Political Crossfire Forums

[Duchifas]

For those among us who prefer to "wait and see" what course of action Hamas will take...

Quote: Hamas operatives caught; confess to planning terror cell
Yaakov Katz, THE JERUSALEM POST May. 11, 2006

The Shin Bet (Israel's security service) released for publication Thursday that two Hamas operatives from the Jabalya refugee camp were arrested in April after infiltrating from the Sinai Peninsula. They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

The two, Razek Ahmed Mahmad Sha'aban and Gama Ibrahim Issa Aza were caught near Mount Harif in possession of two guns, two grenades and some $2,300.

They said that they received instuctions from senior Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip, who told them that they were to be absorbed into the West Bank.

They were apprehended three weeks after another Hamas operative was arrested in Tulkarm on April 29, after being sent to the West Bank from Gaza. He was also planning to begin laying the infrastructure for a new terror cell.

Sha'aban was released in 2002 from an Israeli jail after serving a five year sentence for Hamas membership and involvement in planning terror attacks and kidnappings.

During his interrogation he told the Shin Bet that Aza asked for Sha'aban's assistance with his Hamas-sponsered terrorist activities.

After agreeing to the request, head of Hamas in Jabalya Imam Mansur ordered Sha'aban to go to Ramallah with other Gaza-based Hamas operatives to establish a terror cell with the ultimate goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out attacks.

Mansur told Sha'aban that to reach the Gaza Strip he needed to infiltrate through the Sinai Peninsula and travel to Beersheba, driven by Palestinians illegally residing in the country.

In his interrogation, Aza revealed that the planned West Bank terror cell operated under the direction of the official Hamas leadership. He said that he met with the head of the Hamas military wing in the northern Gaza strip, and another top Hamas operative.

"The arrest of these operatives is another example of Hamas's incessant involvement in terrorism," said security officials.

jpost.com



So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

[MoscowMatt]

Old habits die hard eh!! Of course there are always stacks of people out there who are naive enough to believe that Hamas have swapped guns for politics!!

[uzi]

If you want more, there's more:

Jordan says Hamas trains recruits in Syria and Iran

Quote: Jordan says Hamas trains recruits in Syria and Iran

By Suleiman al-Khalidi

AMMAN (Reuters) - Jordan said on Wednesday that Hamas had tried to recruit activists for military training in Syria and Iran to stage possible attacks in Jordan and said it had found new weapons that included Iranian rocket launchers.

Government spokesman Nasser Joudeh told reporters details of the plot were revealed during interrogations of 20 Hamas militants arrested by security forces last month.

"Hamas was attempting to recruit elements in the Jordanian arena and trying to recruit elements from abroad to send to Syria and Iran to get military training," Joudeh said.


Jordan said last month rocket launchers, detonators and explosives seized from a secret Hamas arms cache in the kingdom had been smuggled from Syria, where the Palestinian militant group's exiled leadership is based.

Joudeh said authorities were still searching for other arms caches that Hamas had hidden across the country.

"The security forces believe there are more weapons and rocket launchers that have not been uncovered yet ... Among the weapons seized recently were Iranian rocket launchers," he said.

"This poses a major threat to the national security of the country and we will hold those behind this accountable," Joudeh said.

After the arms cache discovery, Jordan canceled a planned visit by Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar, which would have been the first by a Hamas leader since 1999. Continued...

[Duchifas]

MoscowMatt wrote: Old habits die hard eh!! Of course there are always stacks of people out there who are naive enough to believe that Hamas have swapped guns for politics!!

Well, I think it is more than a habit. I think it is a pathological refusal to acknowledge reality, because sometimes reality has a nasty habit of conflicting with one's ideas and agendas. Wilfull blindness is another way to describe the "wait and see" attitude.

So far, after posting on this forum for about 2 years in which Palestinian terrorism has been quite rampant along with anti-Jew incitement in the PA, both before and after election, I have yet to hear from EVEN ONE of the "wait and see" folks that they have waited and seen, and come to the realization that Palestinians and their Hamas do not want peace and that proper measures should be taken on that account. They never come to that realization, and they never will come to it, because they DON'T WANT TO. Because it doesn't suit their anti-Israel agenda.

Thus, they will proclaim that they "wait and see" ad infinitum, while in reality they are purposefully looking the other way as Palestinians continue to provide every possible proof that they do not want peace.

[Plato & Socrates]

Duchifas wrote: For those among us who prefer to "wait and see" what course of action Hamas will take...

Quote: Hamas operatives caught; confess to planning terror cell
Yaakov Katz, THE JERUSALEM POST May. 11, 2006

The Shin Bet (Israel's security service) released for publication Thursday that two Hamas operatives from the Jabalya refugee camp were arrested in April after infiltrating from the Sinai Peninsula. They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

The two, Razek Ahmed Mahmad Sha'aban and Gama Ibrahim Issa Aza were caught near Mount Harif in possession of two guns, two grenades and some $2,300.

They said that they received instuctions from senior Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip, who told them that they were to be absorbed into the West Bank.

They were apprehended three weeks after another Hamas operative was arrested in Tulkarm on April 29, after being sent to the West Bank from Gaza. He was also planning to begin laying the infrastructure for a new terror cell.

Sha'aban was released in 2002 from an Israeli jail after serving a five year sentence for Hamas membership and involvement in planning terror attacks and kidnappings.

During his interrogation he told the Shin Bet that Aza asked for Sha'aban's assistance with his Hamas-sponsered terrorist activities.

After agreeing to the request, head of Hamas in Jabalya Imam Mansur ordered Sha'aban to go to Ramallah with other Gaza-based Hamas operatives to establish a terror cell with the ultimate goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out attacks.

Mansur told Sha'aban that to reach the Gaza Strip he needed to infiltrate through the Sinai Peninsula and travel to Beersheba, driven by Palestinians illegally residing in the country.

In his interrogation, Aza revealed that the planned West Bank terror cell operated under the direction of the official Hamas leadership. He said that he met with the head of the Hamas military wing in the northern Gaza strip, and another top Hamas operative.

"The arrest of these operatives is another example of Hamas's incessant involvement in terrorism," said security officials.

jpost.com



So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

If they target soldiers Duchi how can it be described as a terror cell? Civilians yes and I will join the condemnation but army personel? You cant have it both ways Duchi !

[Duchifas]

Plato & Socrates wrote: If they target soldiers Duchi how can it be described as a terror cell? Civilians yes and I will join the condemnation but army personel? You cant have it both ways Duchi !

P & S, do you need a new reading glasses prescription perhaps?

article wrote: They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

How's that? A bit clearer now?

Good.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled "waiting and seeing" and ignoring reality.

[Plato & Socrates]

Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: If they target soldiers Duchi how can it be described as a terror cell? Civilians yes and I will join the condemnation but army personel? You cant have it both ways Duchi !

P & S, do you need a new reading glasses prescription perhaps?

article wrote: They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

How's that? A bit clearer now?

Good.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled "waiting and seeing" and ignoring reality.

I understood what you wrote Duchi, I just wanted to know the logic behind mentioning the plot of kidnapping soldiers, was it to puff out your story? If they killed soldiers, then according to most pro-israelis its a fair target. As for civilians, then has I mentioned i will join in the condemnation. Maybe you should read carefully what i wrote, because its pretty clear what i said.

[Duchifas]

Plato & Socrates wrote: Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: If they target soldiers Duchi how can it be described as a terror cell? Civilians yes and I will join the condemnation but army personel? You cant have it both ways Duchi !

P & S, do you need a new reading glasses prescription perhaps?

article wrote: They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

How's that? A bit clearer now?

Good.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled "waiting and seeing" and ignoring reality.

I understood what you wrote Duchi, I just wanted to know the logic behind mentioning the plot of kidnapping soldiers, was it to puff out your story? If they killed soldiers, then according to most pro-israelis its a fair target. As for civilians, then has I mentioned i will join in the condemnation. Maybe you should read carefully what i wrote, because its pretty clear what i said.

Are you familiar with the word "and" as it is used in the English language?

[Plato & Socrates]

Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: Duchifas wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: If they target soldiers Duchi how can it be described as a terror cell? Civilians yes and I will join the condemnation but army personel? You cant have it both ways Duchi !

P & S, do you need a new reading glasses prescription perhaps?

article wrote: They confessed to planning to establish a terror cell in the West Bank and in Israel, with the goal of kidnapping soldiers and carrying out terror attacks.

How's that? A bit clearer now?

Good.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled "waiting and seeing" and ignoring reality.

I understood what you wrote Duchi, I just wanted to know the logic behind mentioning the plot of kidnapping soldiers, was it to puff out your story? If they killed soldiers, then according to most pro-israelis its a fair target. As for civilians, then has I mentioned i will join in the condemnation. Maybe you should read carefully what i wrote, because its pretty clear what i said.

Are you familiar with the word "and" as it is used in the English language?

No. is it a verb or noun or pro noun?

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Duchifas wrote: So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

I admit, I am caught between a rock and a hard place. As I have said several times, the major problem within this conflict right now is about "identity". Until there is a fundamental shift in the way Palestinian identity and the Israeli identity are defined, then I am afraid that this conflict will be dragged on. And this identity shift is something that should start at childhood in most cases, but right now, it doesn't seem that with Hamas in power, anything could be done.

[cap'n queasy]

Here is the "identity" being inculcated in the PA:
http://www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_kidPoem.asx
http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_tabisho.asx

[Duchifas]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Duchifas wrote: So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

I admit, I am caught between a rock and a hard place.

Is it going to kill you to say that I am right? :)

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Duchifas wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Duchifas wrote: So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

I admit, I am caught between a rock and a hard place.

Is it going to kill you to say that I am right? :)

:lol: Well, you are right to a certain extent because as you usually say a worthless peace negotiation will not get anyone anywhere in this conflict. :)

[Pebble]

Fools.

[Duchifas]

Pebble wrote: Fools.

Care to clarify? Who are fools? Those who have always said they would use terror, or those who naively refuse to believe them?

[cap'n queasy]

Duchifas wrote: ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Duchifas wrote: So, Pebble, Toon, et al, still waiting and seeing? Or is reality slowly setting in for ya?

I admit, I am caught between a rock and a hard place.

Is it going to kill you to say that I am right? :) \

You gotta give the guy some credit. He basically did.

[Pebble]

Duchifas wrote: Pebble wrote: Fools.

Care to clarify? Who are fools? Those who have always said they would use terror, or those who naively refuse to believe them?

Neither.

Those Palestianians who have blown this latest chance for peace.

[Duchifas]

Pebble wrote: Duchifas wrote: Pebble wrote: Fools.

Care to clarify? Who are fools? Those who have always said they would use terror, or those who naively refuse to believe them?

Neither.

Those Palestianians who have blown this latest chance for peace.

Right.

So just to satisfy my curiosity, have you put two and two together already, or are you still in the "wait and see" mode?

If the latter, any idea when the waiting and seeing will materialize into drawing concrete conclusions?

[23KIA]

There is more coming. The Jihad attack was the precursor to something better, I just spent the last three months in theatre and I can assure you that the next two weeks will bring some startling activities.