Political Crossfire Forums

[airo]

cap'n queasy wrote: airo wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: xsuite wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I'm not going to attempt to judge it.

I think someone could repent and find the Lord as the life ebbed from their veins. what about a gunshot or bomb? repent before hand?

Don't commit suicide and you don't have to worry about it.

Anyway a thought only takes a microsecond.

Maybe you could repent as the bullet left the chamber. Who knows. That's getting a little legalistic, don't you think Cap'n?

Couldn't you repent BEFORE you commited suicide? I don't think you can fool God by waiting till afterwards to repent, or by only choosing a method of suicide that would give you a chance to repent after the work was done.
My statement is not legalistic at all, yours is.

I would say that this would be a false repentance if you continued on the course of suicide after "repenting". That would be trying to fool God by using a "legal maneuver". You would only be fooling yourself by doing that.

I'm pretty sure you get pretty sincere when you life is leaving your body and there is no going back, Airo. I have a feeling you're pretty sincere when you're about to take you life, as well. I would venture to say just as sincere as afterwards.

[garyd]

And let us not forget that suicide is the most supremely selfish of acts....

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: I have a feeling you're pretty sincere when you're about to take you life, as well.

I don't see that someone who repents their sins and then shoots themselves as being all that sincere. You are repenting and then sinnign again right then.

[airo]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: I have a feeling you're pretty sincere when you're about to take you life, as well.

I don't see that someone who repents their sins and then shoots themselves as being all that sincere. You are repenting and then sinnign again right then. I specifically said you're repenting for a sin you're ABOUT to commit.

[garyd]

Tom repent is to turn from if you then go ahead and perform the act of which you claim to have repented then you really haven't repented...

[Hyde]

airo wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: xsuite wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I'm not going to attempt to judge it.

I think someone could repent and find the Lord as the life ebbed from their veins. what about a gunshot or ? repent before hand?

Don't and you don't have to worry about it.

Anyway a thought only takes a microsecond.

Maybe you could repent as the bullet left the chamber. Who knows. That's getting a little legalistic, don't you think Cap'n?

Couldn't you repent BEFORE you commited ? I don't think you can fool God by waiting till afterwards to repent, or by only choosing a method of that would give you a chance to repent after the work was done.

like hanging yourself?

anyways, i dont plan to kill myself anytime soon so im not to worried about it.

[Hyde]

garyd wrote: And let us not forget that is the most supremely selfish of acts....

what if a man has a gun pointed to your daughters head and says that you have to commit sucide or else he'll kill her. you are sacrificing yourself for your daughter but yet u r commiting sucide . i dont find that selfish

[psholtz]

xsuite wrote: PS How long do you think it will take for psholtz to hijack this thread?
You called? :-D

No seriously, suicide is always a devasting tragedy. I suppose there are rare cases that have already been cited on this thread, where if you're being tortured, etc, then perhaps there's some "justification", but suicide as I've seen it is always just utterly and totally devastating to the family and loved ones that are left behind.. It's perhaps one of the most heartbreaking forms of (emotional) pain that exists, and that's probably why the spiritual texts of most religious traditions have so strongly condemned it.

If those who commit suicide could come back and see firsthand the sadness and the pain and the sorrow and the unanswered questions (the questions that *never* will be answered) that their suicide has left in its wake, I doubt anyone would ever commit such a deed. It's always a devastating tragedy, and it has so many "hidden" burdens that go w/ it as well.. I mean, if the suicide is committed in someone's house, the family is probably going to want to sell the property (and in fact, they're probably never going to want to set foot back in the property at all, even to sell it), since who wants to go on living in a house where their loved one killed themselves?

It's such a sad, sad, sad thing to have happen.

There are I suppose cases where the family is able to make some heads or tails out of it, if maybe the person who killed themselves was suffering from some terminal and/or extremely painful disease, etc.. but it seems to me that the most "common" causes of suicide, those people who are just super depressed b/c they feel themselves to be "unloved", those are absolutely the most tragic and heart-breaking of all suicides.. precisely b/c such feelings of being "unloved" are ALMOST ALWAYS A FIGMENT OF THAT INDIVIDUAL'S IMAGINATION and because that individual has NO KNOW OF KNOWING JUST HOW MUCH THEY MEAN TO THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM. These suicides are worst, since they leave so many unanswered questions in the minds of their friends and families, and such a colossal burden of guilt on those people.

I will say this: if you know someone who has been super, super depressed for a long time, and then all of a sudden that person turns around and starts being super, super happy and super, super cheery, and especially if that newly happy person suddenly wants to spend some "quality time" with all their friends and family and it seems like spending this "quality time" is suddenly the biggest, top priority in their live, that's a HUGE WARNING SIGN. People who have been contemplating suicide are often heavy and depressed and dejected as they're doing so, but once they've made up their minds that they're going to "check out", they suddenly feel light as a feather and have never been "happier" in their lives.

That can be especially confusing to those left behind, b/c it gives them a wierd, false sense of "security" that suddenly fails them. They think (at first), "wow! I haven't seen this person so happy in years! I'm so glad everything has finally worked out and things are back on track!" and then suddenly BAM! The person is dead. The shock of that (to those left behind) can be utterly, utterly devastating..

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: I have a feeling you're pretty sincere when you're about to take you life, as well.

I don't see that someone who repents their sins and then shoots themselves as being all that sincere. You are repenting and then sinnign again right then.
I don't think that someone who pulls the trigger of a gun and then tries to "repent" in the microsecond before it hits their brain is exactly being all that "sincere" either..

[Richard Owl Mirror]

I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

[airo]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

[lucidnightmare]

My grandmother died a very lingering and painful death.They gave her the strongest pain killers available(Oxycontin) and they barely worked.

If I were in her situation I would be tempted to crush those time release Oxycontin's up in orange juice and drink the whole bottle.(if you crush time release pills up the full power of the pills hit you all at once).

[Richard Owl Mirror]

airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

:think:

Sampson v. Alaska, 31 P.3d 88 (Alaska 2001)
Quote: Sampson, an accountant, was diagnosed as human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) positive in 1985. In 1992 his diagnosis was updated to acquired immune
deficiency syndrome (AIDS). By 1998 Sampson's doctors advised him that he
was in the terminal phase. Sampson asserted that he wanted his physician's
assistance to end his life. Id. at 2-3.
Doe, a physician, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1977. Successfully
treated, it was rediscovered as metastasized in 1989. Despite treatment, she was
diagnosed as in the terminal stages of bone and liver cancer in 1998. She also
asserted that she wanted to have the option of physician assistance in ending
her life. Id. at 3.
Sampson and Doe filed suit, asking the superior court to declare Alaska's
manslaughter statute invalid to the extent that it prevents mentally competent,
terminally ill individuals from obtaining prescribed medication to self-administer
for the purpose of hastening death. All parties moved for summary judgment and
the trial court granted the State's motion, and denied the plaintiffs' motion.
Plaintiffs appealed, however, both plaintiffs died while this case was pending
before the Alaska Supreme Court.
~snip~
In regard to Sampson and Doe's argument that their constitutional right to
equal protection had been violated, the court relied on its prior analysis of the
Alaska Constitution's privacy and liberty clauses establishing that the
manslaughter statute's assisted-suicide ban bears a close and substantial
relationship to the state's legitimate interests in all other significant respects.
Thus, the ban satisfies the equal protection test, and accordingly, the court
concluded that the prohibition of assisted suicide did not, on its face, violate
Sampson and Doe's rights to equal protection. Id. at 27.
The decision of the trial court rejecting Sampson and Doe's requests for
physician-assisted suicide was affirmed.
* This condensed court opinion was originally published in Issues in Law & Medicine, Vol. 17, No.
2, 2001.



Islamic Terrorists utilize terminally Ill people to carry forth their destruction? I didn't know that . :gdgf:

[airo]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

:think:

Sampson v. Alaska, 31 P.3d 88 (Alaska 2001)
Quote: Sampson, an accountant, was diagnosed as human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) positive in 1985. In 1992 his diagnosis was updated to acquired immune
deficiency syndrome (AIDS). By 1998 Sampson's doctors advised him that he
was in the terminal phase. Sampson asserted that he wanted his physician's
assistance to end his life. Id. at 2-3.
Doe, a physician, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1977. Successfully
treated, it was rediscovered as metastasized in 1989. Despite treatment, she was
diagnosed as in the terminal stages of bone and liver cancer in 1998. She also
asserted that she wanted to have the option of physician assistance in ending
her life. Id. at 3.
Sampson and Doe filed suit, asking the superior court to declare Alaska's
manslaughter statute invalid to the extent that it prevents mentally competent,
terminally ill individuals from obtaining prescribed medication to self-administer
for the purpose of hastening death. All parties moved for summary judgment and
the trial court granted the State's motion, and denied the plaintiffs' motion.
Plaintiffs appealed, however, both plaintiffs died while this case was pending
before the Alaska Supreme Court.
~snip~
In regard to Sampson and Doe's argument that their constitutional right to
equal protection had been violated, the court relied on its prior analysis of the
Alaska Constitution's privacy and liberty clauses establishing that the
manslaughter statute's assisted-suicide ban bears a close and substantial
relationship to the state's legitimate interests in all other significant respects.
Thus, the ban satisfies the equal protection test, and accordingly, the court
concluded that the prohibition of assisted suicide did not, on its face, violate
Sampson and Doe's rights to equal protection. Id. at 27.
The decision of the trial court rejecting Sampson and Doe's requests for
physician-assisted suicide was affirmed.
* This condensed court opinion was originally published in Issues in Law & Medicine, Vol. 17, No.
2, 2001.



Islamic Terrorists utilize terminally Ill people to carry forth their destruction? I didn't know that . :gdgf: What the f**k?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

:think:

Sampson v. Alaska, 31 P.3d 88 (Alaska 2001)
Quote: Sampson, an accountant, was diagnosed as human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) positive in 1985. In 1992 his diagnosis was updated to acquired immune
deficiency syndrome (AIDS). By 1998 Sampson's doctors advised him that he
was in the terminal phase. Sampson asserted that he wanted his physician's
assistance to end his life. Id. at 2-3.
Doe, a physician, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1977. Successfully
treated, it was rediscovered as metastasized in 1989. Despite treatment, she was
diagnosed as in the terminal stages of bone and liver cancer in 1998. She also
asserted that she wanted to have the option of physician assistance in ending
her life. Id. at 3.
Sampson and Doe filed suit, asking the superior court to declare Alaska's
manslaughter statute invalid to the extent that it prevents mentally competent,
terminally ill individuals from obtaining prescribed medication to self-administer
for the purpose of hastening death. All parties moved for summary judgment and
the trial court granted the State's motion, and denied the plaintiffs' motion.
Plaintiffs appealed, however, both plaintiffs died while this case was pending
before the Alaska Supreme Court.
~snip~
In regard to Sampson and Doe's argument that their constitutional right to
equal protection had been violated, the court relied on its prior analysis of the
Alaska Constitution's privacy and liberty clauses establishing that the
manslaughter statute's assisted-suicide ban bears a close and substantial
relationship to the state's legitimate interests in all other significant respects.
Thus, the ban satisfies the equal protection test, and accordingly, the court
concluded that the prohibition of assisted suicide did not, on its face, violate
Sampson and Doe's rights to equal protection. Id. at 27.
The decision of the trial court rejecting Sampson and Doe's requests for
physician-assisted suicide was affirmed.
* This condensed court opinion was originally published in Issues in Law & Medicine, Vol. 17, No.
2, 2001.



Islamic Terrorists utilize terminally Ill people to carry forth their destruction? I didn't know that . :gdgf: What the f**k?

:!oops: I'm sorry, did you have another SAMSON in mind?

[airo]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

:think:

Sampson v. Alaska, 31 P.3d 88 (Alaska 2001)
Quote: Sampson, an accountant, was diagnosed as human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) positive in 1985. In 1992 his diagnosis was updated to acquired immune
deficiency syndrome (AIDS). By 1998 Sampson's doctors advised him that he
was in the terminal phase. Sampson asserted that he wanted his physician's
assistance to end his life. Id. at 2-3.
Doe, a physician, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1977. Successfully
treated, it was rediscovered as metastasized in 1989. Despite treatment, she was
diagnosed as in the terminal stages of bone and liver cancer in 1998. She also
asserted that she wanted to have the option of physician assistance in ending
her life. Id. at 3.
Sampson and Doe filed suit, asking the superior court to declare Alaska's
manslaughter statute invalid to the extent that it prevents mentally competent,
terminally ill individuals from obtaining prescribed medication to self-administer
for the purpose of hastening death. All parties moved for summary judgment and
the trial court granted the State's motion, and denied the plaintiffs' motion.
Plaintiffs appealed, however, both plaintiffs died while this case was pending
before the Alaska Supreme Court.
~snip~
In regard to Sampson and Doe's argument that their constitutional right to
equal protection had been violated, the court relied on its prior analysis of the
Alaska Constitution's privacy and liberty clauses establishing that the
manslaughter statute's assisted-suicide ban bears a close and substantial
relationship to the state's legitimate interests in all other significant respects.
Thus, the ban satisfies the equal protection test, and accordingly, the court
concluded that the prohibition of assisted suicide did not, on its face, violate
Sampson and Doe's rights to equal protection. Id. at 27.
The decision of the trial court rejecting Sampson and Doe's requests for
physician-assisted suicide was affirmed.
* This condensed court opinion was originally published in Issues in Law & Medicine, Vol. 17, No.
2, 2001.



Islamic Terrorists utilize terminally Ill people to carry forth their destruction? I didn't know that . :gdgf: What the f**k?

:!oops: I'm sorry, did you have another SAMSON in mind? Was that really necessary to point out a simple typo?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: airo wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: I believe it is a slap in the face to the one who gave you life.

I'd like to see some comments from Muslims on this issue.
Is suicide ever permitted in Islam? How about those suiciders?

If i recall correctly, suicide bombers use the same justification that Sampson did.

:think:

Sampson v. Alaska, 31 P.3d 88 (Alaska 2001)
Quote: Sampson, an accountant, was diagnosed as human immunodeficiency virus
(HIV) positive in 1985. In 1992 his diagnosis was updated to acquired immune
deficiency syndrome (AIDS). By 1998 Sampson's doctors advised him that he
was in the terminal phase. Sampson asserted that he wanted his physician's
assistance to end his life. Id. at 2-3.
Doe, a physician, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1977. Successfully
treated, it was rediscovered as metastasized in 1989. Despite treatment, she was
diagnosed as in the terminal stages of bone and liver cancer in 1998. She also
asserted that she wanted to have the option of physician assistance in ending
her life. Id. at 3.
Sampson and Doe filed suit, asking the superior court to declare Alaska's
manslaughter statute invalid to the extent that it prevents mentally competent,
terminally ill individuals from obtaining prescribed medication to self-administer
for the purpose of hastening death. All parties moved for summary judgment and
the trial court granted the State's motion, and denied the plaintiffs' motion.
Plaintiffs appealed, however, both plaintiffs died while this case was pending
before the Alaska Supreme Court.
~snip~
In regard to Sampson and Doe's argument that their constitutional right to
equal protection had been violated, the court relied on its prior analysis of the
Alaska Constitution's privacy and liberty clauses establishing that the
manslaughter statute's assisted-suicide ban bears a close and substantial
relationship to the state's legitimate interests in all other significant respects.
Thus, the ban satisfies the equal protection test, and accordingly, the court
concluded that the prohibition of assisted suicide did not, on its face, violate
Sampson and Doe's rights to equal protection. Id. at 27.
The decision of the trial court rejecting Sampson and Doe's requests for
physician-assisted suicide was affirmed.
* This condensed court opinion was originally published in Issues in Law & Medicine, Vol. 17, No.
2, 2001.



Islamic Terrorists utilize terminally Ill people to carry forth their destruction? I didn't know that . :gdgf: What the f**k?

:!oops: I'm sorry, did you have another SAMSON in mind? Was that really necessary to point out a simple typo?
You give me much more credit than I deserve in that I hadn't noticed a typo.

What does the Bible say about suicide?
The Bible records seven suicides.

Abimelech
(Judges 9:52-54)
Abimelech lacked personal identity.

Samson
(Judges 16:25-30)
Samson died for a cause he believed in and for revenge.

Saul
(1 Samuel 31:4)
Stressed out, unable to live up to certain expectations; felt rejected and a failure

Saul's armor-bearer
(1 Samuel 31:5)
Impulse, he wanted to die with his boss. 40% of teenage suicide is impulse.

Ahithophel
(2 Samuel 17:23)
Ahithophel was bitter because his advice was not followed

Zimri
(1 Kings 16:15-20)
Rebellion; Zimri had a problem with authority

Judas
(Matthew 27:3-5)
Depressed, Judas felt trapped by materialism and guilt

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y038.html

The Bible Allows Suicide Bombing! ~@~ Ummah.com
Quote: Jewish and Christian knowledgeable ministers are really clear hypocrites! They condemn the Palestinian Suicide Bomber Martyrs who are defending their lands and trying to drive the Israeli occupation out of their lands with every way they can, while intentionally ignoring the fact that their very own Bible allows suicide bombing.

The story of the Mighty Samson:

Samson the son ~ Judges 13
Quote: I suppose Samson's mother could only watch helplessly as the shame her son felt at Timnah and the dreadful death of his young bride there drove Samson into a one-man war of revenge against the Philistines, a war conducted from a mountain hideout close to the family home. Sure, there were famous victories, victories that would spark Israel's rebellion against their Philistine overlords, but the end was always in sight. Samson's mother finally heard that her son had been captured and mutilated, forced into slavery and degradation. Brought out to make brutal sport for his captors, he died a suicide, beneath their bodies and the ruins of a building he brought down in a final spasm of strength.

I guess it's kind of a tricky proposition trying to equate one person's action with any group mentality.

[Plodder]

suicide is the despaing of christs mercy and love . It is the supreme act of selfishness. It means that you are not open to redemtion that is possible though time. In some situations the severuty is lessened. SIN

[Æ]

Plodder wrote: suicide is the despaing of christs mercy and love . It is the supreme act of selfishness. It means that you are not open to redemtion that is possible though time. In some situations the severuty is lessened. SIN
Suicide is considered wrong only by those who have never been on the brink of it. Depression is a medical condition; it has nothing to do with spirituality.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

U.S.: 3 Guantanamo Inmates Hanged Selves

2 hours ago

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Three Guantanamo Bay detainees hanged themselves with nooses made of sheets and clothes, the commander of the detention center said, bringing further condemnation of the isolated camp where hundreds of men have been held for years without charge.

Military officials said the suicides were coordinated acts of protests, but human rights activists and defense attorneys said the deaths signaled the desperation of many of the 460 detainees held on suspicion of links to al-Qaida and the Taliban. Only 10 have been charged with crimes and there has been growing international pressure on the U.S. to close the prison.

Two men from Saudi Arabia and one from Yemen were found dead shortly after midnight Saturday in separate cells, said the Miami-based U.S. Southern Command, which has jurisdiction over the prison.
Attempts were made to revive them, but they failed.

~@~

Did desperation play a role due to : ""He told us he would rather die than stay in Guantanamo,"
the attorney said. "He doesn't believe he will ever get out of Guantanamo alive." ?

The title of this thread is: Suicide a sin?
I would like to ask the question of; is it a SIN to create conditions which would make people contemplate committing suicide?