Political Crossfire Forums

[American Ceasar]

Fascism was discredited because of its military defeat in WW2 and due to the horrors Nazi Germany unleashed on the peoples of Europe. However, prior to WW2, Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany were economic beehives that weathered and recovered from the Great Depression.

Here is my question, has Fascism been discredited as an economic system and were Italy and Germany Fascist economic success stories prior to WW2? Why were the Fascist economies of Germany and Italy successful if they were? Could any nation today played the game Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany played in the 1930s?

[mojo]

The Slave labor of millions of Jews does not count as an economic success.

[Gremlin]

politicalmojo wrote: The Slave labor of millions of Jews does not count as an economic success.


That was during the war, not before... just a small detail.

[red dragon]

Isn;t part of facism a strong military, strong industrial base and patriotism??? Which country does that remind me of :think: :think: :think: :think:

14 points of facism

Tongue firmly in cheek.[/quote]

[Colt_45]

red dragon wrote: Isn;t part of facism a strong military, strong industrial base and patriotism??? Which country does that remind me of :think: :think: :think: :think:

14 points of facism

Tongue firmly in cheek.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Fascism

Quote: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Nothing about strong military in there, nor a strong economic base, perhaps you meant economic "strangle-hold?" You can be a facist nation and have a small army.

You my friend are thinking of national socialism.

[red dragon]

Quote: Nothing about strong military in there, nor a strong ecomic base, perhaps you meant economic "strangle-hold?" You can be a facist nation and have a small army.

You my friend are thinking of national socialism.

Did you watch the film I provided

[enjoivolcom]

Hitler, forcefully or not, had total cooperation from his people...everyone in nazi germany worked harder because they thought it was for the betterment of their supperior race. there are man things one can do, economically and militarily, with full cooperation.

[Snoop]

I guess in many ways fascist Germany could be considered a success.

With out a doubt it transformed a broken and war ravished nation into a leading global power in a vary short period of time.

[red dragon]

Quote:
Nothing about strong military in there, nor a strong economic base, perhaps you meant economic "strangle-hold?" You can be a facist nation and have a small army.

You my friend are thinking of national socialism.

Isn't that what this thread is about? Nationalist Socialism?

[Colt_45]

Quote: Did you watch the film I provided

Yes, but it was a crock of s**t.

1) I'm sure all over the world people fly their nations flag in the streets, s**t Mexicans even do it in someone else's. Does this make them fascist?

2) Many countries put out stable military programs that they feel can meet whatever threat they may encounter, and last time I checked, social welfare is on the rise in the US, so that whole point is lost.

3) Everyone has an enemy. Does this mean that everyone is a facist?

4) He laughably assumes that FOX News is the only "gov-controlled" network; If it's the only one, and not many people watch it, maybe CNN needs to step it up a little.

5) Cronyism exist in all forms of government.

6) Sexism? LMAO

7) Mixed with religion? puh-lease.

[enjoivolcom]

Snoop wrote: I guess in many ways fascist Germany could be considered a success.

With out a doubt it transformed a broken and war ravished nation into a leading global power in a vary short period of time.

Coming out of WWI Germany was a poversih nation full of tenaments and what not. They also had a big hole to climb out of with the reperations they owed from the treaty of versailles. So along comes something called fascism promising to disregard the treaty and restore germany to a superpower. It took a few years but eventually most of Germany was on board.

[Colt_45]

Quote: Isn't that what this thread is about? Nationalist Socialism?

I thought it was about fascism, which is actually a more oppressive form of national socialism, as it controls by fear and not real power granted by the people.

[Colt_45]

Quote: With out a doubt it transformed a broken and war ravished nation into a leading global power in a vary short period of time.

The war didn't really ravish the nation, it was the unjust burden that was put upon them after WW1, a situation which helped get Hitler elected in the first place.

[Chymical]

Bal-Der-Dash

there has never been a 'strong economy' in the history of this whole stinking diseased mass of humanity, be it fascistly governed or not. Show me a place where the poor are not poor and do not feel poor and suffer the consequences every day of their lives, then success canbe measured and governmental systems can metaphorically puff their chests out....until then gre aiohbaefl awdf wcd knicknasq2anjafb af KNICKERS...

I don't like mondays...sorry....

[malignantpoodle]

Chymical wrote: Bal-Der-Dash

there has never been a 'strong economy' in the history of this whole stinking diseased mass of humanity, be it fascistly governed or not. Show me a place where the poor are not poor and do not feel poor and suffer the consequences every day of their lives, then success canbe measured and governmental systems can metaphorically puff their chests out....until then gre aiohbaefl awdf wcd knicknasq2anjafb af KNICKERS...

I don't like mondays...sorry....
Luxembourg? :P

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$55,600 (2005 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 1%industry: 13%services: 86% (2005 est.)
Labor force:
316,500 of whom 121,600 are foreign cross-border workers commuting primarily from France, Belgium, and Germany (2005 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture 1%, industry 13%, services 86% (2004 est.)
Unemployment rate:
4.9% (2005 est.)
Population below poverty line:
NA%

55k per capita! wow. NA% below poverty line.

chymical; was that what you were looking for? (I'm just giving you a hard time man I know next to nothing about the place).

As far as Italy and Germany. Their systems produced good results early on, and if that was the only thing to consider then you might be on to something here.

The fact that such brutal methods were used that eventually drew the attention of the rest of the world was a bit counterproductive in their endeavors, don't ya think?
I mean I can get rich robbing banks. Maybe even equate it to something like $500/hour, but if you consider everything else going on other than the profit, like organized crime fascist Germany and Italy suck.

[Colt_45]

malignantpoodle wrote: Chymical wrote: Bal-Der-Dash

there has never been a 'strong economy' in the history of this whole stinking diseased mass of humanity, be it fascistly governed or not. Show me a place where the poor are not poor and do not feel poor and suffer the consequences every day of their lives, then success canbe measured and governmental systems can metaphorically puff their chests out....until then gre aiohbaefl awdf wcd knicknasq2anjafb af KNICKERS...

I don't like mondays...sorry....
Luxembourg? :P

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$55,600 (2005 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 1%industry: 13%services: 86% (2005 est.)
Labor force:
316,500 of whom 121,600 are foreign cross-border workers commuting primarily from France, Belgium, and Germany (2005 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture 1%, industry 13%, services 86% (2004 est.)
Unemployment rate:
4.9% (2005 est.)
Population below poverty line:
NA%

55k per capita! wow. NA% below poverty line.

chymical; was that what you were looking for?


Luxembourg has less then 500,000 citizens, and relies heavily on out-of-country workers. In a sum, they have it made, especially with the foreign workers since they won't use much of the nation's social services, like stuff other than general usage items (roads, sewers.)

But I have to ask how a nation with 4.9% unemployment has no one under the poverty line, especially given that they rely on foreign workers, who are not included in the 4.9%.

4.9% of 474,413 (Luxembourg pop) is around 23,000. Somebody in that category has to be below the poverty level, especially if a foreigner took their job.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:cnafGWhMzF0J:www.socstats.soton.ac.uk/staff/micklewright/M_S_New%2520Economy.DOC+poverty+level+of+luxembourg&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9

According to this Luxembourg has an income poverty rate of 14%.

[Gremlin]

Colt_45 wrote: You my friend are thinking of national socialism.



... :lol: ... Patriot Act... ...No child left behind... ...Clean skys BS act... Same s**t same commie.

[Colt_45]

Quote: ... ... Patriot Act

Ok, this was a little over-reaching and I hope it dies.

Quote: .. ...No child left behind

This is fascism? Please tell me you're joking. I don't neccessarily like NCLB, but I wouldn't call it fascism.

Quote: ... ...Clean skys BS act

Now you're reaching.

[Gremlin]

Colt 45... national socialism.


Gremlin wrote: Colt_45 wrote: You my friend are thinking of national socialism.



... :lol: ... Patriot Act... ...No child left behind... ...Clean skys BS act... Same s**t same commie.


Centralizing the government and becoming less transparent, at the same time socializing programs threw the government. Fascism is more practice then law. Fascism is more of a result rather then a policy. I was only pointing out that we still basically leading up to the same commies. Socialist or fascist... what ever.

[Gremlin]

enjoivolcom wrote: Snoop wrote: I guess in many ways fascist Germany could be considered a success.

With out a doubt it transformed a broken and war ravished nation into a leading global power in a vary short period of time.

Coming out of WWI Germany was a poversih nation full of tenaments and what not. They also had a big hole to climb out of with the reperations they owed from the treaty of versailles. So along comes something called fascism promising to disregard the treaty and restore germany to a superpower. It took a few years but eventually most of Germany was on board.



What a fun ride that turned out to be.

/sarcasm.