Political Crossfire Forums

[MoscowMatt]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4989376.stm

I think we are wasting our time trying to offer them incentives. We would be better off to offer these economic incentives to Russia if through this we can get them onside then it will leave Iran more isolated and it will be easier to make them comply with our demands. So really we are focusing our diplomacy in the wrong direction at the moment. Make deals with Russia and also China too and then we can go back to the negotiating table with a lot stronger hand.

[Kumar]

I'd imagine that they would have to be extremely lucrative deals. Russia and China are interested in a long-term relationship with Iran to strengthen their own positions, so they are unlikely to back down.

Anyways, it's good that Iran is continuing with its program. Iran does have the right to defend itself and to advance the nation.

[Village Idiot]

????

[Plato & Socrates]

MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4989376.stm

I think we are wasting our time trying to offer them incentives. We would be better off to offer these economic incentives to Russia if through this we can get them onside then it will leave Iran more isolated and it will be easier to make them comply with our demands. So really we are focusing our diplomacy in the wrong direction at the moment. Make deals with Russia and also China too and then we can go back to the negotiating table with a lot stronger hand.

Moscow Matt, China & Russia are just replicating the same maneuvers and plays we have made over the last 50 years. China et al will look at whats in their own NATIONAL interests, coupled with their desire to secure long term energy and will devise their policies accordingly.

There will be no room for morals when conducting talks with the US and co. Is this a corrupt situation? Yes it is BUT and here's the but, is there stance any different than the other self serving policies of either the US, France or our very own country the UK, when dealing with rotten regimes with resources we need?

If not, then our governments complaining and taking the moral high ground, makes us look sanctimonious and hypocrites at best. Iran is'nt going to offer any compromise and why should they, knowing that the leading powers are divided.
I say we reap what we sow and decades of rotten foreign policy decisions based all in favour for economic benefits and securing strategic oil reserves with despotic oppressive leaders. Coupled with selling them arms, some of which have been used to suppress the people, and now we are asking China et al to do the "right" thing?

Knowing this to be the case, if China or Russia took a differing position from the one there taking now, I would be shocked. I know your not surprised by China's or Russia's positions, but considering energy need are paramount to us all, what economic incentive or deal could we offer them, compared to the guaranteed access to oil the Iranians will offer. Don't forget this access to oil will be done without having competing on a equal footing with the US and her allies. Personally there is NO way China will back down and sanction anything against Iran, unless we offered her a real economic Golden egg.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4989376.stm

I think we are wasting our time trying to offer them incentives. We would be better off to offer these economic incentives to Russia if through this we can get them onside then it will leave Iran more isolated and it will be easier to make them comply with our demands. So really we are focusing our diplomacy in the wrong direction at the moment. Make deals with Russia and also China too and then we can go back to the negotiating table with a lot stronger hand.

Moscow Matt, China & Russia are just replicating the same maneuvers and plays we have made over the last 50 years. China et al will look at whats in their own NATIONAL interests, coupled with their desire to secure long term energy and will devise their policies accordingly.

There will be no room for morals when conducting talks with the US and co. Is this a corrupt situation? Yes it is BUT and here's the but, is there stance any different than the other self serving policies of either the US, France or our very own country the UK, when dealing with rotten regimes with resources we need?

If not, then our governments complaining and taking the moral high ground, makes us look sanctimonious and hypocrites at best. Iran is'nt going to offer any compromise and why should they, knowing that the leading powers are divided.
I say we reap what we sow and decades of rotten foreign policy decisions based all in favour for economic benefits and securing strategic oil reserves with despotic oppressive leaders. Coupled with selling them arms, some of which have been used to suppress the people, and now we are asking China et al to do the [b]"right" thing?[/b]


Knowing this to be the case, if China or Russia took a differing position from the one there taking now, I would be shocked. I know your not surprised by China's or Russia's positions, but considering energy need are paramount to us all, what economic incentive or deal could we offer them, compared to the guaranteed access to oil the Iranians will offer. Don't forget this access to oil will be done without having competing on a equal footing with the US and her allies. Personally there is NO way China will back down and sanction anything against Iran, unless we offered her a real economic Golden egg.


Well said P&S.....as much as I detest the Islamic regime in Teheran, one has to pay credence to their history, spicifically 1953 when the CIA and the British engineered the infamous coup which toppled the democratically elected Mossadeq because he nationalised his country's resources .... The Brits and Americans installed their man, the Shah who catered to the U.S /western corporate elite while brutalising his own people for the next 25 years....

So here we are, rightly or wrongly in the same boat again with Iran firmly in America's sites yet again, only this time America has surrounded Iran militarily, (ex soviet central asia's U.S bases to the north, Afghanistan to the East and Iraq to Iran's west ) Iran will continue it's path regardless of the "incentives" dished about by the E.U. ...... just to play devil's advocate here....do you blame them?

[Rafael]

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html (in english)

An interview with the Iranian president. Somehow he doesn´t quite seem to be the fanatic schizoid American media is telling us. Interesting, I must say.

[Duchifas]

Rafael wrote: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html (in english)

An interview with the Iranian president. Somehow he doesn´t quite seem to be the fanatic schizoid American media is telling us. Interesting, I must say.

Yeah, none of these monsters really seem to be fanatic schizoids.

Here is an interview with Joseph Stalin:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1927/09/15.htm

Sure, somewhat strange thinking by today's standards, but nothing too fanatic or schizoid. Who woulda thunk that old Joe could murder millions of people. :roll:

[Rankor and Pissing]

Rafael wrote: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html (in english)

An interview with the Iranian president. Somehow he doesn´t quite seem to be the fanatic schizoid American media is telling us. Interesting, I must say.

His handlers installed a switch. Psycho on... or Psycho off.