Political Crossfire Forums

[Muslima]

well if i lived in any non islamic country i would ignore anything happened against my religion if it is not affecting me, but i am talking about the westerners who are living in islamic countries, such as mine.......
muslims who live in non islamic countries should be allowed to practice their religion not as what is happening in france....as long as they are not bothering or annoying anybody else i think they should get their freedom to practice their religion but going to a non islamic country and demanding a masjid (mosque) being built or any other form is of course not acceptable, nothing is accepted forcefully.............

demonic it is not pathetic because it is true people do hate muslims, dislike anything you want but do you act normally with a religious person? or do you make of them, how do behave exactly with them?

[Robin Hood]

Quote: drinking and gambling you could do in specific places besides other things but lets say
you are living in an islamic country with a girlfriend or wife and you were out for dinner or something and wanted to makeout, would you do it considering that making out in public is disrespectful and immoral in islamic countries?

I don't wholly disagree...it's what I'd do in any other country as a matter of course...BUT what happens, when like in Saudi Arabia, other religions are banned from meeting. Or alcochol is banned even in people's own homes?

[Muslima]

well how about that many people have alcohol at their homes in KSA?

[Robin Hood]

Quote: well how about that many people have alcohol at their homes in KSA?

For which they could be arrested....

[prometeus]

Why do we hate Muslims? As I said previously, I think hate is the wrong word. I say that as a believer in God, because any person who sincerely believes in God can not hate. After all how can one love God and ‘hate’ his creation, a fellow man? Although man is capable and has done some of the most cruel deeds, sometimes, falsely, in the name of God, is still Gods creation, and while we must detest and condemn such deeds, hate is still against God’s will and condemnation is only His.
Yet, much to the detriment of mankind there is strife, war, and hateful speech perpetrated on a daily basis. Much of that is now focused around the Middle-East, specifically what can be wrongly described as the Western world against Islam.
So who is the real culprit? Why is this happening?
There are those who, setting aside the larger picture, will simply state its oil. I do not think so. By virtue if its finiteness, and the only recent, in historical terms, great demand for it, oil is not the answer. Animosity, antagonism, war has existed in the region for much longer than the oil factor has existed. So why then?
The short answer to that is: the Muslims. I know, many will just discount me as another Muslim hater, but I tell you I am not. I do not hate anybody. So bear with me and read my reasons. I do not wish to imply that I many not be wrong in some ways, but I do not think I am entirely wrong. If you disagree, bring up arguments that fit a reasonable line of thinking and show me where I am wrong so that I may correct myself.
In return for at least reading this, I promise that I am sincere in what I write; it is how I perceive things, and how many people that I have discussed this, also view the issues. I respect the sincerity that anyone has toward their faith, even if I do not agree with that faith’s premise. As a Christian I am bound by my faith to love my enemies, as such I wish no ill upon anyone, but I am also bound by my obligation to honestly tell how I see and feel about things. I will readily admit I am wrong if it is convincingly pointed out to me.

Let’s take religion. God, the only God has revealed Himself to the Israelites. They were united in the common belief. Scriptures were written. Why? So that people can at their leisure peruse them, trying to learn how to what? Reality is that few, very few people knew how to read back then. If they were to learn from scriptures alone the belief in the One True God would not have lasted long. Then came Christ. Although he did not contradict any of the scriptures, quite to the contrary He declared prophecies contained in the scriptures fulfilled, He also saw and knew that much of what is written is misused and misunderstood by the multitudes who still could not read or understand what is written. So he gave mankind one new law: love each other. It is only through this love for each other, for God’s creation, in His image, that we can sincerely show our love for God. Words then, now can and were misunderstood, misused, abused. Deeds, only deeds done from the heart can truly be taken as submission to God. God has never told man how to think, only what and what not to do, or how to act.
Subsequently came Mohamed. And this is where things started to part. What was till then a faith in a loving and kind God, was changed into a violent one, a vengeance filled one, in whose name men killed men, imposed their will upon each other and Islam was born. Although Islam holds Mohamed to be God’s messenger, clearly valid questions can be raised about him, and whether he fits the “role.” Beyond a doubt, Mohamed has his merits in bringing the pagan tribes to believe in the One True God, that making him a sort of missionary, but him being ‘the messenger’ of God is not something any Christian, or Jew for that matter, can accept.
Muslims will readily argue that we do not have to believe or accept Mohamed, but on the other hand when we see what is done at his urging, based on what he said, we can not but speak up against these practices.
An other argument raised by Muslims, and I do not question their sincerity, just the validity, is that Islam is not practiced the right way, extremists perpetrate the bad things and Islam is a religion of peace and love. Now considering that there are well over a billion Muslims in the world, I find it impossible to accept that the vast multitude can not prevail over the few extremists, and bring about that peaceful and loving faith.
The reality that shows the violent, intolerant, and abusive aspect of the practices in the Muslim world remains in stark contrast of what a few enlightened people argue.
I am not talking about the suicide bomber, who in his desire to please God, is mislead into believing falsely and into committing such a cruelty, I am talking about thousands and thousands, marching and professing hatred, demanding death to the “great satan.”
I am talking about nations that have laws that punish by death conversion from Islam, I am talking about nations that forbid even the existence of other ‘houses’ of worship’ than mosques. There is hardly a need to continue the list, to deny it is to deny reality.

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote:
demonic it is not pathetic because it is true people do hate muslims, dislike anything you want but do you act normally with a religious person? or do you make of them, how do behave exactly with them?


And it's also true that some muslims blow themselves up, just like some people hate muslims. That does not mean all muslims blow themselves up, nor does it mean that all non-religious people hate Islam.

What do you mean how do I behave with them? I treat them like any other person, unless they jam their religion down my throat (start preaching to me) in which case I tell them to shut the hell up.

[Robin Hood]

A fair number of my friends Muslims, I do not hate them. I hate Islam when it is (mis)used as a political ideology, in other words used to tyrannise people. I really want to travel around the Middle East mostly for the amazing history, and no small amount of fun but partly because I've heard from friends who've done just that that the people there are some of the most openly friendly in the world.

[Muslima]

Demonic Spoon wrote:


What do you mean how do I behave with them? I treat them like any other person, unless they jam their religion down my throat (start preaching to me) in which case I tell them to shut the hell up.

you just answered my question.....

[Muslima]

prometeus wrote: Why do we hate Muslims? As I said previously, I think hate is the wrong word. I say that as a believer in God, because any person who sincerely believes in God can not hate. After all how can one love God and ‘hate’ his creation, a fellow man? Although man is capable and has done some of the most cruel deeds, sometimes, falsely, in the name of God, is still Gods creation, and while we must detest and condemn such deeds, hate is still against God’s will and condemnation is only His.

I totally agree......

prometeus wrote: The short answer to that is: the Muslims. I know, many will just discount me as another Muslim hater, but I tell you I am not. I do not hate anybody. So bear with me and read my reasons. I do not wish to imply that I many not be wrong in some ways, but I do not think I am entirely wrong. If you disagree, bring up arguments that fit a reasonable line of thinking and show me where I am wrong so that I may correct myself.

maybe but i will do my best to convince you...


prometeus wrote: Let’s take religion. God, the only God has revealed Himself to the Israelites. They were united in the common belief. Scriptures were written. Why? So that people can at their leisure peruse them, trying to learn how to what? Reality is that few, very few people knew how to read back then. If they were to learn from scriptures alone the belief in the One True God would not have lasted long. Then came Christ. Although he did not contradict any of the scriptures, quite to the contrary He declared prophecies contained in the scriptures fulfilled, He also saw and knew that much of what is written is misused and misunderstood by the multitudes who still could not read or understand what is written. So he gave mankind one new law: love each other. It is only through this love for each other, for God’s creation, in His image, that we can sincerely show our love for God. Words then, now can and were misunderstood, misused, abused. Deeds, only deeds done from the heart can truly be taken as submission to God. God has never told man how to think, only what and what not to do, or how to act.
totally agree......

prometeus wrote: Subsequently came Mohamed. And this is where things started to part. What was till then a faith in a loving and kind God, was changed into a violent one, a vengeance filled one, in whose name men killed men, imposed their will upon each other and Islam was born. Although Islam holds Mohamed to be God’s messenger, clearly valid questions can be raised about him, and whether he fits the “role.” Beyond a doubt, Mohamed has his merits in bringing the pagan tribes to believe in the One True God, that making him a sort of missionary, but him being ‘the messenger’ of God is not something any Christian, or Jew for that matter, can accept.
Muslims will readily argue that we do not have to believe or accept Mohamed, but on the other hand when we see what is done at his urging, based on what he said, we can not but speak up against these practices.
An other argument raised by Muslims, and I do not question their sincerity, just the validity, is that Islam is not practiced the right way, extremists perpetrate the bad things and Islam is a religion of peace and love. Now considering that there are well over a billion Muslims in the world, I find it impossible to accept that the vast multitude can not prevail over the few extremists, and bring about that peaceful and loving faith.
The reality that shows the violent, intolerant, and abusive aspect of the practices in the Muslim world remains in stark contrast of what a few enlightened people argue.
I am not talking about the suicide bomber, who in his desire to please God, is mislead into believing falsely and into committing such a cruelty, I am talking about thousands and thousands, marching and professing hatred, demanding death to the “great satan.”
I am talking about nations that have laws that punish by death conversion from Islam, I am talking about nations that forbid even the existence of other ‘houses’ of worship’ than mosques. There is hardly a need to continue the list, to deny it is to deny reality.

well, as you said dont believe in him if dont want to......mostly you are right, but mohammad didnt come for fighting....it is the jew who started fighting so god sent gabriel to mohammad in order to fight, it is all written in the quran....first they weren't supposed to fight, then they were ordered by god to fight the men who are fighting not the women or children, not the elderly or men who are not fighting, not even cutting trees or killing animals, unlike the jews in palestine who tend to destroy the palestinian crops which is their income source.....as for the bombing, the muslims cant stop them because they are so smart and good in their job nobody can suspect them, bombing oneself is wrong because god said fight the ones fighting you not kill yourself to kill them....., second if the UN and US left the countries to solve their own problems then everything will be fine, these people are so desperate, i am not defending them, but they cant argue with others as i and other muslims on this forum do...so that it is their only way....i know it is wrong......stopping them would very good, but it will only complicate things more because they will want to fight the people stopping them which are the muslims....it is kind of a severe stubborness in my opinion....

as for the countries, there are churches and temples in some islamic countries such as
egypt
jordon
tunis
morrocco
UAE
qatar (not sure but most probably)
syria
lebanon
as for the other countries i am not sure.....

[mendosan]

Quote: it is the jew

Typically blame it on the Jews.

[Zoot]

Muslima wrote: ALSALAM ALIKUM

well even though it is the islam section i would like to ask all non-muslims
a question

muslims you can argue but please don't try to answer

okay the question:

"WHY DO YOU ALL NON MUSLIMS HATE ISLAM? WHAT CAUSED YOU TO START HATING IT?"

please be honest as possible BUT answer in manners

Because all you Muslims like peanutbutter and are right-handed. I just can't stand it.

[Muslima]

Zoot wrote: Muslima wrote: ALSALAM ALIKUM

well even though it is the islam section i would like to ask all non-muslims
a question

muslims you can argue but please don't try to answer

okay the question:

"WHY DO YOU ALL NON MUSLIMS HATE ISLAM? WHAT CAUSED YOU TO START HATING IT?"

please be honest as possible BUT answer in manners

Because all you Muslims like peanutbutter and are right-handed. I just can't stand it.

what?

[Muslima]

mendosan wrote: Quote: it is the jew

Typically blame it on the Jews.

who are you quoting? me?

[binderdonedat]

Muslima wrote:
Quote: well, as you said dont believe in him if dont want to......mostly you are right, but mohammad didnt come for fighting....it is the jew who started fighting

ergo.... it's all the jews fault. I don't mean to interupt but it looks like that is exactly what you are doing, blaming the Jews.

[islandhopper]

Muslima wrote: ALSALAM ALIKUM

well even though it is the islam section i would like to ask all non-muslims
a question

muslims you can argue but please don't try to answer

okay the question:

"WHY DO YOU ALL NON MUSLIMS HATE ISLAM? WHAT CAUSED YOU TO START HATING IT?"

please be honest as possible BUT answer in manners

Since when do all non-muslims hate Islam? But I can tell you that people living in democracies find it very difficult to respect theocracies, such as what appears to be the case in many predominantly muslim countries. Theocracies only open the door for extremists to impose their will on the many. The Taliban extremists were in power (imagine equally extreme Christians having that kind of power in the USA) and did more harm than good. And that gives your religion a very bad name IMO.

[binderdonedat]

islandhopper wrote: Muslima wrote: ALSALAM ALIKUM

well even though it is the islam section i would like to ask all non-muslims
a question

muslims you can argue but please don't try to answer

okay the question:

"WHY DO YOU ALL NON MUSLIMS HATE ISLAM? WHAT CAUSED YOU TO START HATING IT?"

please be honest as possible BUT answer in manners

Since when do all non-muslims hate Islam? But I can tell you that people living in democracies find it very difficult to respect theocracies, such as what appears to be the case in many predominantly muslim countries. Theocracies only open the door for extremists to impose their will on the many. The Taliban extremists were in power (imagine equally extreme Christians having that kind of power in the USA) and did more harm than good. And that gives your religion a very bad name IMO.

I agree. For me, "hating" Islam would assume that I care enough about what Islam represents, and I don't (no disrespect meant). Honestly I have many Muslim friends, people I care about a great deal. I care about them as people, and I have no opinion on the God they worship. The only people in this world that I actually can hate are those who kill or abuse others for their own purposes or ideals.

I think that Islam is being very poorly represented by the media and by its' own leadership - in large part because of those who commit atrocities and acts of violence using the name of your God. In so much as what most of the west can see, there is no real convincing and concerted effort by your religion to condemn and agressively combat such consistent violent associations.

I have argued this before and the response was that Islam is too sectarian to be unified and cohesive, and therefore unable to effectively rise against the radical Jihadists. To me, this argument is just another example of how your faith is mired in a confusion of differing interpretations that inevitably leads to violence. If the Islamic world can't band together - if only to purge itself of the groups committing murder and terrorism - there is just no good reason for us to believe it can be a religion of peace.

When these horrid acts occur in the world, most of what we see from the "organised" Islamic world is that of small apologies and quiet disgust, and this does nothing to quell the suspiscions levelled against Muslims nor combat the problems you face as a religion that swears by the love of God and peace.

Also I think there is almost an elemental fear that free people have - that if we are not very careful the kind of archaic laws and opression found in some Islamic nations may end up on our doorstep. There is no free man or woman willing to accept a world where you can die simply from drawing an offensive picture, or be stoned to death for an implied sexual discretion. Yes these are harsh examples of Islamic influence, but fear will always lead people to believe the worst case scenario.

If you really wish to combat Islamophobia Muslima, I would suggest you find a way to get Islamic leaders to band together and loudly, publicly and aggressively win some battles against the terrorists that have stained your faith. Stop allowing the Quran to be misused in the world as a manual of hate and isolation; get pilgrimages together and go live and teach in the places where religious bigotry is the only education for young and easily influenced minds. Work hard to offer alternatives to the frenzy and mob mentality that so easily grips Muslim people. Stop allowing safe haven to those ideals that perpetuate violence and stop your leaders from looking the other way when something as important as God is being improperly used as a vessel of destruction.

[Muslima]

binderdonedat wrote: Muslima wrote:
Quote: well, as you said dont believe in him if dont want to......mostly you are right, but mohammad didnt come for fighting....it is the jew who started fighting

ergo.... it's all the jews fault. I don't mean to interupt but it looks like that is exactly what you are doing, blaming the Jews.

I am right, they are the ones who started throwing their garbage in front of the prophet's door and they are the ones who put poison in his food

of course non jews also started it, maybe even before the jews!

[Muslima]

binderdonedat......

your post is really what made me open this thread, because many non muslims hate, sorry for repeating this word, muslims just because they are muslims since they always relate islam to terrorism, we muslims are annoyed with terrorists!

i have seen many videos that interview people who dont want anyhting relating to islam, they dont want to even meet a muslim......i don't know what in islam that is bothering them? the whole islam?

as for the leaders, i am not political person or someone with great influence or power, i am just a normal person i am trying to do my best..and one of them is my membership in this forum.........believe terrorists are not islamic, in my opinion, i think they just do it out of weakness......it started this way but now it is a way to blackmail people, they are uncovered mafia!

[Robin Hood]

Quote: because many non muslims hate, sorry for repeating this word, muslims just because they are muslims

I don't think I know anyone who hates Muslims....on the other hand I do know many people who hate authoritarians. The two have been twisted into the same thing in the minds of many Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Twisted by actions like calling for the deaths of cartoonists, 'apostates', hanging homosexuals, and demanding that pop singers be punished. Unless the two strands of thought are seperated, and since they were tied together by nominal Muslims they have to be untied by Muslims, then Islam will be effectively dead by the turn of the next century.

[Muslima]

Robin Hood wrote: Quote: because many non muslims hate, sorry for repeating this word, muslims just because they are muslims

I don't think I know anyone who hates Muslims....on the other hand I do know many people who hate authoritarians. The two have been twisted into the same thing in the minds of many Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Twisted by actions like calling for the deaths of cartoonists, 'apostates', hanging homosexuals, and demanding that pop singers be punished. Unless the two strands of thought are seperated, and since they were tied together by nominal Muslims they have to be untied by Muslims, then Islam will be effectively dead by the turn of the next century.

islam WILL NOT be effectively dead till the day of judgement