Political Crossfire Forums

[social]

No such thing as a bad religion? And why, may I ask, did you believe that?

[Robodoon]

[quote="thefranzkafkafront"] Robodoon wrote: Prole wrote: Where does it say that blacks can't get into heaven?

Quote: Sura 3:106,107

Quote: "On the day when some faces will be whitened and some faces will be blackened, say to those whose faces will be blackened, 'Did ye reject faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting faith.' But those whose faces will be whitened, they will be in God's mercy: therein to dwell." (Sura Al-i-Imran, 3:106-107)

Notice the key word 'when' (please do rush to dig up other translations to try and prove me wrong you'll find diffrent varients such as)

Well isn't it Judgement day "On the day when"

Quote: Quote: [3:106] The day will come when some faces will be brightened (with joy), while other faces will be darkened (with misery). As for those whose faces are darkened, they will be asked, "Did you not disbelieve after believing? Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

(with joy) (with misery) did you add that?

[3:107] As for those whose faces are brightened, they will rejoice in GOD's mercy; they abide therein forever.

sounds just like any escatological parable out of the gospel of mathew.

Subsitute blackened for goats, or weeds and you have yourself either the parable of the wheat (mathew 13 24-30) or sheep and goats (mathew 25 31-46)

Text book escatology nothing more.

Well thats a good point... but the Bible really has nothing to do with the Koran, but for things stolen from it by Mohammad, lots of which he got wrong.

Quote: So ready to admit your wrong?

Well I'm not sure, you do make a good point, but then again,

Quote: "as to the attitude of Muhammad about balck people, he reffered to them as "rasin heads" in vol 1, no 662 and vol. 9 no. 256.
Throughout the Hadith, black people are referred to as slaves. If this is not insulting enough to black people, Muhammad felt that if someone dreamed of a black woman, she was an evil oman of a comming epidemic of disease (vol.9 nos. 162,163)" Page 182 The islamic invasion

And I don't seem to be the only one questioning the attitudes of Islam toward black people.

An African Asks Some Disturbing Questions of Islam
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t12.htm

I could be wrong about blacks being welcomed into the Islamic heaven, but then again the Islamic heaven, is not the Heaven of the Bible. It might be a good thing if they don't since Islams version of heaven is nothing close to heavenly....it seems closer to satanic to me. ;) But yes I could be wrong on blacks going into Islamic heaven, but... ;)

[LordMortis]

[quote="social"]No such thing as a bad religion? And why, may I ask, did you believe that?[/quote]

Firstly, [i]do[/i]. Second, I believe that the only true problem arises when someone bends religion to their own ends. When it is a religion like Christianity, Bhuddism, or Judaism that all scream "Love your neighbor! Peace and good will!" how can it be bad? The problem is some people who look at the holy text and find one little thing that is a contradiction to the rest of the text and says, "Aha! Everyone who isn't greedy is going to hell!"

[Cato]

Quote: Quote: Where does it say that blacks can't get into heaven?

Sura 3:106,107

My Qur'an reads:

'On the day when some faces would be bright,
and some will be black with despair,
those with black faces will be told,
"Having come to the faith, you denied it;
now taste therefore the penalty, for you disbelieved . . ."'

So, only non-believers can despair, and thus those with black, mournful faces (i.e. those in despair) are non-believers; this is what the passage is saying. You've misread it, and I think that's pretty obvious...

I should point out that 'black face' is a colloquial phrase used even today in referral to a sorrowful expression. This is a rather pathetic attempt at vilifying a religious passage. (Now, my quote from Job, on the other hand... heh heh heh)

[Cato]

LordMortis wrote: When it is a religion like Christianity, Bhuddism, or Judaism that all scream "Love your neighbor! Peace and good will!" how can it be bad? The problem is some people who look at the holy text and find one little thing that is a contradiction to the rest of the text and says, "Aha! Everyone who isn't greedy is going to hell!"

My friend, the problem with religion is that it allows for one to act without considering the consequences of one's actions; it is for this, and this reason alone that religions with seemingly 'good' tenants are corruptible.

When you live by a moral hand-book, it is moral for you to abide by what's in that handbook, period. You can act only by the rules you're provided, and therefore needn't trouble yourself with actually thinking through moral problems. The highly religious don't ask themselves, 'is this action moral?', but instead, 'does dogma stipulate that this action is moral?' or, more pointedly, 'am I allowed?'

When your dogma is as sprawling and convoluted as the Bible and the orthodoxical beliefs of the christian Church, you can justify pretty well anything (so long as your justification is provided to you by an authority, whether that be a figure-head of the church, or the Bible itself)...

[grapefruit of wisdom]

Robodoon wrote:

Islam is the biggest Slaver of black people on the PLANET.

Mohammad calls you "rasinheads".


Actually Muhammad was the one that spoke out against slavery and said you can have slaves only if you can take care of them, and that furthermore you should treat them as family.
In comparison to some of the horrific treatment of black slaves in Japanese silver mines, South American silver mines and North American plantation mines The treatment of slaves in the Middle East made all the slaves in the world want to have a Muslim for a master.

[thefranzkafkafront]

Robodoon wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: Robodoon wrote: Prole wrote: Where does it say that blacks can't get into heaven?

Quote: Sura 3:106,107

Quote: "On the day when some faces will be whitened and some faces will be blackened, say to those whose faces will be blackened, 'Did ye reject faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting faith.' But those whose faces will be whitened, they will be in God's mercy: therein to dwell." (Sura Al-i-Imran, 3:106-107)

Notice the key word 'when' (please do rush to dig up other translations to try and prove me wrong you'll find diffrent varients such as)

Well isn't it Judgement day "On the day when"
Escatological Paralbes in the gospel and indeed in the O.T won't allways directly refer to the day of judgement, its quite clear that its what this is refering to as its talking in the future tense.

Quote: Quote: [3:106] The day will come when some faces will be brightened (with joy), while other faces will be darkened (with misery). As for those whose faces are darkened, they will be asked, "Did you not disbelieve after believing? Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief."

(with joy) (with misery) did you add that?
Nope its a second varient reading, its fairly easy to find many many more, the same sort of stuff happens with the bible as well.

Quote:
[3:107] As for those whose faces are brightened, they will rejoice in GOD's mercy; they abide therein forever.

sounds just like any escatological parable out of the gospel of mathew.

Subsitute blackened for goats, or weeds and you have yourself either the parable of the wheat (mathew 13 24-30) or sheep and goats (mathew 25 31-46)

Text book escatology nothing more.[/quote]

Well thats a good point... but the Bible really has nothing to do with the Koran, but for things stolen from it by Mohammad, lots of which he got wrong.
[/quote]
Escatology is not confined the bible, and the direct relationship between the qu'ran and the bible has nothing to do with this debate.

Quote: Quote: So ready to admit your wrong?

Well I'm not sure, you do make a good point, but then again,

Quote: "as to the attitude of Muhammad about balck people, he reffered to them as "rasin heads" in vol 1, no 662 and vol. 9 no. 256.
Throughout the Hadith, black people are referred to as slaves. If this is not insulting enough to black people, Muhammad felt that if someone dreamed of a black woman, she was an evil oman of a comming epidemic of disease (vol.9 nos. 162,163)" Page 182 The islamic invasion

And I don't seem to be the only one questioning the attitudes of Islam toward black people.

An African Asks Some Disturbing Questions of Islam
http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t12.htm

I could be wrong about blacks being welcomed into the Islamic heaven, but then again the Islamic heaven, is not the Heaven of the Bible. It might be a good thing if they don't since Islams version of heaven is nothing close to heavenly....it seems closer to satanic to me. ;) But yes I could be wrong on blacks going into Islamic heaven, but... ;)

Of course islam has a less than perfect past on race relations, evey relgion dose. However Look up the principles of the Haji, they illustrate islams view on race quite clearly.