Political Crossfire Forums

[feederband]

Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...

[superchick]

feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

[sLiPpY]

feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...

In my thinking, the question is "feederband"? Why do you ask questions that I'm almost 99.9 percent sure...you would forward a similar response as to what I'm about to propose?

1. God needed Mary, like the Hellenistic audience would be more adaptable to the message of someone they could identify with. i.e. Isis and fertility...note that Mary assumed Isis's iconic and imagery roles within the Church. And, that Mary was the logical replacement to fill a purpose, for the vacancies in the Temples to Isis?

2. Mary fulfills the need in Judaism and Philo'ism for the role of "the Logos" which is masculine for Sophia. aka. The creative power of God capable of manifesting itself in this world.

Granted logically, God had no need of Mary...in that he had no need of a Womb to create Adam.

:think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?

[sLiPpY]

superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink:

[superchick]

sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink: Are you agnostic or atheist Slippy?

[sLiPpY]

superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink: Are you agnostic or atheist Slippy?

On that item, I'm not quite sure. We humans do like to categorize things, and although I vacillate...I don't know that I have an applicable answer.

Do I believe prayers are answered? Some may be, some may be by cognitive volition. Some may not.

Do I believe in a god? I've never seen nor heard from one. And am almost 100 percent sure that in absence of a sociological stimulus, I probably would never be aware of the presence or absence of one.

Do I perceive the things around me with a sense of wonder and amazement? Absolutely, and it isn't the things that man has created. It's the beauty of a flower, and wondering how or why it does that. It's the humanity and empathy of my pet, that doesn't even come close to speaking the same language, yet we're both mutually satisfied and understood.

If there is a god, I'm not so sure it's a being vs. a "state of being."

Whatever it is, I do not believe that man sitting in some of the most detestable terrain upon all of the earth. Had even a smidgen of a comprehension of a "god" concept well over 2000 years ago.

Whatever this "god" force or thing might be, I suspect it's yet to be identified, and quite possibly might not possess any level of sentient consciousness, as to where a human being could successfully communicate with it. Which seems reasonable to me, in that the human experience itself...is often a fight for consciousness. :wink:

I don't believe in God, as man has defined the concept to date. But that doesn't mean, I'm not open to the possibility of discovering something which might supplant that concept?

btw...I don't know what that means. Or if anything more categorical would even apply.

[superchick]

sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink: Are you agnostic or atheist Slippy?

On that item, I'm not quite sure. We humans do like to categorize things, and although I vacillate...I don't know that I have an applicable answer.

Do I believe prayers are answered? Some may be, some may be by cognitive volition. Some may not.

Do I believe in a god? I've never seen nor heard from one. And am almost 100 percent sure that in absence of a sociological stimulus, I probably would never be aware of the presence or absence of one.

Do I perceive the things around me with a sense of wonder and amazement? Absolutely, and it isn't the things that man has created. It's the beauty of a flower, and wondering how or why it does that. It's the humanity and empathy of my pet, that doesn't even come close to speaking the same language, yet we're both mutually satisfied and understood.

If there is a god, I'm not so sure it's a being vs. a "state of being."

Whatever it is, I do not believe that man sitting in some of the most detestable terrain upon all of the earth. Had even a smidgen of a comprehension of a "god" concept well over 2000 years ago.

Whatever this "god" force or thing might be, I suspect it's yet to be identified, and quite possibly might not possess any level of sentient consciousness, as to where a human being could successfully communicate with it. Which seems reasonable to me, in that the human experience itself...is often a fight for consciousness. :wink:

I don't believe in God, as man has defined the concept to date. But that doesn't mean, I'm not open to the possibility of discovering something which might supplant that concept?

btw...I don't know what that means. Or if anything more categorical would even apply.
Ok, let me clarify my question: Do you think that poof,(big bang or whatever) and then creation(man, earth, sun, moon, planets, universe, etc.?) or do you believe there must be some kind of something that created things?

[sLiPpY]

superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink: Are you agnostic or atheist Slippy?

On that item, I'm not quite sure. We humans do like to categorize things, and although I vacillate...I don't know that I have an applicable answer.

Do I believe prayers are answered? Some may be, some may be by cognitive volition. Some may not.

Do I believe in a god? I've never seen nor heard from one. And am almost 100 percent sure that in absence of a sociological stimulus, I probably would never be aware of the presence or absence of one.

Do I perceive the things around me with a sense of wonder and amazement? Absolutely, and it isn't the things that man has created. It's the beauty of a flower, and wondering how or why it does that. It's the humanity and empathy of my pet, that doesn't even come close to speaking the same language, yet we're both mutually satisfied and understood.

If there is a god, I'm not so sure it's a being vs. a "state of being."

Whatever it is, I do not believe that man sitting in some of the most detestable terrain upon all of the earth. Had even a smidgen of a comprehension of a "god" concept well over 2000 years ago.

Whatever this "god" force or thing might be, I suspect it's yet to be identified, and quite possibly might not possess any level of sentient consciousness, as to where a human being could successfully communicate with it. Which seems reasonable to me, in that the human experience itself...is often a fight for consciousness. :wink:

I don't believe in God, as man has defined the concept to date. But that doesn't mean, I'm not open to the possibility of discovering something which might supplant that concept?

btw...I don't know what that means. Or if anything more categorical would even apply.
Ok, let me clarify my question: Do you think that poof,(big bang or whatever) and then creation(man, earth, sun, moon, planets, universe, etc.?) or do you believe there must be some kind of something that created things?

That helps: My personal position is that some things in life "just are."

Similar to there being things that are within my own realm of control, while the vast majority of things are not. The one's that aren't, I tend not to concern myself with.

So the long short of it is, it'd be nice to know...but there is no way to know...unless you were there. ;)

[feederband]

sLiPpY wrote: [ :think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?


Thats kind of what entered my mind ..Thus the reason of the question..

[Snarf]

feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Too many witnesses around, so the Conception story had to be created even though the average child knows where babies, even Baby Jesus', come from.

BTW, ancient Greek and Roman gods did the same thing all the time, hence the genesis of the Mary Myth...

[feederband]

superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

In my mind its beyond impossible..But doesn't mean I don't try to understand the other side.

[sLiPpY]

feederband wrote: sLiPpY wrote: [ :think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?


Thats kind of what entered my mind ..Thus the reason of the question..

I'd be curious if there is any clarification, as to that thought that entered your mind you'd like to offer. And even though I sarcastically gave you a "lil' jib"...please don't ever stop asking those questions. :-D

That's how I managed to learn most of the interesting, yet useless crap that I know. :lol:

[feederband]

sLiPpY wrote: I don't believe in God, as man has defined the concept to date. But that doesn't mean, I'm not open to the possibility of discovering something which might supplant that concept?

Thats why I've been saying we all are probably wrong...I am also open to this thought..But I'm also Atheist to the terms of God or Gods as known to us now..

[feederband]

sLiPpY wrote: feederband wrote: sLiPpY wrote: [ :think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?


Thats kind of what entered my mind ..Thus the reason of the question..

I'd be curious if there is any clarification, as to that thought that entered your mind you'd like to offer. And even though I sarcastically gave you a "lil' jib"...please don't ever stop asking those questions. :-D

That's how I managed to learn most of the interesting, yet useless crap that I know. :lol:

I was wondering how little jesus lived ...Was he a normal kid..Or did he make little candies appear out of no where an had little kids follow him everywhere...Being sarcastic on the last part but not on the first part..

[feederband]

sLiPpY wrote: feederband wrote: sLiPpY wrote: [ :think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?


Thats kind of what entered my mind ..Thus the reason of the question..

I'd be curious if there is any clarification, as to that thought that entered your mind you'd like to offer. And even though I sarcastically gave you a "lil' jib"...please don't ever stop asking those questions. :-D

That's how I managed to learn most of the interesting, yet useless crap that I know. :lol:

Being Atheist I get beat up all the time on this forum...Thats what I get for typing on a religious forum...But I never take it personal..

[Gilbert1908]

feederband wrote: sLiPpY wrote: feederband wrote: sLiPpY wrote: [ :think: Further, there is no indication that Adam was ever a child? Why would Jesus if he is indeed a divinty, ever have a need to be a child?


Thats kind of what entered my mind ..Thus the reason of the question..

I'd be curious if there is any clarification, as to that thought that entered your mind you'd like to offer. And even though I sarcastically gave you a "lil' jib"...please don't ever stop asking those questions. :-D

That's how I managed to learn most of the interesting, yet useless crap that I know. :lol:

I was wondering how little jesus lived ...Was he a normal kid..Or did he make little candies appear out of no where an had little kids follow him everywhere...Being sarcastic on the last part but not on the first part..

One would think that if Christians were going to make up a religion out of thin air they would have at least covered Jesus' childhood, teenage years and early adult life. But alas they had limited imaginations and the Gospels only cover those things which were seen or retold by those who observed them. Or if you are a an athiest made up by those who observed them.

In any case the question of why God "needed" Mary is at the very heart of Christianity. Keep in mind that the life and death of the Christ had already been announced. But once again the central concept of personal yet seperate nature of God and man is clear. Human free will, freedom is the very center of our existence.

As the fall of man was a free choice so to then its salvation had to be a free choice, and it is with her "fiat" Mary makes this choice.

[mattwa33193]

Snarf wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Too many witnesses around, so the Conception story had to be created even though the average child knows where babies, even Baby Jesus', come from.

BTW, ancient Greek and Roman gods did the same thing all the time, hence the genesis of the Mary Myth...

Good point. "God did it" had been being used as an explanation for *ahem* inappropriate pregnancies for a long time before Jesus was born.

[toddytodd]

superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: sLiPpY wrote: superchick wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Yes God can do anything. God is alpha and omega, and if you believe quantum physics and quantum theory is possible, God shouldn't be soooo impossible in your mind.

:think: I haven't done any serious reading regarding Quantum Mechanics in about fifteen-years. And the subject of a sub-atomic realm is interesting, however point out the following example and my own unique interpretation.

Particle acceleration. One could accelerate a particle and not be able to consistently determine it's path. That was fifteen years ago, and granted I haven't studied up since.

My take on the proposition. It's not that the path isn't predictable and known, it's that for the human mind there are variables that have yet to be identified. :wink: Are you agnostic or atheist Slippy?

On that item, I'm not quite sure. We humans do like to categorize things, and although I vacillate...I don't know that I have an applicable answer.

Do I believe prayers are answered? Some may be, some may be by cognitive volition. Some may not.

Do I believe in a god? I've never seen nor heard from one. And am almost 100 percent sure that in absence of a sociological stimulus, I probably would never be aware of the presence or absence of one.

Do I perceive the things around me with a sense of wonder and amazement? Absolutely, and it isn't the things that man has created. It's the beauty of a flower, and wondering how or why it does that. It's the humanity and empathy of my pet, that doesn't even come close to speaking the same language, yet we're both mutually satisfied and understood.

If there is a god, I'm not so sure it's a being vs. a "state of being."

Whatever it is, I do not believe that man sitting in some of the most detestable terrain upon all of the earth. Had even a smidgen of a comprehension of a "god" concept well over 2000 years ago.

Whatever this "god" force or thing might be, I suspect it's yet to be identified, and quite possibly might not possess any level of sentient consciousness, as to where a human being could successfully communicate with it. Which seems reasonable to me, in that the human experience itself...is often a fight for consciousness. :wink:

I don't believe in God, as man has defined the concept to date. But that doesn't mean, I'm not open to the possibility of discovering something which might supplant that concept?

btw...I don't know what that means. Or if anything more categorical would even apply.
Ok, let me clarify my question: Do you think that poof,(big bang or whatever) and then creation(man, earth, sun, moon, planets, universe, etc.?) or do you believe there must be some kind of something that created things?
Superchick- I know this question wasn't asked of me, but I wanted to ask a question if I could:
Is you question clarification saying that there was a big bang OR a Creation by something [creator]?

[toddytodd]

feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...

It is my opinion that, while God doesn't "need" anyone, he chose Mary for specific reasons (she was pure = virgin birth, she was lowly in social stature = humble beginnings so to speak, etc.).
There are all types of symbolist happenings in the bible story of Jesus, but many of these same happenings are also politically motivated. As to rather or not that is how God set them up, or if that is how the author wrote them, is up for continued debate amongst historians & scholars.

[Gilbert1908]

mattwa33193 wrote: Snarf wrote: feederband wrote: Why did God need Mary...Couldn't of he just made Jesus out of dirt like he did before with Adam...
Too many witnesses around, so the Conception story had to be created even though the average child knows where babies, even Baby Jesus', come from.

BTW, ancient Greek and Roman gods did the same thing all the time, hence the genesis of the Mary Myth...

Good point. "God did it" had been being used as an explanation for *ahem* inappropriate pregnancies for a long time before Jesus was born.

No doubt you are right, but then the question is simply why was it that this one lead to Christianity?