Political Crossfire Forums

bob.appleyard · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 7543 Location: Manchestar, innit

I heard on a podcast today about a German plan to place solar thermal power plants in North Africa. Europe could then buy the energy; if this was done on a big enough scale the rates could be quite competitive.

I can see some positive points here:

- Europe can diversify into a source of energy which is clean and reliable.
- The people living there get money from selling the energy.
- They also get a handy source of distilled water from the turbines.

Sounds like a pretty cool idea to me. What do you lot think?

A googling produced this
http://www.scidev.net/News/index.cfm?fuseaction=readNews&itemid=2406&language=1

which specifically mentions Algeria and Morocco becoming energy exporters to Europe, "as they will soon be connected to European energy networks."

http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-audio/Guardian/Newsdesk/2006/05/15/Newsdesk150506.mp3

This was the podcast I heard it from first. It discusses a fair few other things as well.

mathurin · Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:

i have heard worse ideas

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

the sahara should resemble one big solar screen with wind turbines here and there. It would drastically reduce the need for coal fired power plants, alleviate poverty in saharan africa, and lower pollution concentrations and therefore reduce preventable death and illness. Definite thumbsd up.

Free Thinkr · Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:09 am Post subject:

I say build a bunch of these.

bob.appleyard · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 7543 Location: Manchestar, innit

Free Thinkr wrote: I say build a bunch of these.

The article mentions solar thermal power, so it will be something very like it.

Pzatchok · Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 6920

Exactly how would the native animals feel about this MASSIVE intrusion uppon their habitat?

And Exactly just how big woould the system have to be to make one watt of power? How about a mega watt?

Green · Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject:

Pzatchok wrote: Exactly how would the native animals feel about this MASSIVE intrusion uppon their habitat?

And Exactly just how big woould the system have to be to make one watt of power? How about a mega watt?

What wildlife is there in the Sahara.

Jihadists will probably try to blow these up. This area is just as Islamic as the Middle east, and there are plenty of armed anti- western groups that can walk to the Sahara from the west bank.

Pzatchok · Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 6920

Its the number of animals but the effect we have on the poor things.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7833 Location: On the Run.

Pzatchok wrote: Its the number of animals but the effect we have on the poor things.

I think we would be doing the global habitat more good then harm by moving away from the black oil that can be spilled, used in the production of toxic chemicals and is burned.

The Sahara is growing everyday and the effect on the local ecosystem will more then likely be no more then the intrusive nature of an oil rig.

George W Bush · Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject:

Let exercise equipment create energy.
and/or let people use exercise equipment from home to produce energy.

Idea is to use exercise bikes wheel rotation for energy.

Is that feasible?

TNBiologist · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 962 Location: Tennessee

I think it is a good idea but needs some serious Qand A.

I am not too worried about the habitat as stated earlier the Sahara in expanding daily.

Would locals run own/run the plants thus recieve the economic benifits or would foreign goevernments? Foriegn coporations would have to be envolved just to get start-up money and technology. Would they be able to use locals as a work force and start training locals to manage/run these with the corporation still the owner but the local economiy the big winner?

What about militants? Islam in the main religion and right now militant islam is growing in Africa. Would the plants have to have a private security frim gaurding them or would the governments put aside religious differances in oder to help its people?

How would you transport the energy? There woudl have to be substations along the way if the energy is going to Europe. These would have to be maitained. Is the cost/benifit ratio worth it?

Pzatchok · Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 6920

what keeps the wind blown sand off of thousands of square feet if not millions of square feet of solar pannels?

Little natives with brushes? What about the UV damage to each worker? Will we be shipping them all sunscreen and medical treatment for skin cancer?

After all of this is it safer, cheaper, and environmentally better?

First off. Its not the burning of petrolium thats the real danger but the use of petrolium products in everything else. The atmosphere recovers much faster than the landfills. When was the last time you actually witnessed an oil spill? When was the last time you saw plastic garbage on the ground? Which is worse today and tomorrow?

islandhopper · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 364 Location: 10,000 Islands

George W Bush wrote: Let exercise equipment create energy.
and/or let people use exercise equipment from home to produce energy.

Idea is to use exercise bikes wheel rotation for energy.

Is that feasible?

If you rely on the people in the USA, each person would probably only get enough energy for 5 minutes of microwave time, long enough to heat that super burrito that's worth about 600 kcalories.

But, you do have a good idea in theory. Maybe if people HAD to exercise in order to get energy to their homes, we could reduce our oil dependency and get rid of that nasty obesity epidemic. :) Government mandate: 30 minutes of moderate exercise most days of the week.

Gremlin · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 7833 Location: On the Run.

Pzatchok wrote: what keeps the wind blown sand off of thousands of square feet if not millions of square feet of solar pannels?

Little natives with brushes? What about the UV damage to each worker? Will we be shipping them all sunscreen and medical treatment for skin cancer?

engineering, this would hardly be a problem... the hurdle would be solved well before the plans were approved.

Pzatchok · Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 6920

Well start dropping ideas out now. Because its a big problem. Get that patent and be on the bow wave of the future.

Seriously though. Just how big will this thing be?

How large of a solar cell do you need for one watt? How large for one megawatt?
We need terrawatt size here folks if ALL transportation will be switched to electric as this thing is brought on line.

And the BIG question. What about at night? Are we bouncing sunlight around the planet now to keep this thing going 24/7?

bob.appleyard · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 7543 Location: Manchestar, innit

Pzatchok wrote: what keeps the wind blown sand off of thousands of square feet if not millions of square feet of solar pannels?

Not solar panels, just mirrors.

Quote: Little natives with brushes? What about the UV damage to each worker? Will we be shipping them all sunscreen and medical treatment for skin cancer?

They already wear protective clothing.

Quote: After all of this is it safer, cheaper, and environmentally better?

As I said, it would have to be on rather a large scale to be competitive rates.

Quote: First off. Its not the burning of petrolium thats the real danger but the use of petrolium products in everything else. The atmosphere recovers much faster than the landfills. When was the last time you actually witnessed an oil spill? When was the last time you saw plastic garbage on the ground? Which is worse today and tomorrow?

I've seen the effects of an opil spill. Not pretty. I hear you on the oil products. The primary use of oil is still energy production, though. Lessening the demand for oil in this respect can't be a bad thing, although I imagine oil would need to be used to build these things...

poweRob · Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 20889

George W Bush wrote: Let exercise equipment create energy.
and/or let people use exercise equipment from home to produce energy.

Idea is to use exercise bikes wheel rotation for energy.

Is that feasible?

Not really. Not much power in it at all Especially for the United states because you'd have to convert DC to AC power and the end result is tiny.

http://www.econvergence.net/electro.htm

George W Bush · Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject:

poweRob wrote: George W Bush wrote: Let exercise equipment create energy.
and/or let people use exercise equipment from home to produce energy.

Idea is to use exercise bikes wheel rotation for energy.

Is that feasible?

Not really. Not much power in it at all Especially for the United states because you'd have to convert DC to AC power and the end result is tiny.

http://www.econvergence.net/electro.htm

yeah. too good to be true, anyway.
but what a waste of energy - in everything, every motion that goes on in the world.

poweRob · Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 20889

George W Bush wrote: poweRob wrote: George W Bush wrote: Let exercise equipment create energy.
and/or let people use exercise equipment from home to produce energy.

Idea is to use exercise bikes wheel rotation for energy.

Is that feasible?

Not really. Not much power in it at all Especially for the United states because you'd have to convert DC to AC power and the end result is tiny.

http://www.econvergence.net/electro.htm

yeah. too good to be true, anyway.
but what a waste of energy - in everything, every motion that goes on in the world.

I thought about this some time ago and the laws of physics on this is a b****.

While you may be able to change gears on a bike, it doesn't matter to energy output for some reason. I don't quite get it. You have to find you optimum energy output/gear ratio. I watched some video online of a guy explaining this and then running some household equipment off of the energy he produced on the spot.