Political Crossfire Forums

[LostSoul3412]

Politics Mstr wrote: It's her body? We're talking about a baby here! Forget the women, this is a whole new life (or at least a whole new oppurtunity for life)!

So you would fight to save an embryo, but once it is born you would discard it as nothing?

Politics Mstr wrote: Stop being so self absorbed.

Self absorbed in allowing the choice of another individual? Have you ever been pregnant? Have you ever been in a situation of becoming a parent? If not, stop being self absorbed by denying the rights of others because you don't like it.

Politics Mstr wrote: From day one of pregnancy a woman is given the responsibility of a parent.

No, the day the mother chooses to be a parent, she puts those responsibilities upon herself. No one can put responsibility on the individual but the individual itself.

Politics Mstr wrote: The baby developing inside of her is an oppurunity for society to evolve into a better place!

Or crash and burn. Arguments of possibilities have been debated here many times, and have always come down to elimination of speculation as an argument tool.

Politics Mstr wrote: Don't tell me every orphaned child turned out a mess.

Of course not all, only most.

Politics Mstr wrote: Just think about all the famouse people who had hard lives growing up but turned out to be people who massively changed the well-being of society!

Such as...?

Politics Mstr wrote: Women have no right to just assume that their kid is going to turn out badly.

The issue isn't how the child is going to turn out, the issue is whether or not the child will turn out at all. I highly doubt that most potential mothers have abortions because they are afraid of their future child's life. Most have an abortion because they do not want a child at all (for the time being).

Politics Mstr wrote: Destiny is not their decision.

Nor is it your's. You cannot determine the destiny of another individual, potential or otherwise. Just because you do not like the abortion of an embryo, does not give you right to argue that embryo's "destiny".

[WsTxRedRaider06]

Quote: Most have an abortion because they do not want a child at all (for the time being).


There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

[8810385]

LostSoul3412 wrote: 8810385 wrote: The point I wanted to make is that if abortion is made illegal, then there will be more unwanted kids, population, and crime.

I don't necessarily agree with your logic, but I can still follow it. Unwanted children would be the direct result of making abortions illegal, since there are abortions done to eliminate an unwanted embryo. From that, population would rise due to the number of children born, and that would also increase crime numbers simply by having more people.

But again, while I can understand where you're coming from, I don't know if I necessarily agree with your claims...

overpopulation, yes. and also the fact that there will be a population of unwanted kids who are more likely to end up in group homes and unadopted. parentless kids are more likely to be criminals.

[The Grandmaster]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Quote: Most have an abortion because they do not want a child at all (for the time being).


There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

Choosing not to have sex is also not 100% effective. Unless you are going to tell the poor girl who was raped and got pregnant that "she should have been more careful."

[LostSoul3412]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

No, only for the invasion of the individual's sexual life. Leave the sexual relations of the individual out of this debate. You can argue that conception creates "life", and I will gladly argue that point, but I will not violate the individual by interfering with their personal, sexual relations. That is neither mine, nor your, business.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

The Grandmaster wrote: WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Quote: Most have an abortion because they do not want a child at all (for the time being).


There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

Choosing not to have sex is also not 100% effective. Unless you are going to tell the poor girl who was raped and got pregnant that "she should have been more careful."

The post which I respoded to has nothing to do, or says anything at all about rape. There are other threads and posts that pertain to abortion in cases of rape, this was not one of them.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

LostSoul3412 wrote: WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

No, only for the invasion of the individual's sexual life. Leave the sexual relations of the individual out of this debate. You can argue that conception creates "life", and I will gladly argue that point, but I will not violate the individual by interfering with their personal, sexual relations. That is neither mine, nor your, business.

So you would not urge people to be safer and to use protection? Obviously better sexual education and controceptive education would reduce the need for abortion, so would you not pry into ones sex life and urge them to be safe, use protection, and become better educated?

The sexual relations of the individual are the sole cause for the abortion. Without the sexual relations, there would be no abortion. You cant leave the sexual relations out of the debate, for they are the only reason there is a debate in the first place when it comes to abortion on demand. When debating an issue, you cant ignore what caused that issue, which without, there would be no issue in the first place. No, I do not feel the need to control ones sexual habbits, or tell people when and where they can have sex. It is, as you say, none of my business. But I wish to take the choice away from them to end the life of the unborn, which directly resulted from their own, personal decision to enguage in sexual relations. My post was simply stating that, if one does not want a child, there are other ways to avoid this outcome besides abortion. Abstain from sex, or practice extremely safe sex. These things prevent, or at least greatly reduce the need for abortion.

[The Grandmaster]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Quote: Most have an abortion because they do not want a child at all (for the time being).


There is a way to avoid this.....Either dont have sex, or use every precaution necessary in order to prevent the formation of new life. The only way to be 100% sure, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex....Your soultion involves something dying. My solution involves no death.

Choosing not to have sex is also not 100% effective. Unless you are going to tell the poor girl who was raped and got pregnant that "she should have been more careful."

The post which I respoded to has nothing to do, or says anything at all about rape.

Irrelevant. You claimed that the only way to be 100% sure in preventing "the formation of a new life" is to not have sex before you are ready. Anyone would understand you mean abstinance by this. Your claim is false, because there is no 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy. A girl can be dead set on not having sex until marriage or whatever, and be forced into sex and pregnancy despite this. Despite her will to prevent it, it happens to some. There is no 100% effective means.

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: There are other threads and posts that pertain to abortion in cases of rape, this was not one of them.

:lol: I am more aware of the other threads on abortion on this forum that you. My posts in just abortion are more than 10x your entire post count. :wink:

[LostSoul3412]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: So you would not urge people to be safer and to use protection? Obviously better sexual education and controceptive education would reduce the need for abortion, so would you not pry into ones sex life and urge them to be safe, use protection, and become better educated?

The sexual relations of the individual are the sole cause for the abortion. Without the sexual relations, there would be no abortion. You cant leave the sexual relations out of the debate, for they are the only reason there is a debate in the first place when it comes to abortion on demand. When debating an issue, you cant ignore what caused that issue, which without, there would be no issue in the first place. No, I do not feel the need to control ones sexual habbits, or tell people when and where they can have sex. It is, as you say, none of my business. But I wish to take the choice away from them to end the life of the unborn, which directly resulted from their own, personal decision to enguage in sexual relations. My post was simply stating that, if one does not want a child, there are other ways to avoid this outcome besides abortion. Abstain from sex, or practice extremely safe sex. These things prevent, or at least greatly reduce the need for abortion.

There is a difference between education an condemning. I have no problem with attempting to influence, or providing information or contraceptives in public schools (in fact, I would support that), but the issue I have is attempting to push the issue into law.

As far as sexual invasion goes, it is an invasion of the individual's life to condemn them for not using a condom, or some other form of contraceptive. That is their business, not yours. You can educate and provide, but you cannot condemn their actions.

[WsTxRedRaider06]

Quote: Irrelevant. You claimed that the only way to be 100% sure in preventing "the formation of a new life" is to not have sex before you are ready. Anyone would understand you mean abstinance by this. Your claim is false, because there is no 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy. A girl can be dead set on not having sex until marriage or whatever, and be forced into sex and pregnancy despite this. Despite her will to prevent it, it happens to some. There is no 100% effective means.


Very well, I will re-word my claim.....

"The only way to be 100% sure, aside from forced sexual relations, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex.."

[LostSoul3412]

WsTxRedRaider06 wrote: Very well, I will re-word my claim.....

"The only way to be 100% sure, aside from forced sexual relations, is not to have sex before you are ready, at the very least, practice very safe sex.."

As true as that may be, it still falls under the clause of your other argument. True in a vacuum, impossible in reality. As true as that is, you cannot force people to use contraceptives, and also, contraceptives are not always effective. Even a birth control pill, which is the most effective form of birth control, is only 99% effective at preventing pregnancy. Most people who engage in sexual relations believe they are ready for such actions, even if they are not ready to have a child. Regardless, that is interfering with the intentions of one's sexual relationships, which is none of our business.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Also, be careful about your aim when you're dry-humping your girlfriend. It has happened.

EDIT: The point is to say that sometimes sh*t happens that you can't rationally expect. The option should be safe and available, although I would like to see it used as infrequently as possible.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: which is none of our business This privacy argument is rediculous. Hey can I kill you? But come over into this closet first I dont want anyone to see.

[LostSoul3412]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: which is none of our business This privacy argument is rediculous. Hey can I kill you? But come over into this closet first I dont want anyone to see.

What relationship does your attempt at murdering me have to do with sexual intentions?

Unless, of course, you're a necrophiliac.

[AllAmericanMan]

Quote: What relationship does your attempt at murdering me have to do with sexual intentions? The relationship is obviously in abortion and murder. Which is the topic of this forum. You want to keep sex out of the debate and that is ludicrous. Sex begins a new life and if you cant handle that dont debate abortion.

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: which is none of our business This privacy argument is rediculous. Yes, pro-lifers tend to s**t on the US Constitution in a very unamerican way. Thanks for confirming this.

[steen]

AllAmericanMan wrote: Quote: What relationship does your attempt at murdering me have to do with sexual intentions? The relationship is obviously in abortion and murder. Not at all, actually, your silly claims none withstanding.

Quote: Sex begins a new life and if you cant handle that dont debate abortion. Oh, how very ignorant of you. Sex also do NOT start new life, and new life is started WITHOUT sex. So your silly and absolutist claim merely underscores your simplistic ignorance.

[LostSoul3412]

AllAmericanMan wrote: The relationship is obviously in abortion and murder.

No death = no murder. No crime = no murder.

AllAmericanMan wrote: Which is the topic of this forum. You want to keep sex out of the debate and that is ludicrous.

Why, can't prove your arguments though means that don't completely violate the privacy of another's bedroom?

AllAmericanMan wrote: Sex begins a new life and if you cant handle that dont debate abortion.

And if you cannot handle respect for another's privacy, then you may want to reconsider your own privacy. I can "handle" the debate, but I morally choose not the invade the privacy of another individual's sexual relations/intentions/practices. In my opinion, abortion is an issue that can be discussed and argued outside of the bedroom.

[Plodder]

Quote: Yes, pro-lifers tend to s**t on the US Constitution in a very unamerican way. Thanks for confirming this. How? you pro death people take the right to life away, the most important right as all other rights derive from it.