Political Crossfire Forums

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd · Joined: 28 Apr 2006 Posts: 29

I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5268 Location: Boston, MA

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.

I think it is self centered to think one can define billions of people in a single paragraph.

The "reasons" for people's faith are as varied as the reasons for anything else within this life.

To oversimplify religion insults one's own intelligence as much as it insults the intelligence of the religious. Itcan reveal an inability to consider one's own shallowness and fear in light of the same subject. It is no different than those religious folks who accuse atheists of lacking a moral compass, it just isn't that simple.

So in answer to what seems like a loaded question, faith is not simply a fearful reaction by petrified morons who seek comfort in the delusion of an afterlife.

soldierofchrist · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 1622 Location: St Marys, GA

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.
I think you're wrong. I don't think Faith, of any kind comes from fear of the afterlife, well maybe some does, but is that really Faith then? I don't think so. True Faith comes from within and it is pushed outward. True Faith does not come from without, and push itself in. You can never really, in my opinion, state why a person has faith...only that he does and it should be evidenced by his actions on a daily basis. And do not give me the guise of open mindedness, when you trash one Faith, you might as well trash them all. Tear down Christians and Christianity, you might as well tear down all other faiths.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.

I think you are right, at least partially. Although this isn't the only reason, the fear of "what happens to me after I die?" does bring people to religion(s) - that is a fact. However, if there isn't 'something' there in that religion that speaks to you, then you probably wouldn't stay in that religion (at least that seems to be common sense). Some people come to religion because they are searching for something. Some people find it, other don't.
You asked: "...do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in?". I doubt many christians (maybe even ¾ of christians) fully think about what they believe in. In addition, these same people probably are blind followers that never ask questions because they are cooditioned not to or just believe whatever they are told & don't have any questions to ask. Many of these people do need something to believe in & so follow christianity for various, relativley wrong, reasons.
It really puts a 'damper' on how the remainder of christians that are true followers of Jesus are perceived.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 8946

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.

While I actually rejected my Catholic faith, I don't think it's fair to try and justify anyone's beliefs. Faith is belief without reason. Logic and religion are near polar opposites, so it's incredibly hard to have someone try and explain their creed. Personally, I think that everyone believes something for their own reasons, and it's not fair to force someone else to try and explain their faith.

Snarf · Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 5459

People of faith have it because they are raised in societies that support faith. Religions, systems of faith, come about as people search for answers and meaning, and over time, those answers that fit society best are codified and simplified, saving time for those who accept the dogmas without serious questions, allowing them to plow the fields and raise children without requiring them ask again and again the unanswerable questions of life. With simple answers you can live a simple life, and know that you have the blessings of ‘X’.

As society changes, the dogma must change or it gets ignored, just as the modern US ignores most the Catholic beliefs and modern Christians don’t live like Christians of 2,000 years ago. Most people in the US accept the overarching dogmas on God because that helps them make sense of their life and their surroundings, and there is a lot of support for faith here. When they see green grass, they think God made this, which is easier than seeking the truth as to why grass is green and how it came about, the last part having the uncomfortable answer of ‘because’. They do not know, and probably don't care, that the earth was once purple and that more than 99% of everything that has ever lived on it is now extinct. Our day is coming and some fear that, pushing them towards Afterlife beliefs. Most are just reaching out to God for the lack of a more acceptable and comforting answer…

MJB · Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 594

I don't think it has anything to do with fear for most people, at least it doesn't for me. I think it has to do with the inability to fathom the beauty and wonder of life, as having no purpose, and that once one dies, that is the end of his existence. That makes no sense to me.

Man is endowed with much too much hope, wonder, curiosity, creativity, and interest, not to mention his ability to love others so deeply, to never have the potential of seeing all of those things fulfilled, and only to live in a temporary food chain existence, and then cease, and be no more, after just a few years of earth life.

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject:

Snarf wrote: People of faith have it because they are raised in societies that support faith. Religions, systems of faith, come about as people search for answers and meaning, and over time, those answers that fit society best are codified and simplified, saving time for those who accept the dogmas without serious questions, allowing them to plow the fields and raise children without requiring them ask again and again the unanswerable questions of life. With simple answers you can live a simple life, and know that you have the blessings of ‘X’.

As society changes, the dogma must change or it gets ignored, just as the modern US ignores most the Catholic beliefs and modern Christians don’t live like Christians of 2,000 years ago. Most people in the US accept the overarching dogmas on God because that helps them make sense of their life and their surroundings, and there is a lot of support for faith here. When they see green grass, they think God made this, which is easier than seeking the truth as to why grass is green and how it came about, the last part having the uncomfortable answer of ‘because’. They do not know, and probably don't care, that the earth was once purple and that more than 99% of everything that has ever lived on it is now extinct. Our day is coming and some fear that, pushing them towards Afterlife beliefs. Most are just reaching out to God for the lack of a more acceptable and comforting answer…

No matter how clever the generalization may be, it's still a generalization. Gilbert has the right of this: people believe or disbelieve for their own reasons. Trying to lump all of those reasons together in a group is incredibly asinine. It's like trying to explain why millions of people like Star Wars. Sure you could claim that it's the modern myth that we have all grown up with, and it is ingrained in our society; however, that's just not enough to explain why people like it.

eXploiTeD · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 8086

Good question, and great answers, particularly:

Snarf wrote: People of faith have it because they are raised in societies that support faith. Religions, systems of faith, come about as people search for answers and meaning, and over time, those answers that fit society best are codified and simplified, saving time for those who accept the dogmas without serious questions, allowing them to plow the fields and raise children without requiring them ask again and again the unanswerable questions of life. With simple answers you can live a simple life, and know that you have the blessings of ‘X’.

As society changes, the dogma must change or it gets ignored, just as the modern US ignores most the Catholic beliefs and modern Christians don’t live like Christians of 2,000 years ago. Most people in the US accept the overarching dogmas on God because that helps them make sense of their life and their surroundings, and there is a lot of support for faith here. When they see green grass, they think God made this, which is easier than seeking the truth as to why grass is green and how it came about, the last part having the uncomfortable answer of ‘because’. They do not know, and probably don't care, that the earth was once purple and that more than 99% of everything that has ever lived on it is now extinct. Our day is coming and some fear that, pushing them towards Afterlife beliefs. Most are just reaching out to God for the lack of a more acceptable and comforting answer…

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: No matter how clever the generalization may be, it's still a generalization. Gilbert has the right of this: people believe or disbelieve for their own reasons. Trying to lump all of those reasons together in a group is incredibly asinine. It's like trying to explain why millions of people like Star Wars. Sure you could claim that it's the modern myth that we have all grown up with, and it is ingrained in our society; however, that's just not enough to explain why people like it.

Both of these statements hold true. People believe, or disbelieve, for their own reasons... that is true. But, also true is the fact that most of are taught essentially the same religious concepts from birth. However "different" Islam, Judaism and Christianity appear to be, they teach the exact same concepts; their divergences stem from placing more weight on particular concepts, not a real and distinct difference in teachings.

So people believe or disbelieve for reasons of their own, but what they believe is largely determined by their relationships with one another (not with God). Thus, it is fair to say that the vast majority of people in this world follow a particular religion for one of two reasons: (1) because they are forced to, or (2) because it is easy.

Choosing a religion requires self-examination, and in turn, self-examination requires one to scrutinize certain universal concepts from different perspectives. Yet the operating principle of all religions is that faith is our salvation, and faith is demonstrated by one's adherance to certain dogmas. We needn't question these things because our answers have already been provided.

Gryff1nd0r · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Cambridge, MA

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think.

I agree with Gilbert, but I think that you are correct about A LOT of Christians. From my observations, many Christians are Christians simply because they were born into it. They never question anything about their religion, and they follow it only as long as it doesn't inconvenience them.

I think that they remain "religious" often because of fear, but also just because we live in a world where people are expected to identify with a religion, so... why not Christianity? All the cool people are doing it ya know. :wink:

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

God loves you Gryff1nd0r. :-D

He realy really does.

Gryff1nd0r · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Cambridge, MA

John wrote: God loves you Gryff1nd0r. :-D

He realy really does.

Aw thanks, now I feel all fuzzy inside.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

Gryff1nd0r wrote: John wrote: God loves you Gryff1nd0r. :-D

He realy really does.

Aw thanks, now I feel all fuzzy inside.

:flwr:

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject:

Does anyone other than me feel intense homoerotic vibes coming off John's avatar? I know it's supposed to be serious and dramatic and stuff, but that's not what I'm getting at all.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Does anyone other than me feel intense homoerotic vibes coming off John's avatar? I know it's supposed to be serious and dramatic and stuff, but that's not what I'm getting at all.

"That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

"All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject:

John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Does anyone other than me feel intense homoerotic vibes coming off John's avatar? I know it's supposed to be serious and dramatic and stuff, but that's not what I'm getting at all.

"That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

"All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

Thanks for reminding me that I'm f**ked up for thinking that a picture of Jesus embracing an attractive young man from behind, coyly exposing a little bit of flesh, is homoerotic. How tight are those pants? And that semi-orgasmic look on his face that's supposed to be contrition or something? Please. This is all wrong. It's making Jesus out to be totally dominant, when we all know he was a sub.

Yes, I'm impure and it comes from within. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 24244

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Does anyone other than me feel intense homoerotic vibes coming off John's avatar? I know it's supposed to be serious and dramatic and stuff, but that's not what I'm getting at all.

"That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

"All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

Thanks for reminding me that I'm f**ked up for thinking that a picture of Jesus embracing an attractive young man from behind, coyly exposing a little bit of flesh, is homoerotic. How tight are those pants? And that semi-orgasmic look on his face that's supposed to be contrition or something? Please. This is all wrong. It's making Jesus out to be totally dominant, when we all know he was a sub.

Yes, I'm impure and it comes from within. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

I didn't know you were so fond of Jesus.

Do you want me to change it?

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject:

John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Does anyone other than me feel intense homoerotic vibes coming off John's avatar? I know it's supposed to be serious and dramatic and stuff, but that's not what I'm getting at all.

"That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,

deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

"All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

Thanks for reminding me that I'm f**ked up for thinking that a picture of Jesus embracing an attractive young man from behind, coyly exposing a little bit of flesh, is homoerotic. How tight are those pants? And that semi-orgasmic look on his face that's supposed to be contrition or something? Please. This is all wrong. It's making Jesus out to be totally dominant, when we all know he was a sub.

Yes, I'm impure and it comes from within. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

I didn't know you were so fond of Jesus.

Do you want me to change it?

Of course not. That avatar isn't in the least bit offensive to me. "Homoerotic" is not a complaint, it's an observation, and it's only half-serious. You of course have the right to use whatever you want as your avatar. It would be poor form to actually b**** about a picture of Christ.

wormwood · Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 2670 Location: The P-Brane

Quote: Thanks for reminding me that I'm f**ked up for thinking that a picture of Jesus embracing an attractive young man from behind, coyly exposing a little bit of flesh, is homoerotic :lol: I nearly choked to death on my soda when I read this... thanks. :lol:

superchick · Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 6567 Location: US

PhIlOsOpHiCaL MiNd wrote: I have somewhat touched on this topic before but i want to go into more detail. I used to be a Christian when i was a little younger but i could never really grab onto it. My question is do people who are fully "christian" think about what they believe in, or do they just need something to believe in? I am begining to think its that they just need something to believe in because they are scared of what comes after this life, they need answers and more importantly, a reason. tell me what you guys think. I am actually the opposite of you. I believed in God as a child, I think we pretty much all do, and then after middle school, I become cynical, but "enlightened" and didn't believe in God, but as I got older I explored it and had my daughter. After seeing the miracles of her and how God has guided my life to wonderful wonderful amazing miracles since I turned my life to God, I am a believer. I don't think I will have a mansion in "heaven" I just think I will get to rest at peace, instead of living a life of conscietiousness for eternity. Imagine, in your grave, being able to think for eternity, but do nothing else. That would be hell for me, but I think heaven is really just truely, RIP.