe, id have to research that, this is all from memory so correct me if im wrong if there was any anti-semitism used as political tactics during that period between 1919-1933)

I agree with this one. In a time of need, Hitler was the voice of reason to his people, in thier eyes they needed someone like him.

sunwook · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 457

Millions of Jews and a clown died during the Holocaust.

Why the clown?

See! Noone cares about the Jews!

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Braver wrote: WorldCitizenMovement wrote: rdnor wrote: Does anyone know how Hitler really rose to power ? Does anyone care as long as he did not have WMD ? Did Killing all those Jews effect you ? If so , how ?

I wont give the whole history, he was fairly and legally appointed chancellor, or head of goverment, on the morning of january 1933, then he just went his own way and redesigned government to his fashions.

He rose to power because he could control the mob. His oratory skills essentially led the Nazi party to prominence from the 1920s until the early 1930s when they became the largest party in government.

Im reading a book called the Nuremburg trials where a psychologist interviewed many of hitlers top administrative officials. I think it was Goering who described Hitler as the type of man who you would walk into his office thinking you were going to convince him from your point of view on a partiular issue and walk back out a minute later convinced otherwise.

Aside from being able to control the mob with his tounge, he realized a few further truths about the mob other than simply screaming at them.

1. The Bigger the lie the more people will believe in it; he realized propaganda was the one principle mechanism (other than his own charisma) to indoctrinate the people with a particular view on reality...which Gobbells, his minister for propaganda and enlightenment so famous for executing.

2. Give the people something to love and something to hate; excessive jingoism and hate for the jews and anything else un-german.

Another significant fact that allowed Hitlers rise to such power was the institutionalization of Germany's military into its economic life. By rebuilding the capacity of the German military machine by leaps and bounds, Hitlers power was essentially solidified.

As a last note, Hitlers rise to power, from the time he was discharged from military sevice in 1919 and began his political ascension until 1933 when he was sworn in as chancellor of Germany, his rise to that state was pretty much fair and democratic (I believe, id have to research that, this is all from memory so correct me if im wrong if there was any anti-semitism used as political tactics during that period between 1919-1933)

I agree with this one. In a time of need, Hitler was the voice of reason to his people, in thier eyes they needed someone like him.

The people did not choose him, when he got appointed Chancellor it was on the back of another election defeat where the Nazi party was in fact losing votes. The people of Germany elected the man who nominated Hitler.

:-D
:-D