Political Crossfire Forums

LittleAcorn · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 24 Location: NH

Honestly, I'm pretty sick of all these "pro-lifers" not just on this forum, but everywhere, saying that women should put unwanted children up for adoption, instead of having them aborted. However, there's a problem with that: Adoption isn't for everyone. I could go on and on about why it isn't, but I won't.

The fact is, would you adopt that unwanted child? I don't think a person should be able to argue that adoption is the answer until they are willing to adopt a child themselves. Therefore, the government should be working on making abortions unnecessary, not illeagl. For instance: more people should adopt children, help a single parent, and be a mentor to a child. Now, "pro-lifers", if this happened, you wouldn't have to argue anymore about "rights of the unborn".

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

there are 4000 catholic adoption centers around the country and 3000 crisis pregnancy centers that are willing to help support the mother before during and after birth.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

I agree 99% with your post. I strongly encourage everyone to adopt a child if they can support it in the least. I am practicing abstenence right now because Im not at a point in my life where I can support a child. (before the imature responses are thrown my way, yes Ive had multiple oppertunities to have sex while practicing abstenence.) Im not a virgin no, but I was young and stupid and didnt share the cares I currently have concerning abortion.
I strongly encourage practicing safe sex and education and any other means possible to prevent abortions.

That does not however negate the fact that abortions are nothing less than the complete theft of a unique human individuals life and should be ILLEGAL if the parents consented to having sex and the child poses no immediate threat to the mothers health. I dont care if theyll happen anyways at greater risk to the mother. Murder should be illegal regardless who it might benefit.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: there are 4000 catholic adoption centers around the country and 3000 crisis pregnancy centers that are willing to help support the mother before during and after birth. After birth? Really? They pay the tuition, the doctors bills etc? Or are you lying again?

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: After birth? Really? They pay the tuition, the doctors bills etc? Or are you lying again? What does this have to do with murdering an unborn child.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: After birth? Really? They pay the tuition, the doctors bills etc? Or are you lying again? What does this have to do with murdering an unborn child.

Exactly, there is no conenction because there is no murder, and no child.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Exactly, there is no conenction because there is no murder, and no child. There is an unborn child you condone the murder of. That child was created by its parents at conception through sexual reproduction and will continue to grow into an adult or not on its own inside the mother. From conception it has its own body and own genetic blueprints which will continiously develop into an adult until you kill it.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

AllAmericanMan wrote: There is an unborn child you condone the murder of. That child was created by its parents at conception through sexual reproduction and will continue to grow into an adult or not on its own inside the mother. From conception it has its own body and own genetic blueprints which will continiously develop into an adult until you kill it.

I don't condone the murder of anyone. But then again, for abortion to be murder two things would have to change:

1) The action would have to be illegal.

2) A human being would have to be killed.

Under American law, an embryo is not a human life, therefore it has no rights or protection. You can call an embryo whatever you wish, but if you wish to define it under legal, objective, terms, then an embryo is not a human being, and abortion is not murder.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Under American law, an embryo is not a human life, therefore it has no rights or protection. You can call an embryo whatever you wish, but if you wish to define it under legal, objective, terms, then an embryo is not a human being, and abortion is not murder.

Thats what the whole debate is about. Simply calling it wrong isnt debating.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

AllAmericanMan wrote: Thats what the whole debate is about. Simply calling it wrong isnt debating.

You misread my claims. I stated that you can call it whatever you wish in the context of your own opinion, but under general law, an embryo is not a child. Since the law is the only source of a general definition, what it states is what is when speaking for general society. While you or I may not exactly agree with it, we are entitled to our own opinions, but that logic also states that the mother can decide their own opinion as to their own bodies. The law is what determines the objective, and right now, abortion is not murder, and an embryo is not a child.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Yes but this enitre forum is dedicated to debating that law. If i cant refer to the human life as I believe it exists, it becomes extremely difficult to argue my viewpoint.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7657

AllAmericanMan wrote: Yes but this enitre forum is dedicated to debating that law. If i cant refer to the human life as I believe it exists, it becomes extremely difficult to argue my viewpoint.

You can argue your definitions of life for general society to decide, but as soon as your wish to turn those definitions into legal issues, you must use legal definitions.

whatnotwho · Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 485

Oh well, I thought unnecessary was going to mean not getting pregnant to start with. Abortion is birth control for irresponsible men and women.

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Quote: Oh well, I thought unnecessary was going to mean not getting pregnant to start with. Abortion is birth control for irresponsible men and women.
:clap:

Plodder · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 803 Location: USA

Quote: I don't condone the murder of anyone. But then again, for abortion to be murder two things would have to change:

1) The action would have to be illegal.

2) A human being would have to be killed.

Under American law, an embryo is not a human life, therefore it has no rights or protection. You can call an embryo whatever you wish, but if you wish to define it under legal, objective, terms, then an embryo is not a human being, and abortion is not murder.

1) hitler did his killing all legally and it was still murder.
2) it is human life and your arument that it is potetial life is groundless pipe dreams.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: After birth? Really? They pay the tuition, the doctors bills etc? Or are you lying again? What does this have to do with murdering an unborn child. Nothing has anything to do with the murder of children as it is not occuring. But the issue IS about the silly claim of catholics providing meaningful help for women after they give birth.

So again, please show whare the child's medical expenses etc are covered by these "helping" fundie clubs.

No? So it was a lie. Again, no surprise; just further confirmation of how much the pro-lifers lie.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Exactly, there is no conenction because there is no murder, and no child. There is an unborn child you condone the murder of. Oh, look. Another lying fundie pro-lifers. This is beginning to be as common as snow in a Minnesota winter.

Quote: That child was created by its parents at conception through sexual reproduction False.

Quote: and will continue to grow into an adult or not on its own inside the mother. False.

Quote: From conception it has its own body and own genetic blueprints No different than the hydatidiform mole.

Quote: which will continiously develop into an adult until you kill it. Given that about 3/4 of all zygotes eventually flush into the sewer, that's another falsehood.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: Under American law, an embryo is not a human life, therefore it has no rights or protection. You can call an embryo whatever you wish, but if you wish to define it under legal, objective, terms, then an embryo is not a human being, and abortion is not murder. Thats what the whole debate is about. Simply calling it wrong isnt debating. As long as you spew lies, there is no debate.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

Plodder wrote: 1) hitler did his killing all legally and it was still murder. You are lying.

steen · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 1430 Location: Upper Midwest

AllAmericanMan wrote: Yes but this enitre forum is dedicated to debating that law. If i cant refer to the human life as I believe it exists, it becomes extremely difficult to argue my viewpoint. Because your viewpoint is based on lies and misrepresentations. flat-earthier will also have difficulty making his argument within the parameters of reality. This is evidence of the weakness of your argument, nothing else.